'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread

[dj11]

Here is a quick link.

Some of the indicted bankers and processors are challenging the DOJ's position.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanv...n-on-online-poker-with-powerful-legal-papers/

Good for them. They are putting up a fight.

John Campos, and Chad Elie = heroes.

 

[islandtime2]

John Campos, and Chad Elie = heroes.

It is an interesting argument. They were not "gambling Sites" as defined by the UIEGA since poker is not listed and the fraud indictments are baseless as the banks were not "harmed" since they actually made money not lost money. Gee so the only ones harmed were us by the DOJ crackdown - thanks for looking out for us Mr. Holder.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Canadians had no reason to worry about their funds, they were playing on a licensed, legal site. Even if the sites were fined (and only deposits were covered by the UIGEA) there was no reason to believe foreign funds were in jeopardy.



While the payments to owners may have been excessive, they were not illegal and occurred BEFORE black friday. We will never know whether it was right or not. The DOJ bets on all their seizures never seeing the light of the courtroom.



THEY BOTH ARE. DOJ claims they have over 300M of FTP funds, since a majority were seized from payment processors and by setting up fake payment processors, there is no doubt those funds are PLAYERS FUNDS.

Period.

Thank-you !!

 

[cAPSLOCK]

THEY BOTH ARE. DOJ claims they have over 300M of FTP funds, since a majority were seized from payment processors and by setting up fake payment processors, there is no doubt those funds are PLAYERS FUNDS.

Period.

Then why was pokerstars able to have segregated player funds released while FTP was not?

That part makes your assertion make much less sense.

Don't get me wrong... I am playing devil's advocate somewhat. I am not a fan of the DOJ's actions but it is obvious FTP's shady money handling has led to this disaster while Pokerstars management did what they promised and were in fact able to return player funds.

 

[Charade You Are]

Then why was Pokerstars able to have segregated player funds released while FTP was not?

That part makes your assertion make much less sense.

Simple answer: FTP did NOT segregate player funds.

And I'm not apologizing for FTP. At best they made horrible management decisions, at worst they were stealing players money. Crediting players accounts to the tune of $140M in uncollected deposits was a terrible idea as was not segregating funds. But I'm not letting the DOJ off the hook either. They have millions in players funds and it should be returned.

Pokerstars license required segregated funds and supposedly had fewer payment processor and huge uncollected deposit problems.

FTP's license did not require segregated funds, and they had massive uncollected player deposits due to payment processor issues.

Reports are that $331M has been seized from FTP in total. The DOJ seized $115M before Black Friday ($42M from Tzvetkoff the crooked payment processor). Any money seized from payment processors are player funds and since FTP didn't segregate player funds, then some of the money seized from bank accounts are also player funds.

 

[Charade You Are]

It is an interesting argument. They were not "Gambling Sites" as defined by the UIEGA since poker is not listed and the fraud indictments are baseless as the banks were not "harmed" since they actually made money not lost money. Gee so the only ones harmed were us by the DOJ crackdown - thanks for looking out for us Mr. Holder.

Who ever thought Holder was looking out for us? I got a temporary ban on facebook for posting my Black Friday thoughts on the DOJ page.

Those arguments sound so familiar... oh I know where I read them on 30 Apr.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...d-fallout-megathread-196955/post-1735507.html

Wonder if they are the same lawyers?

 

[stooopid]

Uncollected deposits -- asking one more time

I do realize most of the chat in this thread is about collecting funds which players still have in their Full Tilt accounts. My inquiry is quite the opposite.

I have asked this before. I have inquired here on this Forum. I have asked lawyer-friends. I even had the occasion to ask an “upper-level” lawyer who works for Bank of America. Alas, I have yet to receive a definitive reply.

The facts. Between January and March of 2011 several “quick deposits” were made to Full Tilt. Every deposit was immediately credited to the FT account. None of the deposits were processed through (debited from) the bank.

(It appears that, around this time frame, the person who was “facilitating” these transactions in Nevada was … “put out of business.”)

The question. Will Full Tilt ever, ever, EVER be able to collect on these (arguably illegal) yet-to-be-processed transactions?

As mentioned, I have previously asked before. I am posting/asking just one more time on Cardschat and will hereafter cease to do so.

Thanks for any constructive, legally sound, comments.

 

[absoluthamm]

I do realize most of the chat in this thread is about collecting funds which players still have in their Full Tilt accounts. My inquiry is quite the opposite.

I have asked this before. I have inquired here on this Forum. I have asked lawyer-friends. I even had the occasion to ask an “upper-level” lawyer who works for Bank of America. Alas, I have yet to receive a definitive reply.

The facts. Between January and March of 2011 several “quick deposits” were made to Full Tilt. Every deposit was immediately credited to the FT account. None of the deposits were processed through (debited from) the bank.

(It appears that, around this time frame, the person who was “facilitating” these transactions in Nevada was … “put out of business.”)

The question. Will Full Tilt ever, ever, EVER be able to collect on these (arguably illegal) yet-to-be-processed transactions?

As mentioned, I have previously asked before. I am posting/asking just one more time on Cardschat and will hereafter cease to do so.

Thanks for any constructive, legally sound, comments.

It's been asked and talked about multiple times, but no definite answer can be given just in the same way that no definite answer can be given on if or when we will ever actually see our FT money again, if ever. I, personally, think that those transactions will never go through, at least for the US players, because when/if a deal is finally made between the DoJ(regarding the banks) and FT, I am 99% sure it will be made for a one-way transaction, just like how Stars was. You can get your money out, then go away. They won't allow FT to cash in on the fact that they were doing something "illegal" just so that they can make good on those Quick Deposits as it is FT's fault that they gave the money up front without confirming the deposit in the first place.

Now one thing that I do think will happen, is that those players that had the Quick Deposit go through without the actual debit from their account, will have that amount subtracted from what is in their accounts and only be able to withdrawal to that amount, which, in my opinion is fair(er). If they lost all of their free money, then they won't be further charged for it as once again it's FT's own fault. That's how I think it will go down, but once again... you haven't gotten a definite answer because it's all speculation right now.

 

[xdeucesx]

It's been asked and talked about multiple times, but no definite answer can be given just in the same way that no definite answer can be given on if or when we will ever actually see our FT money again, if ever. I, personally, think that those transactions will never go through, at least for the US players, because when/if a deal is finally made between the DoJ(regarding the banks) and FT, I am 99% sure it will be made for a one-way transaction, just like how Stars was. You can get your money out, then go away. They won't allow FT to cash in on the fact that they were doing something "illegal" just so that they can make good on those Quick Deposits as it is FT's fault that they gave the money up front without confirming the deposit in the first place.

Now one thing that I do think will happen, is that those players that had the Quick Deposit go through without the actual debit from their account, will have that amount subtracted from what is in their accounts and only be able to withdrawal to that amount, which, in my opinion is fair(er). If they lost all of their free money, then they won't be further charged for it as once again it's FT's own fault. That's how I think it will go down, but once again... you haven't gotten a definite answer because it's all speculation right now.

+1 for rational decisions

 

[stooopid]

They won't allow FT to cash in on the fact that they were doing something "illegal" just so that they can make good on those Quick Deposits as it is FT's fault that they gave the money up front without confirming the deposit in the first place.

Thanks for the reply. That's the way I see it.... The DoJ is not going to allow something "illegal then" to be "legal now."

Some have suggested closing one's bank account but if there is no logical or legal reason to do so then why do it? Yet, one simply does not want to have to worry about this matter for years to come!

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[the Styb]

I gotta admit, this one made me look twice. Had Yahoo Mail gained sentience and begun to comment on posts…?

Dear the Styb,

You are subscribed to the thread "'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread" by xdeuceswild81xx, there have been 2 post(s) to this thread, the last poster was stooopid.

 

[OzExorcist]

Now one thing that I do think will happen, is that those players that had the Quick Deposit go through without the actual debit from their account, will have that amount subtracted from what is in their accounts and only be able to withdrawal to that amount, which, in my opinion is fair(er). If they lost all of their free money, then they won't be further charged for it as once again it's FT's own fault.

Pretty sure I've read elsewhere that they're going to do that, but doing it will only account for about $9 million of the total shortfall - meaning those players lost the other $100+ million.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Read about a rumour that deal with Tapie was off but then read another that said talks with DoJ were going well & would continue this Tues.(Oct.11).

Then I received an email from a rakeback site, suggesting that > "Fulltilts 'new owner' is cooking up quite a stunt to get players back into the poker client: A $30,000,000guar. tournament with first round played with 30,000 players as online poker. At the frigging Wembley Stadium in UK! Tickets cannot supposedly be bought directly, and need to be won from online satellites only at FTP (currently still closed for business). The event will last 5 consecutive days to be decided later, but between August 15th to October 9th 2012."

There was/is also a trailer with how Fulltilt envisons the Tournament. WTF is this?
http://www.rakeback.com/full-tilt-p...31383&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Emailvision

 

[KerouacsDog]

man that sounds epic if it happens.
but to tell you the truth, I just want my money back....now!

 

[Tom1559]

I have seen the video of this and it is just bonkers.

 

[KerouacsDog]

I have seen the video of this and it is just bonkers.

link please?

 

[Charade You Are]

There was/is also a trailer with how Fulltilt envisons the Tournament. WTF is this?
http://www.rakeback.com/full-tilt-p...31383&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Emailvision

Holy %$%$#%^#$%!!!!!! How are they going to keep players from seeing others hole cards?

Another link: http://www.ispt.com/

ISPT founded by Bernard Tapie http://www.ispt.com/index.php?lang=us&page=fondateur.php&PHPSESSID=d82b7fb1be3e7784781e65f99b37435a

ISPT is a poker tournament organized each year in internationally renowned stadiums.

ISPT is reserved for players qualified, according to the current legal requirements, from its exclusive partners, online poker websites and casino operators selected by ISPT.
The selection of these partners is on course, and will end in december 2011, the first qualification cessions starting in january 2012.

Wembley Stadium and ISPT Holding, the mother company of ISPT signed on 16 september 2011 a renting contract dedicated to the First Edition of ISPT.

 

[KerouacsDog]

sick if it happens, and I wanna be there

 

[absoluthamm]

That would be insanity.

 

[the Styb]

Everyone sobered up and chomping at the bit for the next swig of the new bottle… good "luck" suckers. GBT will make a mint off of ya!

 

[woody19]

that is crazzzzzzzy would luv to be there not 2 far from were i live haha

 

[Poker Orifice]

Everyone sobered up and chomping at the bit for the next swig of the new bottle… good "luck" suckers. GBT will make a mint off of ya!

Interesting interpretation.... can't say I'm 'chomping at the bit' but can say I'm looking forward to playing again on FTP (if it happens).
Don't think they'll be making a 'mint' off of me - FTP was always profitable for me. More than anything though, I really miss the FTP software/setup (ie. games available, tourney/sng structures, RB, etc.).

 

[KerouacsDog]

Interesting interpretation.... can't say I'm 'chomping at the bit' but can say I'm looking forward to playing again on FTP (if it happens).
Don't think they'll be making a 'mint' off of me - FTP was always profitable for me. More than anything though, I really miss the FTP software/setup (ie. games available, tourney/sng structures, RB, etc.).

+1

 

[Poker Orifice]

Everyone sobered up and chomping at the bit for the next swig of the new bottle… good "luck" suckers. GBT will make a mint off of ya!

Maybe I'm wrong... maybe you're right? (maybe I'm just in denial?.. but would obviously not even know it if I was).
You seem to be pretty knowledgeable/enthusiastic about this thread/topic. Out of curiousity (& cuz of a post on another forum) I had to take a look -> this is the 'only' CC thread you've posted on in the past 13mos., & over 80posts on it!

 

[WVHillbilly]

Maybe I'm wrong... maybe you're right? (maybe I'm just in denial?.. but would obviously not even know it if I was).
You seem to be pretty knowledgeable/enthusiastic about this thread/topic. Out of curiousity (& cuz of a post on another forum) I had to take a look -> this is the 'only' CC thread you've posted on in the past 13mos., & over 80posts on it!

Well he does have ALMOST $1 tied up on FTP to be concerned about!