'Black Friday' and associated fallout megathread

[absoluthamm]

I really have a strong feeling that even if something ever comes out of this with our government, that it will never be a global play scenario. They will see that as too much of a pain in the ass to control who is from the US and who isn't for taxing purposes(In reality, it wouldn't be that hard, just one extra variable in the player database, but lezbihonest, it's the government).

It is my ultimate hope as well, but I am not counting on it.

 

[OzExorcist]

are they out of business ONLY in US or their whole operation?

Assuming you're talking about Full Tilt, unless someone buys the company they're out of business worldwide.

 

[xdeucesx]

Unfortunately any bill that might pass will have an opt-out provision as well as massive restrictions on who can get licenses. Personally, I would prefer the pre-UIGEA status, but that's not going to happen. I favor free markets over tightly regulated ones that just grease the palms of legislators and restrict free trade.

Truly though, what states are going to opt-out? When push comes to shove, no state is going to leave that much free $ on the table.

As much as I would favor a free market, it doesn't work for an industry that can't regulate itself. FTP/UB/AP, all have shown that regulations need to be in place.

Obvi, there's more smaller sites who have shut down w/players funds, not on FTP scale, but still, all the more reason it needs to be regulated heavily

 

[Sakina]

Fml WTF fml

 

[imwatcher]

obv i dont know much but what is worse about what FT did than banks?

 

[alaskabill]

obv i dont know much but what is worse about what FT did than banks?

FT wasn't a bank. They had an absolute responsibility to keep players funds intact and available at all times. Think of it this way. You go to a B & M casino and buy chips the casino can't take your deposit and go spend it to pay for a television ad spot. If you come back to the cage to cash out they can't say, "Sorry sir, we spent your money on the ad budget but we'll pay you back "when we're ready" as Howard put it.

It is true that banks don't have nearly all deposits on hand but its also true that they tell you this up front. You know that they are using deposits for investments because that is what banks do to make money.

poker sites are supposed to make their money from the rake and should never,under any circumstances touch the actual deposits.

 

[imwatcher]

It makes sense but at the same time wouldnt ftp keep the funds in a bank? if not surely its less safe, and in a way even that is using the players funds for other things.

 

[dj11]

It is curious to consider that the Full Tilt 'whateveryoucallit' may end up being a very significant thing. Of course online poker will now forever be repaired, but perhaps this will be a cautionary tale for the banking industry as well.

Since Banks make money (out of thin air nearly) when they loan money, a case can be made that after a bank gets established they could, and probably should have enough liquidity to handle any run on that bank.

Not unlike online gaming, the service a bank provides is where they make their monies.

 

[WVHillbilly]

It makes sense but at the same time wouldnt ftp keep the funds in a bank? if not surely its less safe, and in a way even that is using the players funds for other things.

Obviously not.

 

[Charade You Are]

Truly though, what states are going to opt-out? When push comes to shove, no state is going to leave that much free $ on the table.

I'm thinking states with casinos will unless the casinos get a piece. Remember, online poker is a felony in Washington State because they have 27 casinos. They will have to change that law.

None of my Reps or Senators are for online poker and are against expanding gambling, so it's iffy whether the $ will win.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out and hope we get the chance to.

 

[tbdbitl]

I'm thinking states with casinos will unless the casinos get a piece.

I'm patiently waiting for our Casino to open here. Black Friday would have been a lot easier to stomach if the casino that will be 10 minutes from my work place was already open!

 

[Charade You Are]

Fertitta Interactive Announces the Purchase of CyberArts: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...nces-the-purchase-of-cyberarts-132648433.html

Fertitta Interactive was the company that was going to partner with FTP if legislation were to pass in the U.S. That possibility ended on Black Friday. Word is that they will be offering free online play until (if) online gaming legislation is passed.

"This is the right deal for CyberArts and a tremendous opportunity to continue to provide the best online gaming software in the United States," said Chris Derossi, Co-founder of CyberArts and the architect of the company's successful online software.

 

[the Styb]

As far as legalizing online poker, it's already happened in Washington, DC. Don't remember that? Of course not… the bill passed on April 7th, 2011, just eight days before Black Friday! Nothing funnier than the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality of our elected fools!

The Lottery Modernization Act of 2010 passed with a few amendments that include a change in the definition of the term ‘lotteries.’ The bill stipulates that it only includes games of chance as well as the skill-based game of poker.

(Emphasis added.)
http://www.tightpoker.com/news/washington-dc-legalizes-online-poker-2338/

 

[Charade You Are]

Nothing funnier than the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality of our elected fools!

or the religious right:

More people jumping on the bandwagon.

Lasry’s Avenue Capital Group and Trump Entertainment Resorts have teamed up with hopes that the US regulations will allow US companies to provide online poker services in the US for online poker players. Avenue Capital has been in control of Trump Entertainment since last year.

Donald Trump Wants To Get Into Online Poker

The more big money investors get into the game, the higher my hopes of something happen get. They have the $ to line the pockets of Congress. Not to mention that fact that the more sites, the more competition and maybe better incentives.

 

[absoluthamm]

Not to mention that fact that the more sites, the more competition and maybe better incentives.

And smaller player pools on each of the sites when each of the ~1500 B&M casinos in the US want to open their own site.

 

[OzExorcist]

And smaller player pools on each of the sites when each of the ~1500 B&M casinos in the US want to open their own site.

FWIW I'd be surprised if that happens. What you'll probably get is the big B&M players (Wynn, Caesars/wsop, Fertitta/Station Casinos) taking the bulk of the market just like Stars / Full Tilt did before Black Friday with some smaller sites muddling around for who knows what reason.

The reality is that it'd likely be unprofitable for Random Indian Casino B to launch an online site in their own right. So unless they were just running a skin on someone else's software (or they're incredibly stupid) I don't see it happening. Sure there'll be a lot of smaller sites but I think it'll shake out to something like we've got now: a few big players and the rest just picking up the crumbs.

 

[absoluthamm]

I wasn't really thinking that would happen. Obviously that would be incredibly stupid for the little guys to do. I was just making a point that there will probably be a bunch of smaller sites, and they will almost definitely only be accessible to Americans, so that will cut out a huge portion of the player pool that was able to be taken advantage of with the international sites.

 

[OzExorcist]

Sure - and obviously the best-case scenario for everyone is that we all have access to a global player pool.

One thought though, the situation might not be as grim as you think, even if you are limited just to US players. IMO there's every reason to think that the US market will expand well beyond the size that it was pre-Black Friday, because there will be plenty of players out there that avoided playing in the past due to the questionable legal situation or the difficulty faced in getting funds online. If you're going to be limited to players from just one country, you should probably be happy that the US is that country...

 

[absoluthamm]

Sure - and obviously the best-case scenario for everyone is that we all have access to a global player pool.

One thought though, the situation might not be as grim as you think, even if you are limited just to US players. IMO there's every reason to think that the US market will expand well beyond the size that it was pre-Black Friday, because there will be plenty of players out there that avoided playing in the past due to the questionable legal situation or the difficulty faced in getting funds online. If you're going to be limited to players from just one country, you should probably be happy that the US is that country...

Yea, but I still don't see any site that is only US having near the size like what I could have on FT or Stars. I know I'm being picky, but really, all I want is what I had, no more, no less, but that won't happen.

 

[xdeucesx]

Yea, but I still don't see any site that is only US having near the size like what I could have on FT or Stars. I know I'm being picky, but really, all I want is what I had, no more, no less, but that won't happen.

read my article hamm

it will change your mind

 

[KerouacsDog]

read my article hamm

it will change your mind

link?

 

[xdeucesx]

link?

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/thoughts-future-online-poker-u-s-202953/

its long, but in the 6th comment down I turned it into a PDF file, so it should be easier to read

 

[KerouacsDog]

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/thoughts-future-online-poker-u-s-202953/

its long, but in the 6th comment down I turned it into a PDF file, so it should be easier to read

ok cool will read 2moro, been awake 24 hours now after a nightshift, couldnt take anything heavy in right now.

 

[Charade You Are]

Yet another group that wants to get the whole pie. Guess it's time to accept that nothing is ever done just because it should be.

An article by Indian Country news on poker:

A panel discussion called “An Overview of Internet Gaming Legislation” kicked off the training sessions at the conference, which took place October 17-19 at Mohegan Sun. While a few people voiced an unambiguous “No!” to all proposed Internet gaming legislation, the majority unified behind a more nuanced position developed by NIGA and tribal leaders: Indian country opposes any Internet gaming legislation that doesn’t include protections for tribal sovereignty and tribal gaming. So far none of the known proposed legislation does.

Read more:http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/10/internet-gaming-tops-niga-agenda/

 

[msufan]

Yet another group that wants to get the whole pie. Guess it's time to accept that nothing is ever done just because it should be.

An article by Indian Country news on poker:



Read more:http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/10/internet-gaming-tops-niga-agenda/

What would those protections include? That only tribal groups could start sites? Surely that can't be what they're asking for, can it?