B
Bryan Sanders
Rising Star
Bronze Level
L
lincs
Rising Star
Bronze Level
online poker is not rigged. If by in the sense you mean that the Site had a rigged RNG or has it's own admins or accounts that can see cards or something like that.
The risk to reward for pulling such a scheme is highly unfavorable. Especially over any decent period of time. It's not the site that's out to take your money.
They are, but they do it through rake.
On the other hand though. Players using software IS a concerning issue for online poker... Online Heads-Up and 6-max games have some real unfortunate circumstances surrounding them. Solvers are not so much the issue. They require you to study situations and practice. But when those solvers are automated and turned into a bot - That's not good.
I feel the age of online cash games may come to an end before we know it (as an average joe) But, MTTs I think will still be feasible.
The risk to reward for pulling such a scheme is highly unfavorable. Especially over any decent period of time. It's not the site that's out to take your money.
They are, but they do it through rake.
On the other hand though. Players using software IS a concerning issue for online poker... Online Heads-Up and 6-max games have some real unfortunate circumstances surrounding them. Solvers are not so much the issue. They require you to study situations and practice. But when those solvers are automated and turned into a bot - That's not good.
I feel the age of online cash games may come to an end before we know it (as an average joe) But, MTTs I think will still be feasible.
mpelletier92
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Nikolay Nakhaev
Legend
Silver Level
I completely agree with you.
rather, the matter is the untidiness of some players, and the generators are certified and the matter is mainly not about them
puzzlefish
student of the donk arts
Loyaler
The only certification made for any of the generators is that they generate the right frequency of cards and combinations on the community board. There is no testing done beyond that. If you don't see the problem in that, think about other possible measurements that are not being made.. i.e. how often draws show up against other draws, how often a draw is completed simultaneously with another draw (ex. a player hits a flush while another player simultaneously completes their full house), etc. Think about those frequencies and how they are not measured at all in the certification process.
frank174
Legend
Bronze Level
Just go by the wording the english language is pretty clear forced random does not exist you can't be be forced and random at the same time its one or the other so what else could it be possibly made hand against made hand not fixed but guaranteed action, you can make the wording to mean whatever you want.Been playing poker 40 plus years and if its to good to be true it probably is thats online.P.S I would take a live dealer over forced random dealing 100 percent of the time
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vladdracul
Enthusiast
Silver Level
betonline
I have won money on Betonline when they had free rolls. I did find out, when I tried to withdraw money, they would not let me until I made a deposit. I asked why I needed to make deposit to withdraw money they said, because. I don't play there much, don't see the point since they ain't gonna pay me but it is actually possible to win some there. I only free roll online cuz I don't trust them and I know I probably ain't gonna get paid if I win, but I enjoy poker, not so much the shady operators but I like playing poker.I have been playing free online poker at WSOP and PokerStar and decided to play online real tournaments. I made a long research and decided on one of the most trusted ones Betonline. I have never played yet but I will update you as I try.
I hope they are not rigged)
frank174
Legend
Bronze Level
I play in the 10 10 game at Fallsview a lot and comparing live to online is crazy been going to fallsview for almost 20 years and i've yet to see anyone come close to how people play online. never ever have I seen someone try to 3 bet and squeeze a couple of players out with junk it just doesn't happen and if it did we all be talking and laughing are asses off,there is no comparison live poker to online poker are two different games nowhere near comparible anyone who's played much live knows that,online is fun but trust it as random i'm pretty skeptical
zinzir
Legend
Silver Level
In my opinion there is no way online poker is rigged. Here are the reasons:
1. Rigging a game will benefit some players, not the Poker Room. Online casinos make their money by charging rake, which removes a certain percentage of each pot, regardless of who the winner is. The rake is a highly efficient and 100% guaranteed way of making money, way better than the roulette or Black Jack marginal house advantage, because in those games the house also loses real money, sometimes a lot. In poker the house has virtually no risk.
2. Rigging is illegal, and being discovered would have devastating consequences for the people involved, with asset seizure and most likely jail time. Also, all the internet poker rooms would suffer unparalleled financial losses regardless if they were involved or not in the illegal activity, simply because most players would stop playing the game, at least for a while.
3. Some people suspect the poker sites of altering the software in a way that would reward "bad play", turning underdogs into winners in a non random way. The idea is that the "donks" would deposit more money if they won more often. My question is would a particular poker site's executives risk everything for such a questionable increase in return? And even if the increase in revenue was real and measurable, what about the cost? How much would they have to pay a programmer to design and maintain a highly illegal non random program? How about all the people with knowledge about the rigging, how much more do they need to be payed to maintain secrecy? What if one of those people leaves the company and decides to blackmail his ex colleagues? All these potential situations would make the cost of rigging a site astronomical and there is simply not enough money to be made by such a move to offset the costs, because even though poker sites are highly efficient in extracting money from the tables, there is still quite a limited market in online poker. If you remove the freeroll and micro stakes players from a site, how many players do you see at medium and high stakes tables on ACR or Betonline? Several tables, and mostly the same people sitting at them. The poker sites are a business, and no business man will commit an illegality unless there is clear financial benefit.
4. Just a funny personal observation: most people obsessed by online poker being rigged are the ones mainly playing micro stakes and freerolls.
1. Rigging a game will benefit some players, not the Poker Room. Online casinos make their money by charging rake, which removes a certain percentage of each pot, regardless of who the winner is. The rake is a highly efficient and 100% guaranteed way of making money, way better than the roulette or Black Jack marginal house advantage, because in those games the house also loses real money, sometimes a lot. In poker the house has virtually no risk.
2. Rigging is illegal, and being discovered would have devastating consequences for the people involved, with asset seizure and most likely jail time. Also, all the internet poker rooms would suffer unparalleled financial losses regardless if they were involved or not in the illegal activity, simply because most players would stop playing the game, at least for a while.
3. Some people suspect the poker sites of altering the software in a way that would reward "bad play", turning underdogs into winners in a non random way. The idea is that the "donks" would deposit more money if they won more often. My question is would a particular poker site's executives risk everything for such a questionable increase in return? And even if the increase in revenue was real and measurable, what about the cost? How much would they have to pay a programmer to design and maintain a highly illegal non random program? How about all the people with knowledge about the rigging, how much more do they need to be payed to maintain secrecy? What if one of those people leaves the company and decides to blackmail his ex colleagues? All these potential situations would make the cost of rigging a site astronomical and there is simply not enough money to be made by such a move to offset the costs, because even though poker sites are highly efficient in extracting money from the tables, there is still quite a limited market in online poker. If you remove the freeroll and micro stakes players from a site, how many players do you see at medium and high stakes tables on ACR or Betonline? Several tables, and mostly the same people sitting at them. The poker sites are a business, and no business man will commit an illegality unless there is clear financial benefit.
4. Just a funny personal observation: most people obsessed by online poker being rigged are the ones mainly playing micro stakes and freerolls.
puzzlefish
student of the donk arts
Loyaler
The simplest counterpoint to poker sites having no incentive to rig their random number generators is that it is not necessarily a poker site's decision to do so. It depends on who made the software and who had control of the coding. Let's not even get started on the concept of greed.
Djomla93
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I had my experience on pokerstars but it was not rigged. It was like I played with bot and he anticipated all my moves and change of tactics. :frown:
James_Harrison
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yeah, one of the reasons i moved to this forum from another well known poker forum is because if you include any critical, open minded thinking that has to do with anything other than the RNG being rigged, you get taunted by mods and shills alike.
See to me, when talking about a rig i include things like superusers, bots, colluders, sites closing and not paying (its happened to lots of us many times so why not include it duh) ? I include all of that into the rig equation, so i know its rigged, simply because of the bot reports today and sites of the past closing and not paying me.
If there is computer robot voting or errors in an election can it be considered rigged ? If there is collusion in an election can it be considered rigged ?
See, i dont like to compare people saying someone is better than the next person. But, to not be open minded or think critically is actually worse. Ive studied this, its only college level.
What makes it more interesting is these things that i mentioned superusers, bots, colluders, sites closing and not paying.Some has happened and some is happening currently so to think in your mind these sites are Saints is also flawed.
I am not ashamed in my thinking, i know its correct . There are people out there that will actually try and guilt you psychologically into thinking you are mental when in fact it is the correct way of thinking.
They do not like my way of thinking and try to silence me because its truth, i dont have to lie.
We are up against bots and colluders and people staked, playing with other peoples money my friends this is the harsh reality .. its the friggen truth.
Also some sites might not pay some will and are good sites its the way it is.
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Philwalmsley
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Rigged
ive been play on/off for a few years now... been asked many a time if I’m a bot! But I’m not 🤣 as for rigged?? No I don’t think it is! It’s random but still we all hate losing on the river or to a high set 😤
ive been play on/off for a few years now... been asked many a time if I’m a bot! But I’m not 🤣 as for rigged?? No I don’t think it is! It’s random but still we all hate losing on the river or to a high set 😤
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Homeplanet
Rising Star
Bronze Level
OP; Sophisticated money making software
Online poker is a money making machine and if was not fixed then a few good players would win all the times and this would result in gradually loosing many paying members for the online game!
Maybe is not fixed in a way to make you loose one good hand, but if you come in and start wining a few games or tournaments, then the software will less favour you against other weaker players! I
So if suddenly you felt all you had was 9&2, k&4, 7&2 etc..until you loose all your winning!, its not a “bad day” or bad week! You’ve been flags by the money making sophisticated software.
Online poker is a money making machine and if was not fixed then a few good players would win all the times and this would result in gradually loosing many paying members for the online game!
Maybe is not fixed in a way to make you loose one good hand, but if you come in and start wining a few games or tournaments, then the software will less favour you against other weaker players! I
So if suddenly you felt all you had was 9&2, k&4, 7&2 etc..until you loose all your winning!, its not a “bad day” or bad week! You’ve been flags by the money making sophisticated software.
PackinPat
Rock Star
Silver Level
So this would explain a downturn
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God_Mode_On
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Is this just bad variance or is Party Poker just really rigged?
I have been playing online for no less than 10 years now, first 8 years at PokerStars but since my friends play mostly on partypoker I decided to move to PartyPoker couple years ago.
Ever since I have been experiencing what is like an odd downswing that has been lasing for almost 12 months now.
As things didn't go my way on so many accasions I decided to gather the hand history of the months and doug into manually on all in occasions when I had:
1) A flip
2) A 60 - 40 when I'm ahead
3) A 70 - 30 when I'm ahead
4) A 80 - 20 when I'm ahead
I took me a full week to dig down over a period of 3 months of almost daily play.
The results are quiet shockingly I must say.
1) The flip: A little over 330 occasions: Very very schockingly: Won 20% / lost 75% / split 5%
2) The 60 - 40: 180+ occasions Won 35% / lost 58 /split 7%
3) The 70 - 30: 194 to be exact: This one is shockingly: Won 48% / Lost 42% Split 10% (a lot!!!)
4) The 80 - 20: 140 occasions: This is the only situation that looks normal: Won 75% / Lost 21% Split: 4%.
This is over a span of 3 months of play. It is pretty good to notice that, as far as my 'feelings' go, above results can easily be applied to the months prior except for the first few months at PartyPoker when I in fact run pretty good.
I have never ever experienced such a downswing over such periods at PokerStars in 8 years of play.
Does anyone relate....??? Or is this just extreme variance????
Anyway I'm contemplating going back to PokerStars you can imagine.
I have been playing online for no less than 10 years now, first 8 years at PokerStars but since my friends play mostly on partypoker I decided to move to PartyPoker couple years ago.
Ever since I have been experiencing what is like an odd downswing that has been lasing for almost 12 months now.
As things didn't go my way on so many accasions I decided to gather the hand history of the months and doug into manually on all in occasions when I had:
1) A flip
2) A 60 - 40 when I'm ahead
3) A 70 - 30 when I'm ahead
4) A 80 - 20 when I'm ahead
I took me a full week to dig down over a period of 3 months of almost daily play.
The results are quiet shockingly I must say.
1) The flip: A little over 330 occasions: Very very schockingly: Won 20% / lost 75% / split 5%
2) The 60 - 40: 180+ occasions Won 35% / lost 58 /split 7%
3) The 70 - 30: 194 to be exact: This one is shockingly: Won 48% / Lost 42% Split 10% (a lot!!!)
4) The 80 - 20: 140 occasions: This is the only situation that looks normal: Won 75% / Lost 21% Split: 4%.
This is over a span of 3 months of play. It is pretty good to notice that, as far as my 'feelings' go, above results can easily be applied to the months prior except for the first few months at PartyPoker when I in fact run pretty good.
I have never ever experienced such a downswing over such periods at PokerStars in 8 years of play.
Does anyone relate....??? Or is this just extreme variance????
Anyway I'm contemplating going back to PokerStars you can imagine.
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abwil2
Rock Star
Silver Level
Ive played for 12 years live and despite what some are saying, you wont see in months of live poker what you see in 1 - 9 man SNG Just cause hands are dealt faster doesnt mean more beats should happen 100 hands is 100 hands or 500 is 500 regardless of how fast you get there right.
We must be the few who are at this range for beats
I dont think its rigged for any one player but if the donks or trash hand players dont get rewarded are they going to still play? HELL NO so the sites have everything to gain by keeping them around. Nothing to lose. what reputable company verifies there RNG? seriously?
they pay good money to keep the programmers quiet and they sign a no disclosure clause so you will never hear one talking til the statue wears out.
The whole world has had GREED taking it over its just naive to think poker sites have NOTHING to gain LMFAO whos going to say anything , whos going to verify anything. No one jsut as no one can say they know for sure it isnt rigged for max action and to keep as many players around as possible
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God_Mode_On
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Exactly this is what I have experienced playing at PartyPoker ever since I started playing there 2 years ago.
What donks obviously do is typically finding themselves in situations where they are the underdog calling off way too wide in various situations so there they are once again holding their AJ against AK for instance....
But hey... Why not bend the equity/outcome a little to favour the donks keeping them around longer to feed the raking machine...
Makes sense no questions asked from my point of view.
G
God_Mode_On
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Candidate for being the best input I've ever read in any 'RIGGED' section on any poker forum.
And the best argument for poker sites being rigged.
I have in fact asked multiple sites to show me any publication of such auditing by these so called "certified companies". Not a single response so far. Think about that.
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God_Mode_On
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Just wondering... Anybody else out here who believes that PartyPoker is "way more rigged" than PokerStars? (In my opinion PokerStars isn't even rigged at all) There such a huge difference in what I have experienced between the two I just wonder if anybody relates...
puzzlefish
student of the donk arts
Loyaler
I think any site can control your experience of variance on that site. Just because your variance on Stars feels normal to you, doesn't mean it's the same for all other accounts. As for Party, it's the same as pretty much all of the other sites I have played on (Stars, 888, BetOnline/Sportsbetting).
PackinPat
Rock Star
Silver Level
those numbers are eye opening. I've been on a very long down turn also, but on ACR. I haven't done research like you but it just seems I'm losing with the best way too often