Is Online Poker Rigged?

[zikeq]

Hello, this is a very interesting topic for many users. I often came across unlimited arms at first glance. But this is just not the experience of the players. Many of those who play online have never played live sitting at a table with other players. This often happens in a live game.

 

[TheChosenDragon]

For a long time, I was thinking the same.
But it's all about the luck and how to deal with it if you keep being unlucky.
I haven't had a good run for 2 months, but still manged to be break-even.
But as soon as the good runs come, you raise like hell.

 

[puzzlefish]

иногда начинаешь задумываться на эту тему,особенно когда начинают происходить некоторые не понятные действия-например когда сидишь с J A а на столе 7 10 Q K игрок идет олин я естественно отвечаю,он открывает 7 K и последней картой приходит как вы думаете что????- К!!!! либо когда у вас A A а банк забирают с 7 3
докупая вторую пару,странновато или после выигрыша в турнире при входе в другой турнир начинается катастрофическое невезение с топовой картой,либо идет полная радуга.

Basically the observation is that the villain almost knows what card is coming next even if they are behind, so they shove and it hits. Different sites have slightly different algorithms, but there are some commonalities such as correlations with the last player to win with the stone cold nut hand, almost as if the random number generator has a schedule to follow with a particular position at the table.

 

[BrewCrewWI]

I don't know on rigged.

What I will say is the Random Card Generators seem to cycle a program that repeats in a short period of time. But not the cards, more in players. What I mean is this.

I play 2 tables at a time. More often than not tourneys that start at same time or 30min later or 1hour later. Pay attention to those two tables open and it gets so weird to me how I'll run bad, bad, bad hands dealt for 15 to 20min time in a row. Then boom at the same moment, hand being dealt I'll have PPs that are occasionally even the same for both tables. (88 or 77)
Seeing KQ KJ simultaneously both suited.

I've also noticed a sorta trap series of scenarios occur so often. Win a couple hands, sitting pretty. Fold the next hand seeing an allin. That player loses, Next hand he goes allin and I look down to a small PP or A10 suited most often or not. Since this guy is allin more often than not there's a call and I see the hand end if I didn't call. But this is what happens. If I'm calling this player always has better A JQK and wins on draw out. Never hitting. Or I fold I see the bad matchup I just avoided and sure enough if I played I'd have lost.

Another thing I run in to is any open straight draw I play Never gets there. It's like the software has a 0% guaranteed outcome on the open end straight hitting. But if I happen to be Allin on like a KJ Q10 ten and am gutshot come turn, I seem to hit this straight or my opponents especially. Gut Shots hit far far too often vs Open ended.

Try it sometime. Play 2 tourneys at once and watch how similar certain sequences play out. Both tables being dealt a good hand at same time when neither had a playable dealt in 5-7 hands. How often when playing an open end straight draw do you hit?
How about when you're chip leader at the table and in a matter of 3 hands you are bad beat calling a small allin with a good starting hand?

So I think the scenarios are rigged by the card generators. BB short stack getting a top 20 shove it all in hand facing the table chip leader who raised you all in and happens to have either the higher kicker, higher PP, or the lower kicker and sucks out on the turn...it has to always be the turn.

Sometimes I feel I can tell what is about to happen and make preflop folds that I normally wouldn't fold on that feeling and see a hand play out and I was right to fold because how the board went and I'd have lost the better starting hand or knew that short stack was about to be dealt a monster hand. Or chip leader was going to be dealt a better hand.

 

[Hemified]

Yea it's always when were losing do we think about it. I don't think there is but you never know.

 

[deeznutzz]

I think at some of the smaller sites it's very probably that the games are fixed but at the larger and more reputable sites like poker stars and 888 it is extremely unlikely. Their businesses extend well beyond just their online poker. There is no way they would risk their billion dollar empires just to make a few extra bucks

 

[puzzlefish]

I think at some of the smaller sites it's very probably that the games are fixed but at the larger and more reputable sites like Poker Stars and 888 it is extremely unlikely. Their businesses extend well beyond just their online poker. There is no way they would risk their billion dollar empires just to make a few extra bucks

History has shown otherwise countless times.

 

[puzzlefish]

I don't know on rigged.

What I will say is the Random Card Generators seem to cycle a program that repeats in a short period of time. But not the cards, more in players. What I mean is this.

I play 2 tables at a time. More often than not tourneys that start at same time or 30min later or 1hour later. Pay attention to those two tables open and it gets so weird to me how I'll run bad, bad, bad hands dealt for 15 to 20min time in a row. Then boom at the same moment, hand being dealt I'll have PPs that are occasionally even the same for both tables. (88 or 77)
Seeing KQ KJ simultaneously both suited.

I've also noticed a sorta trap series of scenarios occur so often. Win a couple hands, sitting pretty. Fold the next hand seeing an allin. That player loses, Next hand he goes allin and I look down to a small PP or A10 suited most often or not. Since this guy is allin more often than not there's a call and I see the hand end if I didn't call. But this is what happens. If I'm calling this player always has better A JQK and wins on draw out. Never hitting. Or I fold I see the bad matchup I just avoided and sure enough if I played I'd have lost.

Another thing I run in to is any open straight draw I play Never gets there. It's like the software has a 0% guaranteed outcome on the open end straight hitting. But if I happen to be Allin on like a KJ Q10 ten and am gutshot come turn, I seem to hit this straight or my opponents especially. Gut Shots hit far far too often vs Open ended.

Try it sometime. Play 2 tourneys at once and watch how similar certain sequences play out. Both tables being dealt a good hand at same time when neither had a playable dealt in 5-7 hands. How often when playing an open end straight draw do you hit?
How about when you're chip leader at the table and in a matter of 3 hands you are bad beat calling a small allin with a good starting hand?

So I think the scenarios are rigged by the card generators. BB short stack getting a top 20 shove it all in hand facing the table chip leader who raised you all in and happens to have either the higher kicker, higher PP, or the lower kicker and sucks out on the turn...it has to always be the turn.

Sometimes I feel I can tell what is about to happen and make preflop folds that I normally wouldn't fold on that feeling and see a hand play out and I was right to fold because how the board went and I'd have lost the better starting hand or knew that short stack was about to be dealt a monster hand. Or chip leader was going to be dealt a better hand.

Beyond these observations, which I can confirm I have made as well, you can also observe hints in the sequences of hands being dealt to players. For example, on 888, you are more likely to see monsters on the third hand after pocket pairs and suited hands. If the initial hand was itself a winning monster hand, the one three hands later is almost always a cooler.

Likewise, if you are minding your own business and folding trash hands for a while and wake up to a high pocket pair, you can take a look at the last three hands to see whether there is anything suggesting that this pocket pair should play well on the upcoming board. If there is nothing in the last three hands (i.e. no suited hands or other premiums that lost) then your pocket pair almost always gets cracked.

So tell me then, if multiple players are observing these phenomena and are applying them to their own play online, what exactly is up with online poker?

 

[digdug0037]

I don't know on rigged.

What I will say is the Random Card Generators seem to cycle a program that repeats in a short period of time. But not the cards, more in players. What I mean is this.

I play 2 tables at a time. More often than not tourneys that start at same time or 30min later or 1hour later. Pay attention to those two tables open and it gets so weird to me how I'll run bad, bad, bad hands dealt for 15 to 20min time in a row. Then boom at the same moment, hand being dealt I'll have PPs that are occasionally even the same for both tables. (88 or 77)
Seeing KQ KJ simultaneously both suited.

I've also noticed a sorta trap series of scenarios occur so often. Win a couple hands, sitting pretty. Fold the next hand seeing an allin. That player loses, Next hand he goes allin and I look down to a small PP or A10 suited most often or not. Since this guy is allin more often than not there's a call and I see the hand end if I didn't call. But this is what happens. If I'm calling this player always has better A JQK and wins on draw out. Never hitting. Or I fold I see the bad matchup I just avoided and sure enough if I played I'd have lost.

Another thing I run in to is any open straight draw I play Never gets there. It's like the software has a 0% guaranteed outcome on the open end straight hitting. But if I happen to be Allin on like a KJ Q10 ten and am gutshot come turn, I seem to hit this straight or my opponents especially. Gut Shots hit far far too often vs Open ended.

Try it sometime. Play 2 tourneys at once and watch how similar certain sequences play out. Both tables being dealt a good hand at same time when neither had a playable dealt in 5-7 hands. How often when playing an open end straight draw do you hit?
How about when you're chip leader at the table and in a matter of 3 hands you are bad beat calling a small allin with a good starting hand?

So I think the scenarios are rigged by the card generators. BB short stack getting a top 20 shove it all in hand facing the table chip leader who raised you all in and happens to have either the higher kicker, higher PP, or the lower kicker and sucks out on the turn...it has to always be the turn.

Sometimes I feel I can tell what is about to happen and make preflop folds that I normally wouldn't fold on that feeling and see a hand play out and I was right to fold because how the board went and I'd have lost the better starting hand or knew that short stack was about to be dealt a monster hand. Or chip leader was going to be dealt a better hand.

And another thing I have noticed when I play 2 tables or even 1, like if I fold say a 7 3 the flop will be 337...or it flops on other table..kind of weird the things we see at the tables. I will not say I have not seen some crazy things at live tables though.

 

[jsh169]

Very rigged. Sure you play lot of hands but such weird stuff happens that otherwise impossible

100% lifetime poker loser.

 

[lintsikka]

100% lifetime poker loser.

I wish just in poker but reality is in many sectors of life. I wish i was winner like you

 

[lintsikka]

Just out of curiosity thou...

Has any site ever released their full stats of hands played and how the pokerodds come true with their software?

 

[tomk7788]

Have you seen Lee Jones who used to be the poker manager at pokerstars explain how the Stars RNG works? From what I understand the Stars RNG is 99+% random. Other sites are 85+% random per information I've seen. Randomness or lack of it works both ways. I've gotten it in bad and lucked out and I've lost to many one and 2 outers on the river.

 

[puzzlefish]

That has been posted many times, and yet there is no evidence that this system is actually enabled on the servers of the site as opposed to any of their other backup number generators. Nor is there any guarantee that the hands, while randomly drawn, are not dealt backwards according to a known calculated result (i.e. the software completes the deal all the way to the river, then sends the best hand to a particular player, second best to another, etc. and then re-plays that board).

 

[lintsikka]

I am not even going to figure out how that rng works, out of my league

But like said, they could easily prove at least that there ain't no more bad beats than in live poker by releasing those stats. And why wouldn't they if numbers match?

 

[puzzlefish]

If you aren't going to try to figure it out, someone else will.

 

[lintsikka]

And what that someone gets out of it, if he/she figures it?

 

[gravac]

I don't agree with this guy. I have played live poker, online poker and from my experience in live games there is not so many unbelievable miracle "river" hits like in online, I'm putting stamp on that. Saw so many hands, lose so many times with magic river when there's only 2 cards in the deck left for the other player, cards which make me losing hand. After so much play, changed my approach and in the most cases now I don't let "river" to appear and that result with much more winning then before. After absolutebet, islidur's shared hands which result him losing 4 millions and much more scandals from players and sites, simply I do not trust them. I'm not saying that every site is a scam, but in many there is something weird happening. With "hud's" and all that bull****, double or more players attacking one table I even don't find myself why should I trust them. I think that software need to be re-design and more likely as live play, but at the end no one force us to play is our decision and we must be aware of losing from the "miracle" hands.

 

[lintsikka]

I don't trust softwares or rng. Neither most of people but still i want livedealers via webcam to online tables and i can rest more easily. And it would be good for employement :elefant:

 

[Chachaboy1975]

I think at some of the smaller sites it's very probably that the games are fixed but at the larger and more reputable sites like Poker Stars and 888 it is extremely unlikely. Their businesses extend well beyond just their online poker. There is no way they would risk their billion dollar empires just to make a few extra bucks

You are correct. They wouldnt risk a healthy industry all on the assumption that a programmer will not reveal thier secrets...someone would have to program this cheating software and others would have to do other things to make this possible. I do not believe the huge players online will aloow overt greediness to bring them down....

 

[Chachaboy1975]

Was just watching a WPT Bellagio main event on tv...Final table 3 players left and 4 of a kind was delt twice back to back....i guess now when i see miricle hands online i wont question the software so much....

 

[puzzlefish]

Was just watching a WPT Bellagio main event on tv...Final table 3 players left and 4 of a kind was delt twice back to back....i guess now when i see miricle hands online i wont question the software so much....

Now watch a whole bunch of WPTs and tell us how often that happens. Then check back online and talk about it.

 

[lintsikka]

Was just watching a WPT Bellagio main event on tv...Final table 3 players left and 4 of a kind was delt twice back to back....i guess now when i see miricle hands online i wont question the software so much....

I just read that some dude won millions from lottery. Now that i read that miracles like that can happen, i am going to buy a lot of lottery tickets today :driver:

 

[Chachaboy1975]

I just read that some dude won millions from lottery. Now that i read that miracles like that can happen, i am going to buy a lot of lottery tickets today :driver:

I have never played the lottery. I might start. I bet sports weekly and never win my 10$ bet. 10$ bet to win 30$. And never win. Same as lotto. Except lotto has a bigger prize I will never win also.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Basically the observation is that the villain almost knows what card is coming next even if they are behind, so they shove and it hits. Different sites have slightly different algorithms, but there are some commonalities such as correlations with the last player to win with the stone cold nut hand, almost as if the random number generator has a schedule to follow with a particular position at the table.

It just keeps getting better