T
trent32la
Legend
Bronze Level
Lol @ all the people who think online poker is rigged. It's live poker that is really rigged<<<
Tony Vayer
Visionary
Silver Level
I don't think online poker is rigged. I've never played live poker, but I've seen live streams of big tournaments where players make mistakes. We should not blame the poker sites.
This is well stated in the article:
"Online poker players should realize that it is not beneficial to the online poker site owners to cheat. To knowingly break the law would be professional suicide. There are so many checks and balances, not to mention top ranked poker players on their guard so that the likelihood of one of them smelling a rat and going public would quickly damage the reputation of the poker site. It is important to choose highly reputable online poker sites and choose those that have high levels of play action. Those are good signs that they are high quality operations.The cost to the online poker room would be so great that it would not be in their best interest to run the gamble and risk the liability associated with such a scandal. Many players might say, "But wait, they make so much money that a couple million dollar fine is a slap on their rich hand!" But the reality is that laws and regulations are in place in this modern age of online poker, and the punishment to casinos is much higher than a "slap on the wrist."
This is well stated in the article:
"Online poker players should realize that it is not beneficial to the online poker site owners to cheat. To knowingly break the law would be professional suicide. There are so many checks and balances, not to mention top ranked poker players on their guard so that the likelihood of one of them smelling a rat and going public would quickly damage the reputation of the poker site. It is important to choose highly reputable online poker sites and choose those that have high levels of play action. Those are good signs that they are high quality operations.The cost to the online poker room would be so great that it would not be in their best interest to run the gamble and risk the liability associated with such a scandal. Many players might say, "But wait, they make so much money that a couple million dollar fine is a slap on their rich hand!" But the reality is that laws and regulations are in place in this modern age of online poker, and the punishment to casinos is much higher than a "slap on the wrist."
Dejange
CC Delija
Loyaler
Vfranks
Legend
Silver Level
I also always wonder if the people that accuse cheating/super-using have played live, because I have seen a lot of crazy stuff happen live as well. Sure someone could still cheat at live poker, but all the crazy stuff you see, especially at lower limits with actual dealers, can't be chalked up as cheating lol. People just don't like to admit their mistakes, or take a good look at their game and try to improve, IMO, and I am guilty of that too sometimes (heh 
).
).
quick
Legend
Silver Level
I agree 100% that having experience playing live poker (esp in a casino) gives a solid perspective on how many wild and crazy beats and things can happen in a hand of poker. I can literally see a bad beat online and recall a time live where a similar situation occurred. It feels more unbelievable online because more hands per hour means more chances to get rocked by 2 outers on the river.
If you don't think there's people playing live casino poker who won't shove A3o in early position pre flop, or chase runner runner flush draws 4 way with Q4s , or chase that runner runner gutshot straight with less then 2:1 odds every street...it's like seeing online poker in a real life setting
As for the action flop theory. Even I used to think it was possible but then I asked myself "as long as there's players like I mentioned above, willing to play any two cards and chase so many things, why does the site need to risk "rigging" the game for bigger action when the players are building the action themselves?"
The only part I disagree on as to why online poker likely isn't rigged is the "legal" ramifications. Here's why: One of the biggest online poker markets in the world (USA) has been in a gray area of online poker operations for over 7 years and yet sites continue to operate from offshore in questionable areas and under questionable "auditing." Players continue to play there and some even do well and withdrawal regularly. That said, if we consider only "legal" ramifications as an inspiration to "keep the card shuffles honest," most of these sites have zero legal ramifications if they "rig" the game so no deterrent there. However, money talks , so even if they aren't beholden by legal standards, business 101 says it'd be real bad for business to rig the cards and the action. Why risk the easy cash flow of rake from players 24/7 filling your tables for a few extra cents in rake every hand? Yeah it adds up...but it's all gone quick if people find out the deal is rigged. So these gray area sites get to operate without true legal/auditing oversight while making money and money is the motive so better to stay in business then risk losing your entire customer base in a scandal while also attracting unwanted legal attention. It's one of the same reasons many companies "do good" things like donations or charitable initiatives...sure it's a goodwill gesture and helps things...but it also keeps customers and brings in new ones.
All that legal stuff aside, sure there are some sites with poor security or bad bot control and other issues like that. But even sites operating outside the law probably a.) don't want to bring legal attention to their site by having an RNG rigging scandal or b.) lose players because of evidence of RNG rigging...as both are bad for the bottom line of their profits. If a site really doesn't care about long term income generation then they'd probably just use superusers/hole card exploits/backdoors to rip people off and disappear into the night without paying out..and knock on wood, even the grayest of sites currently operating long term still seem to continue and also pay out.
If you don't think there's people playing live casino poker who won't shove A3o in early position pre flop, or chase runner runner flush draws 4 way with Q4s , or chase that runner runner gutshot straight with less then 2:1 odds every street...it's like seeing online poker in a real life setting
As for the action flop theory. Even I used to think it was possible but then I asked myself "as long as there's players like I mentioned above, willing to play any two cards and chase so many things, why does the site need to risk "rigging" the game for bigger action when the players are building the action themselves?"
The only part I disagree on as to why online poker likely isn't rigged is the "legal" ramifications. Here's why: One of the biggest online poker markets in the world (USA) has been in a gray area of online poker operations for over 7 years and yet sites continue to operate from offshore in questionable areas and under questionable "auditing." Players continue to play there and some even do well and withdrawal regularly. That said, if we consider only "legal" ramifications as an inspiration to "keep the card shuffles honest," most of these sites have zero legal ramifications if they "rig" the game so no deterrent there. However, money talks , so even if they aren't beholden by legal standards, business 101 says it'd be real bad for business to rig the cards and the action. Why risk the easy cash flow of rake from players 24/7 filling your tables for a few extra cents in rake every hand? Yeah it adds up...but it's all gone quick if people find out the deal is rigged. So these gray area sites get to operate without true legal/auditing oversight while making money and money is the motive so better to stay in business then risk losing your entire customer base in a scandal while also attracting unwanted legal attention. It's one of the same reasons many companies "do good" things like donations or charitable initiatives...sure it's a goodwill gesture and helps things...but it also keeps customers and brings in new ones.
All that legal stuff aside, sure there are some sites with poor security or bad bot control and other issues like that. But even sites operating outside the law probably a.) don't want to bring legal attention to their site by having an RNG rigging scandal or b.) lose players because of evidence of RNG rigging...as both are bad for the bottom line of their profits. If a site really doesn't care about long term income generation then they'd probably just use superusers/hole card exploits/backdoors to rip people off and disappear into the night without paying out..and knock on wood, even the grayest of sites currently operating long term still seem to continue and also pay out.
perrywh
Legend
Platinum Level
A computer generated game owned and operated by poker players. I have been playing poker for over 50 years. Played with the best, including world champs. Every good player I have known at some time has cheated and will admit to it. So what is the odds of a poker site ran by poker players to be completely honest? Been playing online since it started and I do believe it is rigged for the site to get more rake and the let the lesser players to win so they will deposit over and over.
This is my observation over the past 15 years playing online.
This is my observation over the past 15 years playing online.
whiskers77
The art of purring
Loyaler
Thanks for this interesting and very detailed article. Damn, at the beginning of playing poker, I was also kinda paranoid. Especially paranoid about someone could see my hands. Later I thought, it was just paranoia, but now I read, that it really happened in a room.
But well, usually I don't think rooms are rigged, especially not the bigger ones, they just can't allow themself to cheat, because of too many regulations and also they need to concern about their reputation. They want to earn long-term money not only for a moment. Also about the RNG, I think there good enough algorithms for the randomization and also about protecting this. Hey, otherwise you shouldn't do any online banking anymore.
But well, usually I don't think rooms are rigged, especially not the bigger ones, they just can't allow themself to cheat, because of too many regulations and also they need to concern about their reputation. They want to earn long-term money not only for a moment. Also about the RNG, I think there good enough algorithms for the randomization and also about protecting this. Hey, otherwise you shouldn't do any online banking anymore.
sergik1992
Legend
Silver Level
I don`t believe, that online poker is rigged (I mean top poker sites) . Our main enemy at the poker tables are our personal weaknesses. But I know a lot of players, who disagree with me... It`s human`s nature to guilt everything, but not themselves. I advise this sort of players try to find mistakes in game and improve that!
sryulaw
Visionary
Silver Level
hardly the platform will manipulate, even though they have open capital, there are investors, if that happens happen, it will be a disaster for the world of Poker, I know you have magic decks, that you see the cards with infrared, you have on internet selling, have videos on Youtube, with this kind of thing, it's easier to have these cards and have players playing them in the house, I know, I just thought about it now ..
The bads, are part of the game, players who do not make volume will feel this much, need a very strong mental preparation to understand this.
The bads, are part of the game, players who do not make volume will feel this much, need a very strong mental preparation to understand this.
chicopaw
Legend
Loyaler
There are many misconceptions players have and in which i have had myself, Though I have had a run of bad luck bad beats .Overall Rigged, I don't think so personally, Some bad sites in the past Definintly ; just need to conquer your Mistakes and when you start winning see if your opinion changes???
N
needcoffeesendhelp
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Other Sites Seem Shady
I tried BetOnline and the suckouts in that site were insane. They more than regularly hit runner-runner to win. My experience with ACR is that hands that were weighted to win actually won the majority of the time.
Basically, depends on the site in my experience.
I tried BetOnline and the suckouts in that site were insane. They more than regularly hit runner-runner to win. My experience with ACR is that hands that were weighted to win actually won the majority of the time.
Basically, depends on the site in my experience.
branta
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I don't think it's rigged, necessarily. I think that confirmation bias comes into play when someone comes along and claims X game is rigged because they got so many bad beats.
It reminds me of a story I was told in school once about, I think it was iTunes, how the shuffle/random mode was thought to be "broken" because of how you sometimes would hear the same song twice not very far apart or how the same artist would get multiple songs in a row when using it, which caused them to actually change the system from a true random to a sort of algorithm I guess. People that say things are "rigged" or don't work right don't understand the complex coding that goes into those programs.
It reminds me of a story I was told in school once about, I think it was iTunes, how the shuffle/random mode was thought to be "broken" because of how you sometimes would hear the same song twice not very far apart or how the same artist would get multiple songs in a row when using it, which caused them to actually change the system from a true random to a sort of algorithm I guess. People that say things are "rigged" or don't work right don't understand the complex coding that goes into those programs.
S
Shanek
Enthusiast
Silver Level
i find myself asking the same question every now amd then and came to learn some times I just make bad calls when I shouldn't of its a gamble all poker is in this game the unthinkable can happen so I wouldn't say its rigged
V
vpashuta
Rock Star
Silver Level
I don't think there's any question. I work from home and play 8-10hrs a day and see consistent patterns of bad beats over and over every day. I believe there is an all- in function designed to take out the lower stack players.
57noona
Legend
Bronze Level
In both live and online poker you are going to have people breaking rules like playing together in live poker or some one using two accounts to play online. It sucks that people have to do this, but it is out there. Now I don't think the sites like cheating, but employees have been caught cheating and in those cases online poker has been rigged. Who really knows how many employees of sites are doing this? They have to be caught in order to find out. There is always going to be some sort of cheating going in online and live poker. I don't know if I ran into it or not. But there is always some player out there trying to get an edge on the rest of the game.
Nikolay Nakhaev
Legend
Silver Level
I think that the most important online problem can be called the introduction of a bot, and the poker community, especially poker rooms, must constantly struggle with this. generator of random numbers, and therefore often weak players always have to blame someone. I think that everywhere you can be the best. the main thing. you want to make yourself a good player, and it does not matter whether you are online or on live tables.
but, in the end, I will say. Online poker is now a part of my life. and I think it will be a long time .
but, in the end, I will say. Online poker is now a part of my life. and I think it will be a long time .
ZenGreen
Visionary
Silver Level
Rigged and Compromised beyond repair, if fact since the US is no longer part of the deal, the sites have become worse. Know you have superior bots (say what you will but these bots today aint your shanky shit), Teams of who knows how many with every hand history every made that they switch off on you and have better players take over in late game,
The RNG should have been special and not tied to one site or anything dealing with money, every site should have to plug into the same independent of the site RNG but if they can mine bitcoin they can damn sure manipulate an RNG they own.
Not to mention all the crap on Winning networks espcially if they play on that POKERKING skin, just the stuff about players on that skin should make most recs leave winning now.
ALl this and it goes much deeper and on and on that we will never know. but since the US isnt a factor anymore, it just become an ever increasing wave of worse and worse shit. sometimes I wish they would quit lying to people and say bots are allowed that way Ill set one up and let it handle the first few hours and should get deep as much as I do and then I can take over if I want.
But anyways. I still play to keep my mind sharp but I dont take anywhere as serious as I did, no matter how much I study and do this and that I wont have the edge these Ghosting groups, team plays and bot farms have.
My Im just mad cause I can only cash in CC games, hmm games with no bot farms, no team viewers (least I hope not) and no for profit teams ,, HMM +NOW THAT REALLY MAKES ME WONDER cant cash in cheater games, can cash sometime in legit games HMMMM
The RNG should have been special and not tied to one site or anything dealing with money, every site should have to plug into the same independent of the site RNG but if they can mine bitcoin they can damn sure manipulate an RNG they own.
Not to mention all the crap on Winning networks espcially if they play on that POKERKING skin, just the stuff about players on that skin should make most recs leave winning now.
ALl this and it goes much deeper and on and on that we will never know. but since the US isnt a factor anymore, it just become an ever increasing wave of worse and worse shit. sometimes I wish they would quit lying to people and say bots are allowed that way Ill set one up and let it handle the first few hours and should get deep as much as I do and then I can take over if I want.
But anyways. I still play to keep my mind sharp but I dont take anywhere as serious as I did, no matter how much I study and do this and that I wont have the edge these Ghosting groups, team plays and bot farms have.
My Im just mad cause I can only cash in CC games, hmm games with no bot farms, no team viewers (least I hope not) and no for profit teams ,, HMM +NOW THAT REALLY MAKES ME WONDER cant cash in cheater games, can cash sometime in legit games HMMMM
Bricxjo
Just some happy guy
Loyaler
I remember the Potripper thing. You can still see videos of it on youtube. Of course, I don't believe the sites I use are riggged. I would stop playing on them if I did.
I suppose I still fear collusion and I do think someone could do it with a lot of effort. I suppose I don't play at the levels that would make it worth it.
I suppose I still fear collusion and I do think someone could do it with a lot of effort. I suppose I don't play at the levels that would make it worth it.
L
LongRover
Rock Star
Silver Level
Is Online Poker Rigged
Too many online sites to answer. I don't know. I don't know how anyone could. Like many, I hope not. Remember Black Friday! Indictments against companies and individuals unsealed by DOJ, USA. Given history, given it repeats itself, given there are warnings all across the internet to avoid certain sites, I don't dismiss players who think sites are rigged. I advise caution. Take complaints seriously. Investigate where possible.
What makes me cringe are those who say a complaint cannot be true because of their own beliefs. Imposing beliefs upon complaints is very close to labeling. Instead of looking at complaints on their merits, some try to demonize complainants by saying they are just "poor losers." When this attitude arises, I get suspicious. If a good investigator hears this, he will look at the agenda of those who dismiss complaints, not just the complaints themselves.
It is in the interest of both the online poker industry and its clients to know that it is not rigged. That this question is still asked means this point has yet to be reached in the minds of some players. Can't swear by other sites with integrity, if I want to be taken seriously. But, pokerstars, 888Poker, and CardsChat seem OK.
Too many online sites to answer. I don't know. I don't know how anyone could. Like many, I hope not. Remember Black Friday! Indictments against companies and individuals unsealed by DOJ, USA. Given history, given it repeats itself, given there are warnings all across the internet to avoid certain sites, I don't dismiss players who think sites are rigged. I advise caution. Take complaints seriously. Investigate where possible.
What makes me cringe are those who say a complaint cannot be true because of their own beliefs. Imposing beliefs upon complaints is very close to labeling. Instead of looking at complaints on their merits, some try to demonize complainants by saying they are just "poor losers." When this attitude arises, I get suspicious. If a good investigator hears this, he will look at the agenda of those who dismiss complaints, not just the complaints themselves.
It is in the interest of both the online poker industry and its clients to know that it is not rigged. That this question is still asked means this point has yet to be reached in the minds of some players. Can't swear by other sites with integrity, if I want to be taken seriously. But, pokerstars, 888Poker, and CardsChat seem OK.
MrGoodFlop
Rock Star
Silver Level
On line poker may be rigged but that does not necessarily mean that it is unfair to the players.
A poker room might rigg the deal to maximize their profit but since the players are not playing against the house, the games could still be fair.
What you might see for instance in mtt is that the deal often tends to favor the best players in order to end the tournament asap. This way the house can put up more tourneys and rake in more cash.
For example, a live tourney with a couple of thousand entrants may take 7 days to complete. A similar tourney on line takes only about 12 hours to complete. This is probably not just happening by chance alone.
A poker room might rigg the deal to maximize their profit but since the players are not playing against the house, the games could still be fair.
What you might see for instance in mtt is that the deal often tends to favor the best players in order to end the tournament asap. This way the house can put up more tourneys and rake in more cash.
For example, a live tourney with a couple of thousand entrants may take 7 days to complete. A similar tourney on line takes only about 12 hours to complete. This is probably not just happening by chance alone.
frnandoh
Legend
Bronze Level
If I believe the games are rigged, what the hell am I doing depositing money? To be stolen? I know some players that play pay their bills, if they can I can. At few months ago I could not win any game, so I keep learnig and trying, and trying and learning, and learning and trying again. Nowadays I can bite a little bit of this "cake". Nowadays I am in another level o learning, I need to learn to increase it and not burn it.
georgi krastev
Legendary Donk-Fish
Loyaler
Hi Debbie!
I will try to add a few words to your question:
Is online poker rigged?
I spent the last few days in a painful study of online poker! I understand a few things:
The most important thing is the fact 'reading the board'.If a player can not read the board, then his hand will be a complete trash in certain situations, even if it is pocket AA and so on!
The other thing I noticed is that the raise before the flop just does not work!It's bluffing to steal the chips from everyone!It's very rare to hit the cards you need!
So, if you have a bad beat, do not blame online poker for being rigged! Look at yourself!
The same situations happen in live .:ahhhhh:
Thanks !
I will try to add a few words to your question:
Is online poker rigged?
I spent the last few days in a painful study of online poker! I understand a few things:
The most important thing is the fact 'reading the board'.If a player can not read the board, then his hand will be a complete trash in certain situations, even if it is pocket AA and so on!
The other thing I noticed is that the raise before the flop just does not work!It's bluffing to steal the chips from everyone!It's very rare to hit the cards you need!
So, if you have a bad beat, do not blame online poker for being rigged! Look at yourself!
The same situations happen in live .:ahhhhh:
Thanks !