Why would you ever pre-flop-raise?

[kraemer]

Main reason to raise is to get people to fold!

Play around with Cardschat Odd Calculator and see how much your chances of winning drop as more opponents call you.

If you don’t raise more people will call you and get a chance to get lucky on the flop.

 

[roger perkins]

I may have missed it but another reason to raise is to take charge of the hand. You want to be the one that determines the next move. You have seen it many times after the flop the limpers check to the raise.

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

When playing real money, all players are tight so the number of players who call in is very small even without pre-flop raise. Then, why do we need the pre-flop raise? For the holes such as {A,A}, {Q,Q}, or {A,K}, it makes sense to raise pre-flop. However, for the holes of {Q,10} and {J,9}, the pre-flop raise is equivalent to the raise of big blind but nothing else.

Because of too much pre-flop raises, people have to make their buy-in have 100 BB rather than 25 BB. So, the pre-flop raises increase the cost, especially for weak hands. I wonder why the people who like pre-flop raises don't move to a higher-stake table. So, the pre-flop raises with weak hands is a poor strategy. The guy who raises with poor hands is actually challenging all players on the table. Any of other players with stronger hand may call him or re-raise and win a big pot from the contribution of that stupid guy.

 

[roger perkins]

Because of too much pre-flop raises, people have to make their buy-in have 100 BB rather than 25 BB. So, the pre-flop raises increase the cost, especially for weak hands. I wonder why the people who like pre-flop raises don't move to a higher-stake table. So, the pre-flop raises with weak hands is a poor strategy. The guy who raises with poor hands is actually challenging all players on the table. Any of other players with stronger hand may call him or re-raise and win a big pot from the contribution of that stupid guy.

You sound like a very new player who doesnt understand the game. You preflop raise to limit callers making your chances of winning go up. You may be trying to increase your profitability, you know building the pot. You raise to take charge of the hand, make everyone look to you for post flop action. You raise to IMPLY you have a good hand. You raise sometimes just to take the blinds which becomes very profitable at the higher levels in a tournament. You raise to be aggressive. You raise the same with AA as you do with 84, so you never indicate the strength of your hand. Not saying you want to play 84 but if you do you make your standard raise with it. If you read any of the post above you would understand this. Im not trying to be a dick but maybe sounding like one. Point being read a lot of the post on this forum and you will get a lot of information, some good some bad some common sense.

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

You sound like a very new player who doesnt understand the game. You preflop raise to limit callers making your chances of winning go up. You may be trying to increase your profitability, you know building the pot. You raise to take charge of the hand, make everyone look to you for post flop action. You raise to IMPLY you have a good hand. You raise sometimes just to take the blinds which becomes very profitable at the higher levels in a tournament. You raise to be aggressive. You raise the same with AA as you do with 84, so you never indicate the strength of your hand. Not saying you want to play 84 but if you do you make your standard raise with it. If you read any of the post above you would understand this. Im not trying to be a dick but maybe sounding like one. Point being read a lot of the post on this forum and you will get a lot of information, some good some bad some common sense.

We have no question on the pre-flop raise with a hole of pair-A. We have questions on the pre-flop raise with a hole like {Q,9} or so. If people don't care money they may call any of the pre-flop raise for fun. The only reason for me to understand the people who pre-flop raise with a hole {Q,9} is that he has a lot of money for fun rather than for profit. If you want to profit, you have to reduce your cost as much as possible. It seems that people believe pre-flop or bluffing is something that can take charge of the game or so. No, the only thing that leads to winning is the probability!!! If you bluff or pre-flop with a poor winning Prob. no one takes care of your actions. For example, if you raise pre-flop with a hole of {Q,9} and your opponent has a hole of pair-A. what will happen to you? You will lose all of your buy-in on the table.

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

You sound like a very new player who doesnt understand the game. You preflop raise to limit callers making your chances of winning go up. You may be trying to increase your profitability, you know building the pot. You raise to take charge of the hand, make everyone look to you for post flop action. You raise to IMPLY you have a good hand. You raise sometimes just to take the blinds which becomes very profitable at the higher levels in a tournament. You raise to be aggressive. You raise the same with AA as you do with 84, so you never indicate the strength of your hand. Not saying you want to play 84 but if you do you make your standard raise with it. If you read any of the post above you would understand this. Im not trying to be a dick but maybe sounding like one. Point being read a lot of the post on this forum and you will get a lot of information, some good some bad some common sense.

Can a pre-flop raise force a guy with a hole of suited 87 fold? No. If he has a buy-in of 100 BB and want to play with such a hole, no pre-flop raise can stop it. However, for the players with a buy-in of 25 BB, a pre-flop raise may cause them to fold because their buy-in is too small. So, again, the pre-flop raise is just how much money you like to put on the table but nothing else.

 

[roger perkins]

Can a pre-flop raise force a guy with a hole of suited 87 fold? No. If he has a buy-in of 100 BB and want to play with such a hole, no pre-flop raise can stop it. However, for the players with a buy-in of 25 BB, a pre-flop raise may cause them to fold because their buy-in is too small. So, again, the pre-flop raise is just how much money you like to put on the table but nothing else.

trust me you will never be a winning player if you dont learn how to preflop raise and not just with the big cards. and if they buy in with 100 BB and you only have 25 BB then maybe you are playing on to big of a table for your bankroll. and if im on the button with 87 and its been folded to me ill raise every time

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

trust me you will never be a winning player if you dont learn how to preflop raise and not just with the big cards. and if they buy in with 100 BB and you only have 25 BB then maybe you are playing on to big of a table for your bankroll. and if im on the button with 87 and its been folded to me ill raise every time

The more you raise pre-flop, the more you will lose unless your hand is strong. It seems pre-flop raise + C-bet + bluff is called a strategy. It is very poor. All stupid stuffs started from the pre-flop raise. Because you raise pre-flop with a poor hand, you have to use c-bet and bluff to rescue your previous big loss. If you don't raise too much pre-flop, you will have no trouble to fold if you haven't hit a luck after flop.

I never raise pre-flop with weak holes. I have turned 50k into 900 million chips in wsop in 4 monthes. I did see a lot of players in WSOP who raise a lot pre-flop have to buy fake chips to climb up. I also make money on global poker for real money.

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

Raising preflop reduces the field your hand has to play against. The less opponents you have, the more likely your strong hands will hold up.

If we take AA for example, against 1 opponent, it has ~85% chance winning against any random hand. However, against 6 players, the chance of winning drops down to ~43.5% chance. And against 8 other players, it drops to ~35% chance of winning.

So, with the best hand, you rather play against fewer player since since the you have the better chance of winning the pot.

Raising preflop also gets you value for your big hands. With big hands like AA and KK, you want to get as much money as you can in the middle while, at the same time reducing the number of opponents you play against. This way, you win bigger pots (more money) and you give yourself the best chance of doing so going against fewer opponents.

Lets say you have AA and you let 8 other players limp in for a $1 each. So, there is $9 in the middle. Against 8 players, AA only has a ~35% chance of winning by the river. To simply things, we'll say you're winning 3-out-of-10 times.

So, if we play this scenario 10x in a row, you're winning the $9 in the middle 3x for $18 total. Subtracting the $3 you put in, you're making $15 in profits for you wins. The other 6 times you lost, you paid $6 total, so $15 - $6 = $9 in total profits.

Now, lets say we play the same thing but this time you raise it $5 and get 3 callers. Vs 3 opponents, AA has a ~64% of winning by the river. Again, to simply things, we'll say you're winning 6-out-of-10 times.

So, with 4 players in the hand, the pot is $20 and with a ~64% chance of winning, 6 x $20 = $120. You paid $5 x 6 or $30. So, $120 - $30 = $90 in profits for the times you win. The other 4 times you lose, you're paying $20, so $90 - $20 = $70 in total profits.

So, the exact same scenario of playing AA 10x in row, you increased your overall value (money made) and also increased your chances of winning by raising and thinning out the field.

you are comparing apple with orange. With the same hole {A,A} and pre-flop raise of $5, you will make more money with 8 callers than 3 callers. So, the reduced number of players due to pre-flop raise makes no sense.

 

[roger perkins]

The more you raise pre-flop, the more you will lose unless your hand is strong. It seems pre-flop raise + C-bet + bluff is called a strategy. It is very poor. All stupid stuffs started from the pre-flop raise. Because you raise pre-flop with a poor hand, you have to use c-bet and bluff to rescue your previous big loss. If you don't raise too much pre-flop, you will have no trouble to fold if you haven't hit a luck after flop.

I never raise pre-flop with weak holes. I have turned 50k into 900 million chips in WSOP in 4 monthes. I did see a lot of players in WSOP who raise a lot pre-flop have to buy fake chips to climb up. I also make money on global poker for real money.

Well since you brought up WSOP I have played WSOP, WPT, Heartland and many local tournaments for real money for 8 years now. as a sole income source. So if you dont want to take my advice or any other advice about raising prefop I hope to see you at the tables some day. When you check Ill raise when you raise Ill fold and make a fortune off you because you are easily readable. You need to read some books and learn why to raise why to c bet and why to 3 bet. Your game will be very limited if you dont. Im only leading you to the water hole you have to decide if you are going to drink it. I dont think you want to try and learn you just want someone to agree with your opinion.

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

Well since you brought up WSOP I have played WSOP, WPT, Heartland and many local tournaments for real money for 8 years now. as a sole income source. So if you dont want to take my advice or any other advice about raising prefop I hope to see you at the tables some day. When you check Ill raise when you raise Ill fold and make a fortune off you because you are easily readable. You need to read some books and learn why to raise why to c bet and why to 3 bet. Your game will be very limited if you dont. Im only leading you to the water hole you have to decide if you are going to drink it. I dont think you want to try and learn you just want someone to agree with your opinion.

If you do the math carefully, you will find the pre-flop raise makes no sense except the increase of BB. For example, I will treat a pre-flop raise of 3BB as the BB is tripled at this hand. That's it. If you raise pre-flop with a {K,10} and another one called with with a {Q,J}, your chance of winning is 50/50. If the chance of winning is 50/50, why do we play the poker?

 

[Taijae88]

Pre-flop raising can reduce the number of players in the hand and can be used as a tool to isolate individual players when you have a stronger starting hand. Personally, I have started pre-flop raising less with small pairs, which can drain your chipstack.



Preflop raise tip: Make sure you have positional awareness


Your position in a hand should influence the range of hands that you are willing to play or pre-flop raise. For instance, the more players to act behind you, the tighter your range should be.

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

Well since you brought up WSOP I have played WSOP, WPT, Heartland and many local tournaments for real money for 8 years now. as a sole income source. So if you dont want to take my advice or any other advice about raising prefop I hope to see you at the tables some day. When you check Ill raise when you raise Ill fold and make a fortune off you because you are easily readable. You need to read some books and learn why to raise why to c bet and why to 3 bet. Your game will be very limited if you dont. Im only leading you to the water hole you have to decide if you are going to drink it. I dont think you want to try and learn you just want someone to agree with your opinion.

The reason why I don't think the pre-flop raise makes sense is I didn't see any fundamental behind it. So, for a pre-flop raise of 3BB with a hole of {K,10}, I can't feel anything except the level of BB is tripled at this hand. When another one with hole {Q,J} called you, your chance of winning is 50/50. For 50/50, why do we increase our cost? Then you may argue to use bluffing. Poker is something like a war. The winning rule of a war is the power rather than bluffing!

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

You sound like a very new player who doesnt understand the game. You preflop raise to limit callers making your chances of winning go up. You may be trying to increase your profitability, you know building the pot. You raise to take charge of the hand, make everyone look to you for post flop action. You raise to IMPLY you have a good hand. You raise sometimes just to take the blinds which becomes very profitable at the higher levels in a tournament. You raise to be aggressive. You raise the same with AA as you do with 84, so you never indicate the strength of your hand. Not saying you want to play 84 but if you do you make your standard raise with it. If you read any of the post above you would understand this. Im not trying to be a dick but maybe sounding like one. Point being read a lot of the post on this forum and you will get a lot of information, some good some bad some common sense.

Let's talking about how the pre-flop raise eliminates a hole 84. First the 84 should fold automatically without the need of your pre-flop raise. If the 84 calls in, he is a fish. so why do we need to eliminate this guy? The chance of winning for 84 is very small. So, we should be happy to have such a fish on the table.

 

[hookmeout]

You take the initiato\ive. You can bet for value. Limping is a losing proposition unless you are slow playing

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

Pre-flop raising can reduce the number of players in the hand and can be used as a tool to isolate individual players when you have a stronger starting hand. Personally, I have started pre-flop raising less with small pairs, which can drain your chipstack.



Preflop raise tip: Make sure you have positional awareness


Your position in a hand should influence the range of hands that you are willing to play or pre-flop raise. For instance, the more players to act behind you, the tighter your range should be.

If there are another two players call in for your pre-flop raise with a small pair hole, your losing chance is 70% after flop and 90% at river. However, if there is only one player calls in, your losing chance is 50% at river.

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

The reason why I don't think the pre-flop raise makes sense is I didn't see any fundamental behind it. So, for a pre-flop raise of 3BB with a hole of {K,10}, I can't feel anything except the level of BB is tripled at this hand. When another one with hole {Q,J} called you, your chance of winning is 50/50. For 50/50, why do we increase our cost? Then you may argue to use bluffing. Poker is something like a war. The winning rule of a war is the power rather than bluffing!

If you always raise 3 to 4 BB at pre-flop with a hole like A10,K9 or so, the player with a hole of QJ may re-raise to 10BB or just all-in. Then, he will take charge of the table beacsue he is bluffing he has a hole of AA or KK. At this moment, what do you do? Call or fold? If you call, your chance of winning is only 50%. In this case, the poker becomes a silly game. If you fold, you lose a lot. See, pre-flop raise with a weak hole makes no sense and is easy to be beat.

 

[fastfash25]

Why wouldnt you is a better question. I rather play heads up ir 3 way on the flop the with all 9/10 players. And dont always just raise with premiums. mix it up

 

[duson]

To build a good pot size if I have a strong hand, to get weaker hands to fold, and to make the other players think I have a hand strong enough to beat theirs.

 

[kdawg71]

It's all about risk and reward. When a player has a premium preflop hand they need to get there chips in the middle because the reward as a generality outweighs the risk. It's also about hand equity which in a sense falls into the category as risk and reward. You may have A A preflop. Your opponent may have K K preflop. He doesn't know what you have, but he's not going to fold. You may have A A preflop and have five or six other people on the board that play. You don't want to call with A A with that many people on board so you put a solid raise to get rid of some of them and if they don't leave than you have the best preflop hand equity at that moment. You really want to get rid of a few though because the odds of you winning with that many people on board just went way down. Again, risk and reward. I may have K J suited and be under the gun and limp in wanting to see a flop. You have position on me and you have 9 9 preflop and you don't want me to see that flop. So you put a raise in which is incentive for me to fold. Now I could have A A preflop instead of the K J suited, but you don't know that and as a generality most players will put a raise on the A A preflop under the gun. Myself, it depends on how active the table is. For instance, if the table is a loose table than I would limp in with the preflop A A under the gun. Whereas, if I was playing on a tight table I would put a 2.5 raise on the board hoping for a little action. One of the people on the board maybe low on their chip stack and have an A 10 suited and shove all in. There may be a player on the table that is a donk and is shoving all in just because they are a donk. Everybody may fold. I don't know. The thing is that nobody knows what anybody truly has in their hand and depending upon each players values of what they dictate as a good preflop hand they may do just about anything. A lot of your answers will come to you with experience of putting your play time on the table and low and behold one day that light bulb in your head will turn on and you will say, "I know exactly what that guy was talking about". I hope that this might help you out if not but a little bit. Good luck!!!

 

[mara2259]

For each seat at the table there is an indicative list of starting hands with which to open a trade. If you neglect these recommendations, you will very soon notice that you are playing in the minus. Entering the game limp, you would like to see the flop for cheap and only then decide to continue the game or not. But some people at the table, the one who believes that he has a strong enough hand, raising 3BB, says no to you and invites you to pay first. Depending on your answer, he additionally receives information about the strength of your hand. If you try, with no reason at all, to surprise someone with "non-standard" moves, you will soon be calculated and the game will be unprofitable for you. Good luck.

 

[PeedroZack]

it depends of a lot of things, including position, stack, range, enemies, pot size, blinds, bluff, etc...

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

Again, with a hole of AA, the best way is to bet all-in pre-flop rather than reduce the number of players. With all-in, the more the players call, the more you win. However, in practice, if you bet all-in, all other may fold so you get nothing. That's why people have to raise pre-flop properly to maximize your profit.

 

[akjordan16]

Pre flop raising

Sometimes not pre flop raising can be a chip maker also doing it at the right time is the thrill of making poker choices, but I agree to do it the majority of the time.

 

[huang_yuejin_2004]

why is the hole of K J worrying about a hole of suited 78 so as to raise pre-flop to stop the suited 78? This is because the suited 78 has more power than KJ. So, why does the suited 78 fold when there is a pre-flop raise? No way. So, again, just play as what you want provide that it makes sense.