Why would you ever pre-flop-raise?

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TheCactus

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As you can probably see by my question, I'm new to poker. And what gets me confused a lot is preflop raising. I don't understand why people do it so much and what the point of it is. First of all, I feel like when I'm preflop raising (and I do have good cards) I'm just telling everyone at the table I have good cards. If I don't have good cards I especially don't understand why I should preflop raise, because it seems to me that the only two options that could happen are A) that I get called by someone with better cards than me or B) that everyone folds to me and I get to steal the blinds, which almost never happens without betting at least three times the big blind. Which brings me to my last question: why would you ever want to steal the blinds? I don't get it, there is usually way too little money in the pot to be worth taking a risk, and whenever there is actually some money in there it means that the entire table limped and if you pre-flop-raise you're almost certain to be called by someone.

So can please someone with a little more experience than me explain to me what the point of preflop raising is and why people do it so much? I mean there has got to be something to it that I don't get. Thanks in advance!
 
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johnnygadget

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There could be many reasons.
1.To get as many people to fold as possible. The more people that fold, the more likely your hand will win.
2.To keep people with crap hands from flopping something disastrous to you.
3.To make the pot bigger
4.To bluff

If you have AK and someone has AQ and the flop is A22 then you're likely going to get all of that persons chips. But if you didn't raise preflop and someone with 72 limps in just because they felt like 'what the heck, blinds are so low why not', then the person with 72 is likely to get your chips AND the other guys chips, because one of you three will go all-in, and the other two will likely call.
 
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ph_il

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Raising preflop reduces the field your hand has to play against. The less opponents you have, the more likely your strong hands will hold up.

If we take AA for example, against 1 opponent, it has ~85% chance winning against any random hand. However, against 6 players, the chance of winning drops down to ~43.5% chance. And against 8 other players, it drops to ~35% chance of winning.

So, with the best hand, you rather play against fewer player since since the you have the better chance of winning the pot.

Raising preflop also gets you value for your big hands. With big hands like AA and KK, you want to get as much money as you can in the middle while, at the same time reducing the number of opponents you play against. This way, you win bigger pots (more money) and you give yourself the best chance of doing so going against fewer opponents.

Lets say you have AA and you let 8 other players limp in for a $1 each. So, there is $9 in the middle. Against 8 players, AA only has a ~35% chance of winning by the river. To simply things, we'll say you're winning 3-out-of-10 times.

So, if we play this scenario 10x in a row, you're winning the $9 in the middle 3x for $18 total. Subtracting the $3 you put in, you're making $15 in profits for you wins. The other 6 times you lost, you paid $6 total, so $15 - $6 = $9 in total profits.

Now, lets say we play the same thing but this time you raise it $5 and get 3 callers. Vs 3 opponents, AA has a ~64% of winning by the river. Again, to simply things, we'll say you're winning 6-out-of-10 times.

So, with 4 players in the hand, the pot is $20 and with a ~64% chance of winning, 6 x $20 = $120. You paid $5 x 6 or $30. So, $120 - $30 = $90 in profits for the times you win. The other 4 times you lose, you're paying $20, so $90 - $20 = $70 in total profits.

So, the exact same scenario of playing AA 10x in row, you increased your overall value (money made) and also increased your chances of winning by raising and thinning out the field.
 
Dany_Style

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I think it's good to raise before the flop, so insulate pretty mediocre hands, and will reduce the number of opponents that will play on the flop. after the show that you hold a good hand before fopa, the flop have a chance to c-bet, bluff and so on. say you have AA before the flop and not aggressive enough, someone will pay 5.6 will hit the flop in better than your AA then you get into a difficult situation, or is it just those 5-6 can have a draw that to catch up on the turn, so I can tell you when you have good cards raise because it would be a great chance to win against less opponents, and the pot is large, it is not providing binding success, but have a chance, naturally as you think you will lose is to quit.
 
BiliousBetil

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Let's see if this helps. Imagine you're in middle position with a hand like 7-7, or A-9 off suit. When Under The Gun raises do think:

1. Whoopee! More money in the pot, or
2. Aw man, I wanted to limp in! :mad:

When you open raise, you force all of the marginal hands behind you make an unpleasant choice.

Another point: Every week on Live At The Bike you see players limp in with big hands and for the most part get punished for it. Check it out, and you'll see for yourself.

Cheers!
 
Henry Minute

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All of the previous posts that give getting marginal hands to fold as a reason to raise pre-flop, are correct and it mostly works.

There is one exception though. Most freerolls (Though, thankfully, not the CC ones). There are many players in these that, whilst they mostly limp or fold, will call any raise no matter how large and no matter how bad their pocket cards are. They hardly ever re-raise, most never do. In my experience they are pretty much always Eastern Europeans and my only conclusion is that there must be some sort of forum or series of articles written in one of the Cyrillic Languages that recommend this strategy. I'd love to know if that is true.
 
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ph_il

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My math was a little off in my example. 3 x $9 = $27. -$10 that you put in yourself gives you $17 in profits.
 
MediaBLITZ

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You raise preflop to:

Get weaker hands out. That way your QQ is usually still good when the flop comes down 782. Otherwise the guy holding 78 (who was hoping to see the flop cheap) has you crushed. This is the beginning of insuring the game will be about your skill and not their luck.

A main objective is to get heads up with one other player because one is easier to deal with than 2 or 3 or 4+. Again, so your skill can come more into play versus it becoming a roll of the dice.

Help you define the other guys hands. If he called your raise then you can usually eliminate a bunch of cards that he might be holding. If he called a limp it increases the range of hands he could have and makes it way more difficult for you to define what he is holding and how that matches or misses the board.
 
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heraldyswift

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There could be many reasons.
1.To get as many people to fold as possible. The more people that fold, the more likely your hand will win.
2.To keep people with crap hands from flopping something disastrous to you.
3.To make the pot bigger
4.To bluff

If you have AK and someone has AQ and the flop is A22 then you're likely going to get all of that persons chips. But if you didn't raise preflop and someone with 72 limps in just because they felt like 'what the heck, blinds are so low why not', then the person with 72 is likely to get your chips AND the other guys chips, because one of you three will go all-in, and the other two will likely call.

Great answer,
short and precise.
 
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Maelera

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His hand will never be very good if you are playing against everyone
 
ConDeck

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There could be many reasons.
1.To get as many people to fold as possible. The more people that fold, the more likely your hand will win.
2.To keep people with crap hands from flopping something disastrous to you.
3.To make the pot bigger
4.To bluff

If you have AK and someone has AQ and the flop is A22 then you're likely going to get all of that persons chips. But if you didn't raise preflop and someone with 72 limps in just because they felt like 'what the heck, blinds are so low why not', then the person with 72 is likely to get your chips AND the other guys chips, because one of you three will go all-in, and the other two will likely call.

Raising preflop reduces the field your hand has to play against. The less opponents you have, the more likely your strong hands will hold up.

If we take AA for example, against 1 opponent, it has ~85% chance winning against any random hand. However, against 6 players, the chance of winning drops down to ~43.5% chance. And against 8 other players, it drops to ~35% chance of winning.

So, with the best hand, you rather play against fewer player since since the you have the better chance of winning the pot.

Raising preflop also gets you value for your big hands. With big hands like AA and KK, you want to get as much money as you can in the middle while, at the same time reducing the number of opponents you play against. This way, you win bigger pots (more money) and you give yourself the best chance of doing so going against fewer opponents.

Lets say you have AA and you let 8 other players limp in for a $1 each. So, there is $9 in the middle. Against 8 players, AA only has a ~35% chance of winning by the river. To simply things, we'll say you're winning 3-out-of-10 times.

So, if we play this scenario 10x in a row, you're winning the $9 in the middle 3x for $18 total. Subtracting the $3 you put in, you're making $15 in profits for you wins. The other 6 times you lost, you paid $6 total, so $15 - $6 = $9 in total profits.

Now, lets say we play the same thing but this time you raise it $5 and get 3 callers. Vs 3 opponents, AA has a ~64% of winning by the river. Again, to simply things, we'll say you're winning 6-out-of-10 times.

So, with 4 players in the hand, the pot is $20 and with a ~64% chance of winning, 6 x $20 = $120. You paid $5 x 6 or $30. So, $120 - $30 = $90 in profits for the times you win. The other 4 times you lose, you're paying $20, so $90 - $20 = $70 in total profits.

So, the exact same scenario of playing AA 10x in row, you increased your overall value (money made) and also increased your chances of winning by raising and thinning out the field.

^^

Although as to why you would want to steal the blinds, well every orbit costs you money. The more blinds you can steal the longer you can stay alive and also improves win rate.

In terms of cash games, we increase our win rate gradually as we play every time we steal the blinds (if we are doing this profitably). Lets say we are playing 200NL 6max with no antes. BB=$2 SB=$1. We pay $3 every 6 hands, or roughly $50 per hundred hands. That is a loss of 25bb per 100 hands. Every bb we can steal therefore brings the cost of playing down, ultimately increasing our win rate.

Now in tournaments, this becomes even more important as stacks get shallower, antes and blinds get bigger. We have what is known as an M value, or the number of orbits we can survive until we blind out. As our M decreses we are forced to play looser, taking more risks to stay in the tournament. If we can steal even just 1bb and antes every 2 orbits as we get shallower we can significantly increase our M, not only allowing us to run deeper just through number of orbits we can survive but also giving you more opportunity for profitable spots to chip up and bink. Tournaments are all about survival and every big blind is crucial in to this survival.
 
WVHillbilly

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We raise because when you limp it makes Baby Jesus cry. You don't hate Baby Jesus do you?
 
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jerohit

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raising preflop means you have good cards so opponent with bad card will fold to you and on flop you have very less opponents.. Now if you did not hit flop then you can bluf by continuation bet or any strong raise coz bluffing is only works when you have less opponents should ve one or two.
 
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huang_yuejin_2004

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I also disagree with too much pre-flop rasie

When playing real money, all players are tight so the number of players who call in is very small even without pre-flop raise. Then, why do we need the pre-flop raise? For the holes such as {A,A}, {Q,Q}, or {A,K}, it makes sense to raise pre-flop. However, for the holes of {Q,10} and {J,9}, the pre-flop raise is equivalent to the raise of big blind but nothing else.
 
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eberetta1

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I raise pre-flop because I never want my pocket Aces to lose to like, 83 off suit. You raise pre-flop to get rid of the garbage hands.

And stealing blinds. Lets just say in the latter part of the game, when there is antes that make each player pay 1k chips, 2k chips, 4k chips. This would be when stealing blinds is valuable. Stealing blinds, if successful may also help you get itm as others may not want to risk their chips if they are close to being itm.
 
greatgame230

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Hi, there are many reasons that the members of this community have already explained to you but it is simple to take the initiative I mean to be aggressive to cause something to happen not in a specific hand, but in the course of the tournament, the sit or the cash table Wherever you are .

Greetings
 
juninhigh

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1- First of all DON'T LIMP, it show weakness, and good players will bully you. So YES, raise with medium suited connectors. You are allowed to limp only if you're on the BUTTON with mediocre hand, but have a good feeling to see the flop.

2- If you play some tournaments you're going to realize to SURVIVE you NEED to STEAL blinds and antes, simply as that. Blinds will go higher and if you wait premium hands your stack are going to shrink.

3 - Of course if you're playing cash games with limited villains, you have to changer gears, no need to try so steal blinds. (but if you have position and saw a lot of limpers you should trie).
 
Minus272c

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Stealing blinds depends on alot of things.

First of all, if theres no antes, i rarely goes for steals.
When antes comes into the game, i steal when people in the
blinds are passive players, and not when they are hyper active
loose players.
Also trying to steal blinds will often make the blinds resist more
and then one time you actually have a monster chance are youll
get paid of bigtime.

Reraising pre should never only be with your top hands, you should
mix it up so noone can predict if your holding 56s or AA.
 
kowrip

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First of all, I feel like when I'm preflop raising (and I do have good cards) I'm just telling everyone at the table I have good cards.



One of the most important reasons to raise is to gain information. Let's say you are dealt a hand like QQ. If you just limp in and a few other people also limp in, you have no idea what cards those other players might have. Now, let's say you raise to 3BB and get 1 caller. You have just accomplished 2 things. First, you got some of those players who might have wanted to limp in with mediocre/weak hands to fold. This means your QQ has a much better chance of still being the best hand. Also, you now know that the caller probably has a top 25%-30% starting hand. Otherwise, they would have folded. This makes it a little easier to play the rest of the hand.

Which brings me to my last question: why would you ever want to steal the blinds? I don't get it, there is usually way too little money in the pot to be worth taking a risk, and whenever there is actually some money in there it means that the entire table limped and if you pre-flop-raise you're almost certain to be called by someone.

Stealing blinds might not be so important in cash games, but it becomes very important during tournaments when the blinds get high and especially when antes are involved. Since the blinds/antes are constantly increase, there is more money in the pot to start the hand. Also, the average stack size will typically get pretty short in tournaments. So, stealing the blinds/antes a few times can add a lot to your stack. You still need to be smart about when you do it. You want to be in LP and have tight players in the blinds.

Never forget this one basic fact. When you bet/raise, you have TWO ways to win: opponents fold or you show down the best hand. When you check/call, you only have ONE way to win. That alone should tell you why it is generally more profitable to bet/raise than to check/call.
 
FernA9ndo

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Raise to call pre flop 3bets and calling All-ins. To make opponent fold the hand, to be the raise first in player and to make money in +EV spots in tournaments.
 
rafa77777

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everything will come with experience
 
TeUnit

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Lol, I have the opposite question in my head every day, "why would they limp?".

There are 2 main reason to raise:
1. To build the pot
2. To get people to fold

There are times where a limp may be the best play, like when 2 people limp in front of you in low blinds and you have a small pair. But in cash games I think a fair amount of players would say you should "punish the limpers" or try to isolate a limper.
 
Freeman748

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Hello! I think preflop need to do in order to get a count of the hands of worse then to knock the other players and to be alone with the player having a good hand for further game post flop!:p
 
FernA9ndo

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You need to win the hand, you bet to win more chips than if just had limped.
 
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UncleConRon

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My opinion

I like the pre-flop raise. Because I only get blinds and it isn't enough. There is a trick to pre-flop raising. You want to do it when your holes cards are do and those two hole cards haven't been on the table that much. That is reason a hand not as good can beat a hand that is better.
 
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