Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
iv_horsemen
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Hmmm...I get the concept, got 4/4 on the quiz. Interested to see where this concept goes. Are people really using software while they play? Downloaded Equilab and played around a little. Not going to be able to play turbo anymore.
iv_horsemen
iv_horsemen
H
hanio75
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Hi, I found this class very interesting. I don't quite understand the calculations. But from what I've been able to figure out is that as the game happens, in its phases, Pre flop, flop, turn river, the range of hands tends to either win or lose equity. Faced with this reality it is necessary to know how to regulate the bets to catch the pot. As in the example of the book if the hero had bet all in preflop could have won the pot, but as allowed the villain to grow his equity, ended up losing in showdon. If I'm wrong please direct me.
vinnie
Legend
Bronze Level
You are correct in that the hand loses in the book. But, that's not important. If they had gotten all-in, and the 65s had called, he would still lose on that board. But, more importantly, he isn't getting all-in preflop against 65s. If had shoved all-in, the 65s would usually just fold. You win 30 chips with AA. What a waste!
This flop happens to be exceptionally good for 6h5h. It would be very hard to get 65h to fold on this flop without over-playing your one pair hand. The AA still puts in money when he is good and folds when he is bad. Ignore the fact that the river was the 3h. If the river was the 9s, you would be thrilled to have played it this way. Equity is just part of the equation to find expected value. You need to go for the way that makes you the most money.
H
hanio75
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Hello vinnie I appreciate your feedback. And I recognize that you're right. But there is a risk of losing a tournament when you overvalue top pairs in a bad board.
vinnie
Legend
Bronze Level
I don't think this is an example of over-valuing a pair. In total, the player with AA only lost 18 big blinds in this hand (15 if you look at post-flop). And, this board isn't bad for AA. It's good for 6h5h, but it's still not bad for AA.
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Yes, people are using software when the play to some extent, but a lot of it isn't allowed. For example, Stars will give you a warning message if you try to have Equilab open when you play, and ICM software similarly isn't allowed real-time.
Definitely agree with Vinnie here.
The point of the example isn't that AA does something wrong, instead it's just to show the equities. You can't control results in poker. Generally if you get money in the pot every street where your equity is high, and on no streets where it's low, then you've done great whether or not you win the hand.
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Converting between the two (equity in absolute chips vs pot size) is for sure one of the key skills in this chapter. Both are very useful depending on the situation
Poker Orifice
Swede Tooth
Platinum Level
Typically used off the tables while reviewing HandHistories. Sites like Stars are able to detect if you even have something like Pokerstove, Equilab open on your computer (I wasn't aware of this and was analyzing a hand one time... 'awhile after it'd been played... & from a different site I was playing on & immediately I had a message pop up on my screen from Stars, letting me know I was getting a warning for it (I emailed & explained my situation but don't even analyze HH's on the computer I use for playing poker now.... instead I go over stuff on my laptop while studying).
fwiw, I'm still sorta stuck on using Pokerstove (although it is does not do as much as the others) - - super simple, easy to use.
iv_horsemen
Enthusiast
Silver Level
This seems like a more reasonable use of the software as I just couldn't keep up with the game play.
Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
I still like Pokerstove too and it was one of the first softwares I used when I first started studying poker seriously
antonis32123
Legend
Loyaler
I guess you can use some programms like this , not at the same PC that you play the games (on Stars on anywhere else ) , but at a laptop next you , maybe android tablet or whatever . So what's the point of Stars forbidding some softwares , cannot get it .
I also had such a problem , by mistake I did it , I emailed them told them I didn't did this on purpose , didn;t play not even one hand , won't repeat it and everything is fine
Some programs like Equilab are very usefull if you are familiar with their use , i want to try this
Fold equity , tournament equity , our hand equity vs a range of villain's hands , very important concepts . I like especially the fold equity , I want to make them fold many times especially short stack , cause they call ATC for a flip , almost all in but not quite (half blind or 1 blind in the stack) in some circumstances save my tournament life , sometimes i like doing it online
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
I guess you can use some programms like this , not at the same PC that you play the games (on Stars on anywhere else ) , but at a laptop next you , maybe android tablet or whatever . So what's the point of Stars forbidding some softwares , cannot get it .
I also had such a problem , by mistake I did it , I emailed them told them I didn't did this on purpose , didn;t play not even one hand , won't repeat it and everything is fine
Some programs like Equilab are very usefull if you are familiar with their use , i want to try this
Fold equity , tournament equity , our hand equity vs a range of villain's hands , very important concepts . I like especially the fold equity , I want to make them fold many times especially short stack , cause they call ATC for a flip , almost all in but not quite (half blind or 1 blind in the stack) in some circumstances save my tournament life , sometimes i like doing it online
I agree that it doesn't necessarily accomplish too much to ban a program like Equilab while playing. One reason is that it doesn't tell you what to do, just provides % equity calculations that are useful as part of study.
I also agree with you on the importance of fold equity, getting your opponents to lay down hands is a great part of poker!
BigDice75
Legend
Loyaler
These were my answers to the quiz on day 4
1) Killdonk's equity in percentage is 8.8%.
2) Killdonk's chips equity is approximately 47 chips.
3) I would say that there is not much fold equity because Ralph487 will find it difficult to fold his top pair, although since we don't know what type of player the villain is, I think it will depend on the size of the bet.
4) Killdonk will win 531 plus the chips he bet.
I answered the first three correctly but I didn't understand that the gain in chips was referring to the difference between the total pot minus Killdonk's equity in chips.
See you on day 5!!!
1) Killdonk's equity in percentage is 8.8%.
2) Killdonk's chips equity is approximately 47 chips.
3) I would say that there is not much fold equity because Ralph487 will find it difficult to fold his top pair, although since we don't know what type of player the villain is, I think it will depend on the size of the bet.
4) Killdonk will win 531 plus the chips he bet.
I answered the first three correctly but I didn't understand that the gain in chips was referring to the difference between the total pot minus Killdonk's equity in chips.
See you on day 5!!!
Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
U
userme4321
Rock Star
Silver Level
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Yes. Card counting applies more to blackjack, but particularly among more casual fans of the game, they'll label you a card-counter if you get good at poker math
C
CMack3
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Day 4 Equities
Interesting chapter. I've had to go over this a few time as I am not sure I fully grasp this. My thought is this and correct me if I am wrong as I feel +73% Equity on this thought.
Clearly a great way to study to understand + EV and - EV situations to learn and make sure you are putting yourself in + EV spots and not in - EV spots. It is not the exact math you need to figure out in game situations but knowing the concept and therefore being able to approximate the situation at hand and decide whether you are + or - EV?
Peace
Interesting chapter. I've had to go over this a few time as I am not sure I fully grasp this. My thought is this and correct me if I am wrong as I feel +73% Equity on this thought.
Clearly a great way to study to understand + EV and - EV situations to learn and make sure you are putting yourself in + EV spots and not in - EV spots. It is not the exact math you need to figure out in game situations but knowing the concept and therefore being able to approximate the situation at hand and decide whether you are + or - EV?
Peace
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
73% equity on this thought haha that’s great
It is exactly right though so you are now at 100% equity. The key thing is understanding the concept; so long as you’re good on how it works, you’re more than ready to keep progressing in the course!
C
CMack3
Rising Star
Bronze Level
73% equity on this thought haha that’s great
It is exactly right though so you are now at 100% equity. The key thing is understanding the concept; so long as you’re good on how it works, you’re more than ready to keep progressing in the course!
Great. Thanks for confirming. 100%, I’m all in!
P
Phyrrura
Rock Star
Bronze Level
I'm exploding!
Those class are just like bomb after bomb (figurativelly), because there are so much insights, I was a little hurry to watch them all, but after all, I'll need some patience, because there are so many concepts!
Those class are just like bomb after bomb (figurativelly), because there are so much insights, I was a little hurry to watch them all, but after all, I'll need some patience, because there are so many concepts!
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
It depends. If you're up against a player who's on a very wide range for calling your pre-flop raise, and then normally plays fit-or-fold post-flop, then yes! You have great fold equity.
If you're up against a good/thinking player who raised pre-flop and then checks this dry flop to you instead of c-betting, it's possible that he's often got some other plan besides folding such as calling you down with a mid-strength hand (such as AK) for pot control.