S
subsinind
Rock Star
Silver Level
Why are you playing NL when you don't want to risk 100 BB ( let's assume the person who raised all in is not a NIT)
If you believe he is a NIT, save your 100BB for better timing.
In all cases, you are up against AK,KK,QQ (not including AA)
100BB is not something to worry about in NL with KK if you believe opponent to have AA with <50% chances. If it is up against >300BB all in pre, you might wisely take a fold.
"No guts, No glory"
If you believe he is a NIT, save your 100BB for better timing.
In all cases, you are up against AK,KK,QQ (not including AA)
100BB is not something to worry about in NL with KK if you believe opponent to have AA with <50% chances. If it is up against >300BB all in pre, you might wisely take a fold.
"No guts, No glory"
J
Just_a_Tom
Enthusiast
Silver Level
You could have gotten away from that hand. The thing is, I wasn't at the table observing the players, even if the raiser was a tight aggressive player making a three-bet, those types of hands are still difficult to get away from. The standard UTG raise, could have represented a wide range of hands, and so could the three-bet, depending on the style of those players. The way I see it, even If I did put my opponent on something only as high as high as ace king, all it takes is that ace to beat me (assuming I miss my set). If I believe the other player will call that all in raise, and I'm able to put him on having an ace in his hand also, then I'm almost always going to make the call because they are holding each others outs. But in a nutshell, Mucking the kings pre-flop to a three-bet is not as uncommon as you might think, The pros do it all the time. I understand it's super difficult, but sometimes the correct decision.
Mikeisanace777
Rock Star
Silver Level
I would actually say it would depend...
If I just sat down and knew the player I might fold,or call and if it was just to much money and I was around even I might fold as well. Overall in a cash game that some guys going all in with could be 56-or aq you never know. It's generally a bad risk for a lot of money when some guy with 10-7 off gets trips. Don't get me wrong heads up or 2 way kings are great to shove in a tourney but for real cash not always see the flop unless your up big time and can afford a gamble call.
If I just sat down and knew the player I might fold,or call and if it was just to much money and I was around even I might fold as well. Overall in a cash game that some guys going all in with could be 56-or aq you never know. It's generally a bad risk for a lot of money when some guy with 10-7 off gets trips. Don't get me wrong heads up or 2 way kings are great to shove in a tourney but for real cash not always see the flop unless your up big time and can afford a gamble call.
scorpi224
Rock Star
Silver Level
Ofcourse i wouldn't fold with the second highest top pair in the game , you should give it a risk , you win and lose in poker you might flop a king and win all the chips and you might get to lose from ace king with an ace on the flop for example but i would definitely not fold that hand
C
colbear
Visionary
Silver Level
always call
You have hit your 1 in 220 hands he also has 1 in 220 chances of having AA or .45 odds of having you beat . With the UTG in the pot they have 2 chances so odds are doubled .So I think that its an instant call . You get great odds with 2nd best hand they would have a max of 23% chance of cracking your hand . So you are calling with 2 chances of being beat 1) if one of them has pocket Aces (2 of 220 times this will happen) or 2) they have suited connectors and a 23 % chance of sucking out . I don't believe UTG would call with suited connectors so you only have to worry about villain 2 having these . So I think you are getting huge odds to call here If UTG folds you get 75% chance to win and get 100 profit . If plyer UTG calls your odds go down I think to approx. 50% (you gurus out there correct me if I'm wrong I get a little mixed up sometimes with more than 1 opponent) and you get 200% profit .
So 2nd best starting hand in poker INTANT CALL
You have hit your 1 in 220 hands he also has 1 in 220 chances of having AA or .45 odds of having you beat . With the UTG in the pot they have 2 chances so odds are doubled .So I think that its an instant call . You get great odds with 2nd best hand they would have a max of 23% chance of cracking your hand . So you are calling with 2 chances of being beat 1) if one of them has pocket Aces (2 of 220 times this will happen) or 2) they have suited connectors and a 23 % chance of sucking out . I don't believe UTG would call with suited connectors so you only have to worry about villain 2 having these . So I think you are getting huge odds to call here If UTG folds you get 75% chance to win and get 100 profit . If plyer UTG calls your odds go down I think to approx. 50% (you gurus out there correct me if I'm wrong I get a little mixed up sometimes with more than 1 opponent) and you get 200% profit .
So 2nd best starting hand in poker INTANT CALL
C
colbear
Visionary
Silver Level
I disagree why would he push AA here 3 bet yes and hope for a shove or 4 bet by others but he wouldn't push . If I'm wrong oh well I still have a 17 % of a suckout . If not oh well reload
D
Dwarf
Rock Star
Silver Level
Very interesting spot.
Lets put Middle position on AKo AKs or AA.
KK vs that range has 47% equity. meaning -
If UTG raised 3x there are 4.5bb in the pot. When MP re raises to 100bb, you are calling 100bb to win 204.5 OR you need 48.9% Equity to call. (So a fold is profitable)
Now lets say you add QQ+ and AKo, AKs to MP range. Now your kings have 57.8% Equity and a fold is a Losing play.
________________________________________
Now lets take a look adding UTG open range into play.
If UTG is only opening 99+, AQo+ AQs+
MP is only re raising with All in with JJ+ AQs+ and AKo
Your kings in the button have 50% Equity.
(Profitable call)
If MP is only re raising all in with AKs, AKo, QQ+
Then you are supposed to fold.
Assuming UTG is folding as well.
__________________________________________
Finally,
Lets imagine a slightly different situation with UTG opening all in . 100bb
MP calling for 100 bb.
You in the button with KK.
You would be calling 100:201.5 and therefore need 33.1% equity
This is where you need to construct ranges for your opponents.
___________________________________________________
Generally speaking, calling a 100bb 3bet shove on an UTG open raise, with KK is probably a losing deal in the long term.
If find your opponents overvaluing AJs+ 10+ then you could consider calling.
Not alot of good opponents will 3bet shove for 100bb with hands worse than KK.
If you are in a short stacked tournament on the other hand - i'd call a 3bet shove of 20bb with KK in a heartbeat.
Lets put Middle position on AKo AKs or AA.
KK vs that range has 47% equity. meaning -
If UTG raised 3x there are 4.5bb in the pot. When MP re raises to 100bb, you are calling 100bb to win 204.5 OR you need 48.9% Equity to call. (So a fold is profitable)
Now lets say you add QQ+ and AKo, AKs to MP range. Now your kings have 57.8% Equity and a fold is a Losing play.
________________________________________
Now lets take a look adding UTG open range into play.
If UTG is only opening 99+, AQo+ AQs+
MP is only re raising with All in with JJ+ AQs+ and AKo
Your kings in the button have 50% Equity.
(Profitable call)
If MP is only re raising all in with AKs, AKo, QQ+
Then you are supposed to fold.
Assuming UTG is folding as well.
__________________________________________
Finally,
Lets imagine a slightly different situation with UTG opening all in . 100bb
MP calling for 100 bb.
You in the button with KK.
You would be calling 100:201.5 and therefore need 33.1% equity
This is where you need to construct ranges for your opponents.
___________________________________________________
Generally speaking, calling a 100bb 3bet shove on an UTG open raise, with KK is probably a losing deal in the long term.
If find your opponents overvaluing AJs+ 10+ then you could consider calling.
Not alot of good opponents will 3bet shove for 100bb with hands worse than KK.
If you are in a short stacked tournament on the other hand - i'd call a 3bet shove of 20bb with KK in a heartbeat.
Pauliefromgoodfellas
Rock Star
Silver Level
Snap Call with kk against any unknowns 100bb, if it's 1000bb, it's an autofold.
Live some players would never do this without kk/aa, even then only a donk is likely to make this play but it happens all the time.
Live some players would never do this without kk/aa, even then only a donk is likely to make this play but it happens all the time.
C
Chemist
Legend
Silver Level
Three things come to mind.
- UTG might have made the standard raise with AA and be sitting there loving the action.
- The middle player might be defending an AA strongly against an already raised pot.
- Even if the Kings are currently best and the blinds don't wake up with monsters the other two both as you might say 'still have a 17 % of a suckout', so it is still just a gamble.
Do I feel like gambling?
If I can afford it, OP says we're playing within our bankroll,
so what the heck, If I'm wrong oh well I still have a 17 % of a suckout . If not oh well reload.
But if I didn't feel like gambling, I've got nothing invested so could make a case for just letting it go and try to play smaller pots later.
pokerorrifice a few posts back also made a good comment about considering the type of play at different stakes, which would also factor in to the decision on whether to take the gamble or not.
C
colbear
Visionary
Silver Level
I still think odds of them having AA on a 9 player table when you are dealt KK are 4.32 % with their action I would give them a little higher I still think I call .I think if you call this situation 100 times you are going to make a lot of money here
