effective odds on the flop

[Erdnase]

Please help, I really cant grasp this subject. I have just read this post https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/effective-odds-implied-odds-158765/ and think that I have just confused myself even more!
I am playing limit holdem and I am trying to improve my math play. When im on the turn I can play using pot odds v out odds.
When Im on the flop I figure its best to use effective odds -but how, from the thread above it just looks like your comparing your out odds to your pot odds to see if you should justify calling. What if Im on the flop?
Do I take the combinded odds for making my card and turn on the rivers and call is the pot lays me better odds?
Im sorry for not having any examples but Im really not sure how to apply effective odds to my game so I have no histories.

I would just like to check if Im using the correct odds at the correct time.

when all the cards are out - I compare my pot odds to the chance I have the best hand.
On the turn. If im drawing or redrawing I use immediate pot odds V my outs odds to see if I should call to see the river.
On the flop -for a drawing hand I would like to use my effective odds, but at the moment Im using immediate pot odds. Also If i have a strong hand and am unsure weather to call or fold (according to odds or stratergy) I use EV (win odds V pot size and bet size).
If im drawing to the nuts this is the only time I use implied odds.

Am I correct in my methods.
Please, please help This is a fundamental part of my game I cant seem to grasp!

PS. If anyone get me to understand these concept, I will buy you some ice cold beers.

Have fun at the tables.

Erdnase

 

[Goodwooter]

i try and keep it simple...i understand all the odds but i feel you cant overthink it...for one...you should be playing the player, not the cards...second, you should be able to tell, without much thought, if a call is the right move with a quick look at the pot and the bet size and how many players are still in the hand...but then again...you shouldnt be calling anyway...callers lose...its better to fold or raise

 

[empco]

The odds your using are to value your hand only, with limit it's harder but the part of the game (playing the other player) stated above is actually valuing your oponents hands and the odds based on their betting that they are actually improving/filling their hand on the flop,turn,river. Whats he got???
Lets say they lead out strong, and you raise and they reraise preflop.
You call to the flop, flop comes Q88 now your playing a A8.
You bet he raises again. I would put them on AA KK AK AQ, and posibly QQ,JJ, or some crap that he should of laid down instead of playing.
Now, I would only be dreading pok Q's on his part. now since I have just named 6 preflop raise hands and only 1 is a real danger to your trip 8's, you have an 80% better hand. actually I would be raising this guy to the limit, hoping he doesn't fill on the turn or river.
So the turn come and it's a K, now were looking at Q88K, if he leads out, just call. let this thing ride out as cheaply as you can, reasoning is you have already built a substantial pot, and guarding you remaining stack is a prudent move. If the rvr comes like a 2, leaving Q88k2, with no more than 2 suited cards, the flush and strait are out of the picture and only another 8 with a Q,K,2 or pok Q's,K's, or LOL 2's can beat you. the odds of him being raise crazy with any of these hands other than pok Q's or K's is unlikely. Even if this is a average player, let alone a good one.
So valuing your opponents hand, chances are he's short and your in the winners circle.
The different cinario's are limitless, the point is you need to value(run your opponents odds based on their play) to the cards on the board, not just your hand, or your missing pertinant info and will never really get the handle on the odds thing.
GL, and hope this helps

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