Easier to play against pro's than donkeys?!?!?!?!

[Poker Orifice]

My problem with donks is finding their range.......
some of them just shove their stack for value.. like if they get AA firstt hand they shove it so others will believe they shove any hand because they are donks.

So who's the donk? If they're getting others to believe they're the donks but are getting looked up on 100bb open shoves while holding the absolute BEST hand in poker.... how is that bad?


In your example, if you're on the table with really bad players, why would you want to consider calling off 100bb's pre with 99,... just because you think you might be ahead??? I'd think an approach of being more patient would have far less variance & when on tables with 'donks', surely there's ALOT of oppurtunities to pick up chips very easily.

 

[pcgnome]

I've noticed that a lot of fish are quite aggressive with bad hands and I'm constantly paying them off. I'm also finding myself put all my chips in before the flop too.

For example last night I had AKs. UTG raised with AQs about 4BB. I re-raised to 12 BB, there was one caller who had 10 7s, and he called. UTG went all in so did I and the other caller. 10 7s ended up winning with a 4 card straight. This was on a final table, 7 players left, about 15k in the pot.

It's not normal, right?

AK is the best drawing hand out there, but don't over value it. It will hit the flop less than half the time. You need to control the size of the pot. I would have just called UTG's raise, and wait to see the flop. There's no need to 3-bet, and set yourself up for a possible 4-bet. Protect your stack. Especially when your at the final table.

 

[adricarlan]

Good luck

Still winning on the flop, get all my chips in, they call and get lucky

 

[pcgnome]

Still winning on the flop, get all my chips in, they call and get lucky

Keep your pots small, and you'll give yourself an opportunity to get out of a hand with a minimal loss.

 

[canabero]

Thats just fundamentally wrong, Pros will have way less expoitable leaks than a donk, perhaps you mean since vs a competent player that is on the same levelof thinking as you would be easier to hand read him, not getting leveled and/or be on a guessing game as in comparission when facing a donk, but is sooo more profitable to play vs donks/fishes/bad players cuz to exploit them it doesnt require much thinking, advance hand reading skills and/or fancy play postflop, in generall your winrates vs donks/fishes/bad players are going to be hell lot higher than vs Pros.

but tell me what happens when 2 or more donks sit in your table? is easy to lose something like AA against 2 players. reasonable decision is to avoid them but if you play a turbo mtt your blinds die quicky, so everything turns to gambling decision.

 

[ph_il]

Lets replace 'pros' with 'good, thinking' players.

In some situations, it could be easier to play against a good, thinking player than it is a bad player.

For example:

-Good, thinking players might fold a lot of their draw hands when they aren't getting the proper odds to chase.

-Bad players will often chase draws with improper odds

So, if you're in a situation with an over pair to a flush draw board, against a good player, you could bet out large to get them to fold. While against a bad player, you're better off playing a small pot against them knowing they're going to call any bet.

And in some situations, you're better playing against a bad player than a good player.

-A good player isn't going to pay you off on your strong hands if they aren't holding a strong hand themselves. Against these players, you're only winning small pots against them. And if you do win/lose a big pot, it's often cooler situations.

-A bad player will easily pay you off for your big hands. The'll call down bets with TP/WK against your PT/TK, over pair, or set and you'll be winning a lot of big pots against these players. However, results can be swingy as a bad player can hit an out to stack you, but that's going to happen. As long as we are a favorite in the hand and we think long term when playing against bad players, we're winning more than they are over time. So, those few bad hits here and there are meaningless. Keep in mind that it's against bad players where we make most of our money.

Against bad players:

-Don't bluff against call stations
-Raise your big hands preflop for value against bad players
-Value bet your big hands against call stations
-Keep pots small on draw heavy board, unless you have a big draw on the same board. Then you can bet for value.

 

[Tosh_67]

I only played once at higher stakes.. I had a $75 token I won in a freeroll

I was cacking it going up against high stakes players !

The speed of play was slower, less frenetic, less action, more pre flop raising but fewer people going into the flop. After 4 hours I finally blinded out in 41st position out of about 120. I can't say it is easier to play at high stakes based on a sample of one but I was certainly encouraged and pleased at the lack of frenetic shoving of ATC and calling stations as seen in micros.

The micros are a bit of a minefield. But at the end of the day If you are a good player you should be able to play against Sharks or Fish right ?? Altough small stacks and rapidly increasing blinds do make it harder to play patiently

 

[Angelo3]

Do you think it would be easier to have a fighting chance against the people that play for higher stakes? I can't beat the micro's due to a lot of lucky/bad/horrible/russian players! And they are everywhere!

Many micro players have less respect for their chips and for some reason they get rewarded for ridiculous plays!

Well i also taught about it and i think that when you play lagrer buy ins players are more carefull and its easier cuz strategy has big part in that game

 

[ribaric]

I think its easier cuz you have to play with good strategy and there is not just luck like in freerolls

 

[TeUnit]

I think its silly to think that its easier to beat pros than micros, beating micros is relatively straight forward.......value bet, value bet, value bet, lather rinse repeat

 

[YorgDC]

Keep playing your own game, statistics will do the trick eventualy

 

[danntesvarna]

Yes Pro is Pro and The Pro will get your chips,if he understand fast,you are donk!If you are scared of some bad Pro try coin flips with good hands like AK or QQ,JJ.Maybe the Pro go angry after 3rd time and pay with lower kicker and lower pairs.This is what i call a good donkey.

 

[joe777]

4 or 5 donkey on the same table also make it difficult to play.

 

[fearfizz]

I understand your anger but do not forget that those who gamble eventually lose so much money .. playing the patient, takes the time always eventually wins. once asked a Spanish professional player, what is the secret to winning a tournament? and answer the patience..

yeaah you right,but some time you will have a bad hands

 

[mmbossman]

Get your money in ahead, and long term variance with even it out so that you're ahead of the crazies, but I know how frequent bad beats can be frustrating for your mentality.

 

[edgaxs]

Its easier to get cash from donkeys than pros, just have a little patience and play good hands

 

[Karozi615]

One of the oldest and most hilarious poker misconceptions in the book.

No, their is absolutely positively no merit to this thought process. I have played every stake from .1/.2 to 10/20. As soon as you hit .50/1 everyone becomes really really good and you feel like your fighting for the blinds.

Most players would get chewed up and grinded down to dust at even the lower middle stakes.

You have to beat micros. Once you beat them you move to 25nl and a lot of your development should happen at 25nl. At that level you'll see a mix of everything from the worst players to fairly competent. After you establish a win rate at 25nl then you can step into the real world of online poker and find out what your really made of.

 

[IrinaNicole]

Donks)

Way easier to play against donks, for sure you will lose more stupid hands against donks but only when they hit their donk cards but against pros you will get bluffed and outplayed way more, I have played buy-ins ranging from freerolls to 109$ and I can say that I felt very bad playing in the high stake games.

 

[Dorugremon]

Do you think it would be easier to have a fighting chance against the people that play for higher stakes?

It's like anything else: who's playing? Just because the stakes are high doesn't mean the players are any good. I've seen some 30/60 FLHE games that were played much worse than 3/6 FLHE. You see that sometimes: small stakes games filled with tough grinders while across the room there's a game filled with half drunk business men on a convention who're splashing around green and black chips. Where would you like to be playing?

I can't beat the micro's due to a lot of lucky/bad/horrible/russian players! And they are everywhere!

Many micro players have less respect for their chips and for some reason they get rewarded for ridiculous plays!

This looks like confirmation bias. Yes, the idgits who call 6BB cold with something like ( 9,4-off ) and boat up on the river to shoot down two players who went all-in with pocket rockets v. TPTK + NF he hit on the turn and scoop a massive pot tend to stick out. He might luck box it through several hours. Yet, you forget all those other times when that fish played like that and busted out within a half dozen hands.

If you can't beat the micros, it's not because of "lucky/bad/horrible/russian players!"; it's because you're not playing them right. Are you following their bad examples and playing trashy hands against them? Are you paying off like an ATM when they make those big bets that say: "Nuts!"? Are you trying to rob calling stations? Trying to bluff these idgits? These are all big mistakes here, and they'll have you playing their game. It doesn't matter that you raised with ( Kc,Qc ) and the flop comes down ( Ad, Js, 2h ). He won't respect your c-bet, even though, by all rights, you should have an ace. You'll get called by ( 9d, 2d ). After all, he's got a Doose. And two more diamonds might roll off! So, hell yeah, he's calling! He'll call all three barrels. If he doesn't get a diamond on the turn, he'll "think" he still has a shot at catching trips. If he bricks on the river, he'll "reason" he's in so deep now he can't fold. Your king high looses to his pair of deuces. Don't ever try to bluff this type of player. You missed, so check it until you hit a ten, get bet into; call if you're getting odds, otherwise fold, or you check to the river.

As for luck, coolers happen and there's not thing one you can do about that. It's all part of the game.

Sometimes it means you'll have to sit there, throwing away hand after hand, orbit after orbit, while chips fly all around you. You have to do it: wait for a hand that you can value bet into them. They're not paying attention, and won't remember, or care, that you haven't entered a pot in an hour. It sure ain't easy, but who ever promised Poker was easy?

 

[TheBigFinn]

It isn't harder, just different. Bad players are face up which is good, will call very light which is good when you have it and bad when you don't. The game is duller, one dimensional, but profitable. The question is, Are you playing for profit or fun?