Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
Brodermatt
Rock Star
Silver Level
Thanks Dakota!
What does that mean though? Playing within in your bankroll. Is there a certain % or limit that you use? For example, I have a bankroll of $50. What are the bankroll limits? I know everyone's limits would be different, but by rule of thumb, what would they be?
Arjonius
Legend
Silver Level
Someone asks this same type of question here at least once or twice a year. In theory, it's possible for a player to lose at small stakes vs weak opponents but to win at higher stakes vs better ones. In practice however, the probability that you're such a player is so tiny that it's not worth considering.
Better players won't make the kind of ridiculous plays poor ones will, but they can get lucky too. What's more, they wouldn't be good players if they were easy to read / to put on hand ranges. Among other things, this means, they will play sometimes mediocre hands against you. Think about it. If they didn't, they'd be easy to read, and so wouldn't be good players.
What's more, good players have more plays in their arsenals. Quite a few are applicable to small and mid-sized pots, not just the all-in type that you seem to focus on. Lost chips are lost chips no matter if they were lost in one pot or over the course of a few.
Better players won't make the kind of ridiculous plays poor ones will, but they can get lucky too. What's more, they wouldn't be good players if they were easy to read / to put on hand ranges. Among other things, this means, they will play sometimes mediocre hands against you. Think about it. If they didn't, they'd be easy to read, and so wouldn't be good players.
What's more, good players have more plays in their arsenals. Quite a few are applicable to small and mid-sized pots, not just the all-in type that you seem to focus on. Lost chips are lost chips no matter if they were lost in one pot or over the course of a few.
Brodermatt
Rock Star
Silver Level
I've noticed that a lot of fish are quite aggressive with bad hands and I'm constantly paying them off. I'm also finding myself put all my chips in before the flop too.
For example last night I had AKs. UTG raised with AQs about 4BB. I re-raised to 12 BB, there was one caller who had 10 7s, and he called. UTG went all in so did I and the other caller. 10 7s ended up winning with a 4 card straight. This was on a final table, 7 players left, about 15k in the pot.
It's not normal, right?
Fahrenheit451
Rock Star
Silver Level
L
locha2013
Rock Star
Silver Level
You can steal a lot of money from the donkeys, because they play too many cards also bad as good cards. But pros are mostly looking how the opponent plays, that makes it difficult in the late period to win high stacks, when you havent won against the donkeys in the early period of the tournement.
H
HooDooKoo
Visionary
Platinum Level
What's not normal about it? Bad players play badly. Sometimes they get lucky, and this was one of those times.
If you're asking about the trustworthiness of the card-dealing algorithm then just stop. online poker is not rigged. End of story.
-HooDooKoo
ccocco
Rock Star
Silver Level
I understand your anger but do not forget that those who gamble eventually lose so much money .. playing the patient, takes the time always eventually wins. once asked a Spanish professional player, what is the secret to winning a tournament? and answer the patience..
Brodermatt
Rock Star
Silver Level
No not at all!
If I thought online poker is rigged I would have stopped long ago. It was the play itself I was questioning. On a final table, with 2 all in's already. Surely that play is not normal.
H
HooDooKoo
Visionary
Platinum Level
You'll be stunned how badly some final tablers play. Just be happy they got to the final table with you because, in the long run, they are the players that are going to double you up on your way to victory.
-HooDooKoo
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waikato08
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I would rather play a pro than a donk player, because pros have a system that they play by, and you can pick up on that as they play, a kind of tell (if you will).
Donkeys though, they have a system too; they play that way because they have the mindset that they have nothing to loose, you have everything to loose.Donkeys are MEGA loose aggressive players, and are ALWAYS unpredictable. You might beat them 50 hands in a row, and could win half their money, but because they play like that in hevery hand, they catch the nuts, and because yo are think you have beat them every other hand in a row, you've got them again, and that's when they WILL get you. And if you're folding to thier allin plays every time and they are showing rubbish hands everytime you fold, keep foldign- DON'T make the hero call, because they are showing you rubbish to put you on tilt, so you make the mistake of a hero call
Donkeys though, they have a system too; they play that way because they have the mindset that they have nothing to loose, you have everything to loose.Donkeys are MEGA loose aggressive players, and are ALWAYS unpredictable. You might beat them 50 hands in a row, and could win half their money, but because they play like that in hevery hand, they catch the nuts, and because yo are think you have beat them every other hand in a row, you've got them again, and that's when they WILL get you. And if you're folding to thier allin plays every time and they are showing rubbish hands everytime you fold, keep foldign- DON'T make the hero call, because they are showing you rubbish to put you on tilt, so you make the mistake of a hero call
Propane Goat
Grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't
Moderator
I've heard it said that when playing against donks it's hard to tell what they're holding, but if you're playing against pros you will find out that it seems like your cards are always face up and no matter what you do your stack just keeps dwindling. Nothing's easy in poker.
blueskies
Legend
Loyaler
Then just flip your cards over so that you never see your own cards and you play the situation and the villain(s). Then you're truly unpredictable cuz even you dunno what you've got. 
newbie in training
Legend
Silver Level
What makes you think thay its easier to play against people that actually know what your doing most of the time not to mention the fact that its higher stakes meaning a 3bb bet par say is $3 so they might think a little more and then you have the russians wjo are pratcilly throwing their. Money at you saying take it imo the best thing you can do is buy poker tracker 4 or hem 2 and see what your expected profit is sappost to be then youll know where u really stand
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2
K
kmichaels
Rock Star
Silver Level
My opinion about that is quite simple:
-If a tournament is composed by 50% pro players and 50% pure donk players I am 100% sure that the winner will be a donkey player. Why? Because with a field of so many donkeys is too difficult that the pros will eliminate all of donkeys. It´s just a question of probability, and believe me, playing against donkeys the odds of any hands is a lot different (lol).
"Donkey play always get pay", Kmichaels
-If a tournament is composed by 50% pro players and 50% pure donk players I am 100% sure that the winner will be a donkey player. Why? Because with a field of so many donkeys is too difficult that the pros will eliminate all of donkeys. It´s just a question of probability, and believe me, playing against donkeys the odds of any hands is a lot different (lol).
"Donkey play always get pay", Kmichaels
DrazaFFT
public static void
Bronze Level
^^^
It is nice theory, but would the tourney be donks vs pros? pros can only eliminate donks and opposite? in tourney like that when the field is half size of the starting the 75% of donks will be out and 75% of pros will remain, you would expect that in one hand can kick more than one donk but can you kick more that one pro in one hand? so the remaining field will be 3 pros to one donk, what will happen when the field become smaller to half of that size? how many donks will remain then and on and on... Of course that donk can win a tourney, of course that fish can win a hand if that's not happening no one would make money in poker because donks would realize that they can't win tourney and fishes would realize that they cant make money playing and it would be end of poker...
It is nice theory, but would the tourney be donks vs pros? pros can only eliminate donks and opposite? in tourney like that when the field is half size of the starting the 75% of donks will be out and 75% of pros will remain, you would expect that in one hand can kick more than one donk but can you kick more that one pro in one hand? so the remaining field will be 3 pros to one donk, what will happen when the field become smaller to half of that size? how many donks will remain then and on and on... Of course that donk can win a tourney, of course that fish can win a hand if that's not happening no one would make money in poker because donks would realize that they can't win tourney and fishes would realize that they cant make money playing and it would be end of poker...
PoKeRFoRNiA
Legend
Bronze Level
I've played against a pro before in the past. Tim Phan, a player who made a deep run at the main event when Joe Hachem won it all. I can tell you right now. I rather play against typical donkeys at home games or low stakes at casinos than playing against the pros.
If you can't beat microstakes, you definitely will not beat the pros. I have a middle and high school alumni Ben Yu and although I never played with him, I've seen some of his coaching videos on youtube and boy, I don't want him at my table.
If you think you can't beat the game at microstakes because people don't respect your raises, then you are not skilled enough to play poker. If people don't respect your raises, then it's a matter of showdown value and showdown equity. So it means, get your chips in with a better hand or get it in with the best of it.
If you can't beat microstakes, you definitely will not beat the pros. I have a middle and high school alumni Ben Yu and although I never played with him, I've seen some of his coaching videos on youtube and boy, I don't want him at my table.
If you think you can't beat the game at microstakes because people don't respect your raises, then you are not skilled enough to play poker. If people don't respect your raises, then it's a matter of showdown value and showdown equity. So it means, get your chips in with a better hand or get it in with the best of it.
Q
Quasimodo
Rock Star
Silver Level
There may be some truth in that playing at higher stakes tables one is able to do better than against a bunch of 'throw in and prayers'. I know when I 1st started playing, it was at UB, and I did better at the $25 and $50 sng's than at the $5 and $10's. For some reason I found the $10 loosest. Even more so than the $5. You can say that online poker is not rigged and that may be true. But you also have to have noticed a difference with RCG's from one site to another.
Q
Quasimodo
Rock Star
Silver Level
And one thing I look for is how many UTG raises are happening and I'll say it seems sometimes that a program exist to give UTG good pkts. I'm not gonna say which site I've been observing this. You have to admit it would cause more action and the tourney would end sooner and players would move on to the next.