*** August Micro Thread ***

[cAPSLOCK]

How crazy does this seem to you guys?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($9.91)
hERO (Button) ($17.13)
SB ($10.43)
BB ($6)
UTG ($4.93)
MP ($7.10)

Preflop: hERO is Button with A

, K

UTG bets $0.20, 1 fold, CO calls $0.20, hERO raises to $0.60, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.87) K

, 2

, J

(3 players)
UTG bets $0.55, CO raises to $9.31 (All-In), hERO TANKS most of his clock, then folds, UTG calls $3.78 (All-In)

Turn: ($10.53) 2

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($10.53) 3

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $10.53 | Rake: $0.50

 

[slycbnew]

How crazy does this seem to you guys?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($9.91)
hERO (Button) ($17.13)
SB ($10.43)
BB ($6)
UTG ($4.93)
MP ($7.10)

Preflop: hERO is Button with A

, K

UTG bets $0.20, 1 fold, CO calls $0.20, hERO raises to $0.60, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.87) K

, 2

, J

(3 players)
UTG bets $0.55, CO raises to $9.31 (All-In), hERO TANKS most of his clock, then folds, UTG calls $3.78 (All-In)

Turn: ($10.53) 2

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($10.53) 3

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $10.53 | Rake: $0.50

Doesn't seem crazy to me... close to 190 bb's w tptk, another guy behind you left to act, yuck.

Did you have a read on CO that prompted you to fold?

 

[Pokertron3000]

Wow, walls of text in this thread.

My take on things above: i think people should actually never play below 10nl. 2nl and 5nl will just teach you really bad habits that will be excessively expensive to get rid of as you move up.

So what about a player seeking to build a bankroll? Do you think sngs untill you have 20 buy-ins then cash? I know you started off as a sng player so where did you start at cash?

 

[BelgoSuisse]

So what about a player seeking to build a bankroll? Do you think sngs untill you have 20 buy-ins then cash? I know you started off as a sng player so where did you start at cash?

When i moved from sng to cash, I started at 10nl while being properly bankrolled to play 25nl.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

Oh man, that was a lot of info (and arguing)....not gonna lie, but I didn't read all of it. I think I'm just going to go home tonight look through my stats and post some to get a little guidance.

Thanks for the responses though!

 

[cAPSLOCK]

When i moved from sng to cash, I started at 10nl while being properly bankrolled to play 25nl.

Then that leads me to a question for you.

How is the strategy shift from micro SnGs to 10nl all that different than the transition from 02nl to 10nl? I don't really see one path as more noble than the other.

Is it not good to learn skills to beat the game optimally in as many forms, and at as many stakes as possible?

If you play cash like you would a sng you will lose more than you should.
If you play 100nl like you would 05nl you will lose more than you should.

02nl != $2sng != 100nl

I wholeheartedly agree that learning bad poker habits is not optimal. Obviously. I also think it is advantageous to learn "proper poker" before diverging.

There are many forms of poker.
There is more than one way to win.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

How is the strategy shift from micro SnGs to 10nl all that different than the transition from 02nl to 10nl? I don't really see one path as more noble than the other.

i didn't say one was more noble than the other. i said one was less likely to let you bring bad habits along with you. Mostly because the game are more obviously different. Also because SnGs teach you not to limp and force you to be properly aggressive, which 2nl does not really do.

And i don't advocate transitioning from micro SnGs to 10nl, i advocate transitioning from low SnGs to 10nl. Probably building your bankroll up to $250 or $300 playing $5 to $10 STTs before moving to cash.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

Okay, well first off, I don't have enough money to start at 10NL so that's that.

I'm at around 40/19 from the small blind, which seems like I am playing way too many hands over the 2,000 I have at 6 max.

I'm running at -.13bb/hand, just tighten up here. Anyone able to suggest a simple standard range for me to start with here?

In the BB i'm running 15/10 but losing .38bb/hand, does this seem off as well?

Any help is appreciated or any other filters I could run on PT3 would be appreciated.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Okay, well first off, I don't have enough money to start at 10NL so that's that.

I'm at around 40/19 from the small blind, which seems like I am playing way too many hands over the 2,000 I have at 6 max.

I'm running at -.13bb/hand, just tighten up here. Anyone able to suggest a simple standard range for me to start with here?

In the BB i'm running 15/10 but losing .38bb/hand, does this seem off as well?

positional win rates over 2k hands are pretty meaningless. it's about 300 hands per position at 6max. So winning or losing one buy-in on a coin-flip changes your earnings by 200 big blinds and that changes your positional win rate for that position by 0.66 big blind/hand...

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

positional win rates over 2k hands are pretty meaningless. it's about 300 hands per position at 6max. So winning or losing one buy-in on a coin-flip changes your earnings by 200 big blinds and that changes your positional win rate for that position by 0.66 big blind/hand...

Understood, I actually meant 2k hands at those particular positions, but I assume that is also a pretty meaningless sample size as well....but it's all I got.

Thanks for the input tho!

 

[WurlyQ]

By the way this thread is maaaaaaaaaaadnesssss lol

Goal of poker playing experience = Make Moniez and Move up Stakes

Plain and simple, if you can win one way at a lower limit and re-adjust at a higher good for you. If you can't then don't try. If you try and fail...well thats your fault for underestimating bad habits learned. In either case, its not really worth the fundamental argument about sample size because its all relative to people normal volumes IMO. And my even further personal opinion is that anything lower then 50k doesn't mean anything to me . I've put in almost 100k at 50NL and still feel like its not a true representation.

I remember reading a post from Belgo stating that poker is a contiously changing game and to be a winner you need to keep changing also. You can be a winner one day and a loser the next, its quite that simple.

Anyway....I'm not that smartest poster here when it comes to analyzing HUDs or sample sizes, I just know how to do what I do and work hard at it. GL at the tables and maybe this thread will be sane soon again:joyman:

This post is money and nicely summarizes the monster discussion that developed here.

i didn't say one was more noble than the other. i said one was less likely to let you bring bad habits along with you. Mostly because the game are more obviously different. Also because SnGs teach you not to limp and force you to be properly aggressive, which 2nl does not really do.

And i don't advocate transitioning from micro SnGs to 10nl, i advocate transitioning from low SnGs to 10nl. Probably building your bankroll up to $250 or $300 playing $5 to $10 STTs before moving to cash.

+1. I would advocate transitioning to cash from STTs even earlier (say, $200 for 10NL) as long as your long term aspirations are to play cash. If you have a choice, I would think that playing nano cash is better than SnGs because even though the play is pretty lol, learning cash concepts that may not necessarily be applicable is better than learning concepts that are largely irrelevent (ICM push/fold). Just as a disclaimer, this opinion comes from someone who dabbled in non NL cash games waayyyy too long.

 

[Jurn8]

Get grinding mo fo's!!!

6k played so far today !!

 

[kleitches]

Get grinding mo fo's!!!

6k played so far today !!

Tell 'em how many buy-ins you're stuck though, Jake!

 

[cAPSLOCK]

Tell 'em how many buy-ins you're stuck though, Jake!

Ouch... no mercy.

 

[kleitches]

Ouch... no mercy.

Oh but I'm rooting for him to make his epic comeback! He said he'd ship me $1 if he ends up +2 for the day

 

[Jurn8]

3 mo fo's but im sure you dont want to hear what beats/coolers I have taken today!

 

[Stu_Ungar]

3 mo fo's but im sure you dont want to hear what beats/coolers I have taken today!

Same here!

KK vs AA twice
AA vs 45s all in on the turn hits a flush on the river
TTT vs KKK
AK vs 32s all in preflop (absolute drooler)
AA on a AQQ board, vs QQ
2 pair against a drooler, he had a set 9first time he actually had a hand)

Hit quads twice myself .. no action

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

I also have a really weird style where, if someone is stealing and i have 88-jj/aj/aq i flat and play postflop, im sure im only a very very slight winner doing this, its just i prefer playing postflop against a stealing range rather than 3betting with hands like jj, since i have a small 3bet (like 2.3 or something) so by 3betting jj i like turn my hand into a bluff. When faced with a raise that isn't from a steal pos, i generally fold everything except tt-qq and 3bet AA,KK and AK + some bluffs

Honestly, thank you for the ramble, it gave me a nice quick overview and sample for how one successful player would approach play from the sb...

Just about the highlighted part, i wanted to make sure i understood this concept.... you don't 3-bet because they're pretty much only continuing with hands that have you crushed?

One more thing... Rogue said if you can beat -40BB/100 you're doing better than folding every time in the small blind, he was refering to big blinds and not big bets, correct? PT3 uses BB for refering to big bets (2x the big blind)?

 

[Jurn8]

Same here!

KK vs AA twice
AA vs 45s all in on the turn hits a flush on the river
TTT vs KKK
AK vs 32s all in preflop (absolute drooler)
AA on a AQQ board, vs QQ
2 pair against a drooler, he had a set 9first time he actually had a hand)

Hit quads twice myself .. no action

AK<QQ BTN v Blinds
QQ<AK BTN v Blinds
QQ<AA BTN v Blinds
AK<AA BTN v Blinds
AA all in on turn vs gutshots twice they both hit
set over set AI on flop turn and river make board 4 card flush he has 5th flush card
flopped set AI on flop runner runner gutshot hits
flopped set on monotone villian has nut flush

oh and the standard KK<AA

wasnt going to post it but you made me

edit: add straight under straight BTN v Blinds 89 on QJ10 he had AK obvs !!

 

[switch0723]

Just about the highlighted part, i wanted to make sure i understood this concept.... you don't 3-bet because they're pretty much only continuing with hands that have you crushed?

Ye, basically because i'm so nitty with 3bets because i prefer playing postflop with underrepped hands, where villain is capable of value betting 3 streets with what turns out to be the worst hand, coz of that, 3betting jj would be pointless. Not mainly because ill only be called with better hands since that isn't necessarily true, although playing 3bet pots with jacks oop sucks anyway, but mainly because im against good players who won't spew enough postflop in a 3bet pot to make it more profitable than flatting.

Thats just a really long way of saying, due to my 3bet stat, which most regs know is nitty, i get more value out of jj by flatting and playing postflop than i do from 3betting it, although there is value in both, there is just more in flatting

/I wish i had a way with words so i could actually write what i was thinking in legible paragraphs

 

[switch0723]

Since i suck so much at getting my points across, towards the end of september when im back in my house, ill sweat a bunch of you guys as compensation so you can see i don't really know what im doing but just run really good. Someone remind me of this please

 

[Stu_Ungar]

You can sweat me if you want

 

[eNTy]

youve owed me a sweat since like january

 

[switch0723]

Ya i know, you can go first , ill need someone to direct me towards a good mic on amazon or something

 

[RogueRivered]

I'm running 1.09 bb/100 for the month after 11.5K hands -- lol. Too bad I don't get rakeback.