*** August Micro Thread ***

[JimmyBrizzy]

Not to highjack the thread, but I'm having some trouble with my play in the blinds, especially small blind. First off, does anyone have any good readings for play from these positions.

I play 5NL 6max.

I just have trouble knowing when to raise it up or when it's worth flatting, especially say a weak ace against the typical loose passive 5NL table. Is it better to just really nit it up and just fold until we get a monster in these positions.

I'll try and look through my hands this weekend and post some where maybe I have lost or won a lot if I can find any good examples of where I just can't decide what to do.

 

[Dwilius]

Yeah, I think I have a leak there too. Was pointed out to me during sweat session. Think really need to nit up there, some hands that look playable just aren't going to be profitable from the worst position. Would be interesting discussion, what hands to 3bet/flat vs different types of villains.

I actually have a high fold to steal% and usually fold weak aces, its the limped pots and minraises that drag me in too often at passive micros. End up playing as many hands from small blind as the button :s:, wow yea I'm going to concentrate on this next time I play.

 

[WVHillbilly]

What's your VPIP/PFR from the SB?

 

[Jurn8]

can anybody send me the link to download the stars table utility auto hotkey?

 

[WVHillbilly]

http://overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/AutoHotKey

Should I spam every thread you did with this same link?

 

[NineLions]

Since I made my successful move to 50NL i've been running at 6.09BB/100 over 68.6k hands. I play 24 tables ....

What are the chances of convincing you to do a video?

Even just 20 mins or so, just to see how you lay out the tables, how much you autofold, how much you use stats to steal, ect.

 

[Jurn8]

i cant find the stars table utility on that list though. Im not sure If I am looking for the right one?

 

[GeoffLacey]

What are the chances of convincing you to do a video?

Even just 20 mins or so, just to see how you lay out the tables, how much you autofold, how much you use stats to steal, ect.

Yes this. Your graphs are pretty sick man

 

[Johnnybmoto]

So, pretty sure I just can not play Micro stakes cash games. I play (what I think) solid poker but I keep getting people calling down with A rag or K rag and hitting two pair. Stuff like that. Just annoying more than anything. I think I'll stick with SnG's.

 

[Jillychemung]

i cant find the stars table utility on that list though. Im not sure If I am looking for the right one?

http://overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/StarsAssistant
http://overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/StarsUrgentTable
http://overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/StarsPlanner
http://overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/BetPot

These seem to be in your area.

 

[Jurn8]

i have planner and assistant. I had one before where I just pressed f4 or f5 and the tables would auto position, it was sweet for multitabling.

 

[RogueRivered]

Not to highjack the thread, but I'm having some trouble with my play in the blinds, especially small blind. First off, does anyone have any good readings for play from these positions.

I play 5NL 6max.

I just have trouble knowing when to raise it up or when it's worth flatting, especially say a weak ace against the typical loose passive 5NL table. Is it better to just really nit it up and just fold until we get a monster in these positions.

I'll try and look through my hands this weekend and post some where maybe I have lost or won a lot if I can find any good examples of where I just can't decide what to do.

I've played over 8000 hands in the small blind at 5nl 6max. What I've found is that you don't want to fold too much. Folding gets you -40bbs/100. Anything you do that beats -40 is an improvement.

In a nutshell, usually raise limpers or unopened pots with lots of hands. Mostly save your best hands for raising against a raiser + callers. You can also call quite a bit with lesser hands against a raiser + callers, but not so much against a single raiser -- it's just because you have better odds with more players.

I think the same goes in the big blind. Call a few more multiplayer hands and raise to steal or for value with your good hands.

My VPiP/PFR in the SB is 29.1/11.0. In the BB, it's 8.8/3.7. I think I could do quite a bit better in the BB loosening up more than that. In the SB, I used to call more, but now I prefer to raise.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

I've played over 8000 hands in the small blind at 5nl 6max. What I've found is that you don't want to fold too much. Folding gets you -40bbs/100. Anything you do that beats -40 is an improvement.

In a nutshell, usually raise limpers or unopened pots with lots of hands. Mostly save your best hands for raising against a raiser + callers. You can also call quite a bit with lesser hands against a raiser + callers, but not so much against a single raiser -- it's just because you have better odds with more players.

I think the same goes in the big blind. Call a few more multiplayer hands and raise to steal or for value with your good hands.

My VPiP/PFR in the SB is 29.1/11.0. In the BB, it's 8.8/3.7. I think I could do quite a bit better in the BB loosening up more than that. In the SB, I used to call more, but now I prefer to raise.

That is almost the complete opposite of correct play from the blinds.

You are playing 30% of hands from the SB, where you are guaranteed to be OOP for the entire hand.

I would imagine that here you are playing a fit or fold style, you look to flop big and fold if you miss. This is not a good habit to get into.

Position is a crucial concept in NL holdem, more so than limit.

3-bet or fold most hands. Fold MOST hands. Call only occasionally.

As is your range is weak and your position is poor .. you have to change something.. and well.. position is fixed!!

 

[RogueRivered]

That is almost the complete opposite of correct play from the blinds.

You are playing 30% of hands from the SB, where you are guaranteed to be OOP for the entire hand.

I would imagine that here you are playing a fit or fold style, you look to flop big and fold if you miss. This is not a good habit to get into.

Position is a crucial concept in NL holdem, more so than limit.

3-bet or fold most hands. Fold MOST hands. Call only occasionally.

As is your range is weak and your position is poor .. you have to change something.. and well.. position is fixed!!

You can't argue with results. Maybe at higher limits people will punish you for being out of position, but not so much at 5nl.

 

[slycbnew]

You can't argue with results. Maybe at higher limits people will punish you for being out of position, but not so much at 5nl.

Well, actually you CAN argue w results - i.e., results may be even better if etc. Many people ITT would argue the idea of calling alot from SB (I, like you, raise alot from SB) at any level.

What's that Tommy Angelo quote? Don't say position is important to poker, it's like saying water is important to swimming? Something like that? Gotta get that book someday.

Can you filter for completing the SB or calling a pfr and see what the ROI looks like? Just curiosity, but this is usually a huge leak, and your VPIP is enormous. I've never played 5nl - if it's profitable at 5nl, halleleujah, but it won't be at 10nl and up.

 

[RogueRivered]

Can you filter for completing the SB or calling a pfr and see what the ROI looks like? Just curiosity, but this is usually a huge leak, and your VPIP is enormous. I've never played 5nl - if it's profitable at 5nl, halleleujah, but it won't be at 10nl and up.

Yeah, it's all very situation dependent whether raising or calling is better. But it's definitely better than folding in many more situations than people would guess.

Later, I can give you exact figures from my database (it's on the other computer). It mostly holds true at 10nl so far, although my experience there is much shorter. Basically, it seems like any time you fold from the blinds when there are a lot of people already in the pot, the odds say you would have done better to play. With a limper or two in the pot, raising with any two cards can be profitable.

 

[Dwilius]

On a nice little run over the past 4 days since activating bonuses at Stars and Tilt :smile: ...maybe the doomswitch waits until you've almost cleared it to activate :dong:

Was playing nickels at Tilt since didn't have much money there, but now have enough to play dimes. After redopositing at Stars almost rolled for quarters so starting to mix in one juicy quarter table with a couple 10nl ones.

...which is where I was a couple months ago before cashing out and basically taking last month off from ring. I don't want to fall too far behind you other micro guys, trying to follow Lemly to 25nl and not look back.

 

[slycbnew]

Interesting - Rogue, you motivated me to go look at my sb stats. This month, I'm running 14/11 in sb over 33k hands (i run 16/13 overall).

My winrate in the small blind is literally flat - i could've folded every sb and it wouldn't have made a difference this month (I actually would've saved $5).

When I've had a chance to steal (i.e., folded to me in sb) and I raised, I've made a small profit (2BB/100).

For all the times I raised from the sb (which includes steals and 3bets), I'm running 22BB/100.

I'm losing a ton of money in sb, however, when I limp w previous callers or cold call or call a raise - -200BB/100. If I had folded every one of those opportunities, I would've saved $860.

Think I've found a major opportunity here... thanks!

 

[slycbnew]

On a nice little run over the past 4 days since activating bonuses at Stars and Tilt :smile: ...maybe the doomswitch waits until you've almost cleared it to activate :dong:

Was playing nickels at Tilt since didn't have much money there, but now have enough to play dimes. After redopositing at Stars almost rolled for quarters so starting to mix in one juicy quarter table with a couple 10nl ones.

...which is where I was a couple months ago before cashing out and basically taking last month off from ring. I don't want to fall too far behind you other micro guys, trying to follow Lemly to 25nl and not look back.

Very nice! 25nl ftw!

 

[Emperor IX]

 

[WVHillbilly]

Interesting - Rogue, you motivated me to go look at my sb stats. This month, I'm running 14/11 in sb over 33k hands (i run 16/13 overall).

My winrate in the small blind is literally flat - i could've folded every sb and it wouldn't have made a difference this month (I actually would've saved $5).

When I've had a chance to steal (i.e., folded to me in sb) and I raised, I've made a small profit (2BB/100).

For all the times I raised from the sb (which includes steals and 3bets), I'm running 22BB/100.

I'm losing a ton of money in sb, however, when I limp w previous callers or cold call or call a raise - -200BB/100. If I had folded every one of those opportunities, I would've saved $860.

Think I've found a major opportunity here... thanks!

You're pretty nitty overall, right?

Fwiw, I play fr and run 21/16 from the sb. I lose at a little less than 1/2 the rate of just always folding the sb. I ATS 41% from the sb and 3bet 7%.

 

[RogueRivered]

OK, here are some screen shots from my HEM database -- 5nl, 6-max only in the small blind. As you can see, any time you can beat -40bb/100, it's an improvement.

SB All Hands:


SB Folded Hands:


SB Called Hands:


SB Raised Hands:

 

[kleitches]

OK, here are some screen shots from my HEM database -- 5nl, 6-max only in the small blind. As you can see, any time you can beat -40bb/100, it's an improvement.

SB All Hands:
View attachment 22725

SB Folded Hands:
View attachment 22726

SB Called Hands:
View attachment 22727

SB Raised Hands:
View attachment 22728

This is an extremely small sample. In general, you'll find that raising > folding > calling in the small blind.

 

[RogueRivered]

This is an extremely small sample. In general, you'll find that raising > folding > calling in the small blind.

It's big enough to show me what I need to know. You just need to read the charts and see where it's best to do what.

 

[Jurn8]

It's big enough to show me what I need to know. You just need to read the charts and see where it's best to do what.

8k hands is not a big sample