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SwiftHax
Rock Star
Silver Level
AA is nowhere close to nuts in the following situation.
These are annoying situations, but I think depending on the pre-flop action I would have to base my decision. If this was a 3-bet pot and I get donked into/check raised I will have to call if I'm holding red Aces unless I specificaly know that he might be holding KQs in these situations. If the pot was 4-bet then I'm snap calling any shove from anyone.
If I'm not holding an Ace of hearts though, I'm most likely folding as people tend to get shy with their AQs pre-flop.
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Thinker_145
Visionary
Silver Level
AA is only pre-flop nuts and if you don't hit an ace then you will never have the nuts on the flop.
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Stalagna
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Maybe against two opponents:
You: 10h 9h
Opp 1: Qh Qd
Opp 2: As Ks
Flop: 8d Js Qs
Opps 1+2 get all-in ahead of you on the flop. Without considering other dynamics at play, it may be correct to fold the nuts here. 17 cards (9 spades + 2 additional 10s, two 8's, 3 jacks, and one queen) that beat you with 2 draws means the nuts will win about 1/3 of the time from this spot.
You: 10h 9h
Opp 1: Qh Qd
Opp 2: As Ks
Flop: 8d Js Qs
Opps 1+2 get all-in ahead of you on the flop. Without considering other dynamics at play, it may be correct to fold the nuts here. 17 cards (9 spades + 2 additional 10s, two 8's, 3 jacks, and one queen) that beat you with 2 draws means the nuts will win about 1/3 of the time from this spot.
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losties
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yess I had to fold the nuts once. Well I thought it was the nuts. It was 5NL I had an As flush and thr guy hit his straight flush draw with a 9s on the river. I was annoyed but got over it since I know that I made the right play!
Zorba
27
Platinum Level
N
NutageFlop
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I can't believe so many people miss the question (or how the question was phrased).
First of all, Absolute nuts =/= Current nuts.
When do you fold the absolute nuts? The answer is never.
When do you fold the CURRENT nuts? In Hold'em, the situation is extremely rare, it would have to be a DON or Satellite where the odds of getting potentially outdrawn outweight the odds of outlasting a super shorty.
Now in Omaha, there are tons of situations where folding the current nuts is the right play.
For example: You hold 23xx and the flop is A45 two tone. There is a pot-raise, reraise, etc. You may have the nuts right now but virtually any card on the turn assures that your hand is no longer good, and with no redraws.
Someone can have 3678 + the flush draw. Meaning any 2, 3, 6, 7, 8 or that suit is no good. Someone can already have a set. So now you don't want to see an A, 4, 5. That leaves us with the offsuit 9, T, J, Q, K.
In order for your hand to remain the nuts, you'd need two cards that are amongst: The offsuit 9, and an offsuit T,J,Q or K. if no 9, then any other broadway would put a higher possible straight. Sure, all outs are not covered. But we know for a fact that if the pot is multiway, someone is chasing the flush, someone has a set, and someone likely has a bigger straight draw. Someone could also be on the same wheel with a redraw.
23xx is not very playable in Omaha. But if you have say, AA45 on a 367 two-tone flop, with heavy multiway action, folding or as they say, "passing the nuts" may be the right play.
First of all, Absolute nuts =/= Current nuts.
When do you fold the absolute nuts? The answer is never.
When do you fold the CURRENT nuts? In Hold'em, the situation is extremely rare, it would have to be a DON or Satellite where the odds of getting potentially outdrawn outweight the odds of outlasting a super shorty.
Now in Omaha, there are tons of situations where folding the current nuts is the right play.
For example: You hold 23xx and the flop is A45 two tone. There is a pot-raise, reraise, etc. You may have the nuts right now but virtually any card on the turn assures that your hand is no longer good, and with no redraws.
Someone can have 3678 + the flush draw. Meaning any 2, 3, 6, 7, 8 or that suit is no good. Someone can already have a set. So now you don't want to see an A, 4, 5. That leaves us with the offsuit 9, T, J, Q, K.
In order for your hand to remain the nuts, you'd need two cards that are amongst: The offsuit 9, and an offsuit T,J,Q or K. if no 9, then any other broadway would put a higher possible straight. Sure, all outs are not covered. But we know for a fact that if the pot is multiway, someone is chasing the flush, someone has a set, and someone likely has a bigger straight draw. Someone could also be on the same wheel with a redraw.
23xx is not very playable in Omaha. But if you have say, AA45 on a 367 two-tone flop, with heavy multiway action, folding or as they say, "passing the nuts" may be the right play.
dmitriy skripka
Enthusiast
Silver Level
of course I would have folds if I knew the card, but usually having a very strong card, I do of course rate.
A
AcesDJD
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Realistically, this situation could only occur in omaha, not holdem. You might have a set and they have a flush draw with a wrap straight draw and be a favorite over you. In Holdem the nuts are always going to be the favorite.
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oporta17
Rising Star
Silver Level
Sometimes it has happened to me that with the nuts in nl5 you raise like 4bb+1bb per limper, and everyone folds, so sometimes you have to slowplay them, to make them think you don´t have them, what do you think of slowplay the nuts? is it a good strategy or not?
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AcesDJD
Enthusiast
Silver Level
You occasionally should slowplay the nuts against good players. A good player will often just fold if they didn't get a hand on the flop. A poor player may call with nothing but a single overcard or an inside straight draw even when their pot odds aren't good.
So in general, don't slowplay against fish, you want to get as much money into the pot against them. Against a good player you may want to slowplay if they're likely to bet with nothing when you check or more likely to make a mistake when you have confused them.
So in general, don't slowplay against fish, you want to get as much money into the pot against them. Against a good player you may want to slowplay if they're likely to bet with nothing when you check or more likely to make a mistake when you have confused them.
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Bodomovac
Rock Star
Silver Level
You just can'f fold the nuts on the flop man that would be dumb. You can't be that pessimistic.
For example if you have Aspade Kclubs , and the flop is Qspade Jhearts 10clubs, you have absolute nuts, and if guy with J J hand showes all in, you must call the hand.
Then if you are unlucky guy will hit full house on the turn or the river, but statistically odds are on your side so don't ever fold the nuts man.
For example if you have Aspade Kclubs , and the flop is Qspade Jhearts 10clubs, you have absolute nuts, and if guy with J J hand showes all in, you must call the hand.
Then if you are unlucky guy will hit full house on the turn or the river, but statistically odds are on your side so don't ever fold the nuts man.
vinnie
Legend
Silver Level
Clearly not an omaha player. This is not my example, but it's one that someone else made. I guess the odds of this would be low, but Hero has the nuts on the turn, and 0% equity at showdown.
Board:
Hero:
Villain 1:
Villain 2:
Villain 3:
Villain 4:
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There's also hold'em examples where you can have the nuts but have to fold.
Board:
Hero:
Villain 1:
If your opponent was to make a big move here, you would have to give up the pot. You are playing for a tie, at best, but you'll lose it all over 36% of the time. Even if your opponent has just a single heart, he scoops 4.6% of the time, so if there's 6 big blinds out there and he moves in for 100 big blinds and tells you he only has one heart and the same straight, you should fold (even in an unraked game). You're risking 100 to win 3 (33-1), but your break even odd are closer to 21-1. So, if he shoved 62 big blinds (in an unraked game) and showed you the same hand with a single heart, you could make the call. Anything more than that and you lose money.
Note: In the first situation, where he holds the same straight and 2 hearts, you can't even call a pot-sized all-in correctly (assuming he shows you his hand). You're risking 6 to win 3, meaning you need 2-1 odds to break even. But, you only have 1.75-1 odds.
These situations are rare (having the best hand at the moment but against an opponent with the same hand and a chance to improve) but they do happen. Can you fold them? That depends on how much information you have. With perfect information, yes. If there is some uncertainty, then you might have to call when the numbers are close. In reality, I would call a pot-sized shove with the nut straight on a two-tone flop even knowing I could be getting freerolled. There are just too many other hands that I am good against. On a two-tone board with a massive over-shove and just the nut straight, that's probably closer to a fold.