Let's build some bankroll - who's with me?

[Chris_TC]

This looks like a complicated way to justify doing what you want to do (move up sooner). If you are looking at playing as a business, this method may work well. Most people will get bogged down in the math and the simpler "move up here, move down here" rules will be better for them.

I think this method works best if you want to build a bankroll as quickly as possible. If you have settled at a final limit, and you have e.g. 50 buy-ins, then you shouldn't move down at all.

As far as the math goes, it probably looks infinitely more complicated in that long text than it really is.
Take my current BR as an example. I have about $8,800 left, and I'm moving down to 200NL right away. The baseline for moving up is $9,000 ($8,800 + 1 BI), the baseline for moving down is $7,800 ($8,800 - 5 BI).

 

[smd173]

I think this method works best if you want to build a bankroll as quickly as possible.

But is the goal to build a bankroll quickly or to build a bankroll period?

I think your formula is fine. You are right that you won't go broke on it.

Maybe a shift in formula is a good thing, I just worry that it is coming at a time during your biggest drop off.

 

[smd173]

90 144.16%
91 148.81%
92 152.29%
93 151.16%
94 151.29%
95 152.99%
96 154.16%

I don't know if it's because of the holidays or what, but the past week at micro-PLO8 has been pretty crazy. I've met alot of resistance since crossing the 150% barrier. Some of it has been bad beats, some of it has been some poor play on my part. I'm getting a beat, dropping a buy in, playing too many hands, chasing too much, rebuying again, then playing better and eventually ending most days with a small increase. I really shouldn't have to be rebuying to wake me up and play better, I should just be playing better from the start. But despite all of this, I haven't really been tilting off this money. So in that regard, I'm happy.

 

[pantin007]

i like the moving down after 5 buy ins and going back up when ur back to the baseling
i think this might not be a bad formula to follow
i guess i can try to see if it really works in comparison to if u move down when u have less than 20 buy ins
it seems ok

 

[pantin007]

90 144.16%
91 148.81%
92 152.29%
93 151.16%
94 151.29%
95 152.99%
96 154.16%

I don't know if it's because of the holidays or what, but the past week at micro-PLO8 has been pretty crazy. I've met alot of resistance since crossing the 150% barrier. Some of it has been bad beats, some of it has been some poor play on my part. I'm getting a beat, dropping a buy in, playing too many hands, chasing too much, rebuying again, then playing better and eventually ending most days with a small increase. I really shouldn't have to be rebuying to wake me up and play better, I should just be playing better from the start. But despite all of this, I haven't really been tilting off this money. So in that regard, I'm happy.

graph looking good keep it up

 

[Chris_TC]

Maybe a shift in formula is a good thing, I just worry that it is coming at a time during your biggest drop off.

I think I made the shift just in the right moment. I played 3 hours of NL200 today, and I dropped another 5 buy-ins. I'm now down 18 buy-ins, and I'm sooooo glad that I didn't stick to 600NL

No update today, but tomorrow it'll be NL100 as per the new system. I hope this ends soon.

 

[wsorbust]

I think I'm done for the night since PS has gone dead for new years in the U.S.
2 nights ago I forgot how to play, but didn't take a huge hit, but today I managed to come out on a new high. Hopefully I can keep the upward slop going instead of falling into the usual self-inflicted smackdown. Plateau!

 

[Chris_TC]

Progress Update

Day 62: 440% ($8,796)
Day 63: 389% ($7,776)
Day 64: 393% ($7,867)

I had the questionable pleasure of playing 2,000 hands of NL100 today.
I lost two buy-ins during session 1, bringing my grand total during this downswing to no less than 20 buy-ins

Session 2 went a bit better, and I managed to finish the day with almost a full buy-in of profit! Woooo-hoooooooooooooo.
The fact that this amount of profit is little more than an average $3/$6 pot stings a little, but hey, it's still almost a stack, right?

And thanks to my new system, I'm "only" 14 stacks away from playing NL600 again.
I don't know whether the downswing is over, but that little blip at the end of the graph does look promising, don't you think?

 

[calibanboy]

Progress Update

Day 62: 440% ($8,796)
Day 63: 389% ($7,776)
Day 64: 393% ($7,867)

I had the questionable pleasure of playing 2,000 hands of NL100 today.
I lost two buy-ins during session 1, bringing my grand total during this downswing to no less than 20 buy-ins

Session 2 went a bit better, and I managed to finish the day with almost a full buy-in of profit! Woooo-hoooooooooooooo.
The fact that this amount of profit is little more than an average $3/$6 pot stings a little, but hey, it's still almost a stack, right?

And thanks to my new system, I'm "only" 14 stacks away from playing NL600 again.
I don't know whether the downswing is over, but that little blip at the end of the graph does look promising, don't you think?

I think you have been on tilt and need a few days off Chris

 

[smd173]

96 154.16%
97 158.86%
98 165.23%

98 is today, but I will not be playing the rest of today, so I figured I'd post my update. The past 2 days have been better, to say the least. Yesterday, I played alittle better in PLO8, plus I won a $1.10 Triple Draw 2-7 SNG and called it a year. Today, I rang in 2008 with some solid PLO8 play. Feeling good about my play, I played in a $1.75 NL MTT and finished 11th when my JJ ran into QQ. So I went back to PLO8 and had 2 more good sessions. I finished up the day with a 2nd in a $3.40 Razz SNG.

 

[tenbob]

Chris just in case i run over you too hard on nl$100 on stars. whats your username ?

 

[wsorbust]

Well, I would have been much further ahead if I had quit earlier, but the night was still young and I decided to continue and try to climb off the plateau. Making a mistake in a decent pot and playing a few other hands horribly put me on in downward spiral, but I managed to recover.


Progress:

253%
277%
279%

 

[Cheetah]

I think this method works best if you want to build a bankroll as quickly as possible. If you have settled at a final limit, and you have e.g. 50 buy-ins, then you shouldn't move down at all.

I just want to clarify that the reason to move down is to keep the risk low, and moving up to increase profits.

In other words, the objective of optimal BR management is to maximize profits by keeping the risk the same. So maximizing profits is ALWAYS the objective, but subject to the contstraints imposed by risk.

If we ignore risk, then the fastest way to grow is to buy-in for 100% of BR and hope for 10 double-ups. If you start with $1k, that would result in over 1 million in 10 sessions, or more likely $0.

 

[Chris_TC]

I think you have been on tilt and need a few days off Chris

I know that my sick sense of sarcasm may not come across through the forum. I'm actually taking it with a smile now.
I'm not on tilt at all and will gladly send my hand histories to anyone who doesn't believe you can really run this bad without playing bad.

Chris just in case i run over you too hard on nl$100 on stars. whats your username ?

My user name is ChrisTC01 on Stars. Take it easy on me

If we ignore risk, then the fastest way to grow is to buy-in for 100% of BR and hope for 10 double-ups. If you start with $1k, that would result in over 1 million in 10 sessions, or more likely $0.

Of course, but you're not suggesting that playing with 50 buy-ins and never moving down is as risky as buying in for 100%?

I've checked various internet forums, and it seems that virtually every serious NL player has had at least one downswing of around 15 buy-ins. I've even seen graphs with downswings of around 30 buy-ins.
This appears to be about the realistic max for a winning player, even though mathematically there is no max.

 

[Cheetah]

Of course, but you're not suggesting that playing with 50 buy-ins and never moving down is as risky as buying in for 100%?

Of course not. I just wanted to emphasize the reason to move down when losing. Some players don't do it because they feel they will recover faster at the higher level.

I've checked various internet forums, and it seems that virtually every serious NL player has had at least one downswing of around 15 buy-ins. I've even seen graphs with downswings of around 30 buy-ins.
This appears to be about the realistic max for a winning player, even though mathematically there is no max.

Once I finally do optimal BR management, one of the results will be the probability for certain downswing. That can also be estimated in other ways. If I find time, I might do it. I need longer days.

 

[Mugetsu]

I think I will join this. I will post up the results of my first day after Im done which will be in a few hours or so.

 

[Chris_TC]

Maybe I should start talking to Dear Lord, like Jerry Yang. Or maybe I should start betting "1 million" all the time, cause I'm starting to feel a little helpless.

Set of 777 < Set of TTT
AK on completely dry K high board < AA
Nut full house < 1 outer straight flush
AT < A5 (preflop all-in for 150BB, yes, I had a strong read against the maniac)

Screw the previous record, my new downswing all-time high is -23 buy-ins. Not sure whether I'll play a second session today.

 

[Mugetsu]

Actually forget it, I wont. Why am I unable to delete my post? (if I could I wouldnt have needed to double post)

 

[Chris_TC]

Why not? Just join in, we're always happy to see new posters!

I hope my recent posts haven't discouraged anyone from joining in.
I'm fairly sure that this run is a bit of an exception, so if you're a solid player then nothing should stop you from building a great bankroll and updating us on your progress.

 

[Chris_TC]

Progress Update

Day 63: 389% ($7,776)
Day 64: 393% ($7,867)
Day 65: 366% ($7,325)

I did play a second session, totaling about 2,000 hands today once again.

Initally, I took down a few pots but after I lost a 300BB pot as an 85% favorite, followed by running a set of tens into a set of jacks, I had to accept the fact that this swing is apparently far from over.

 

[igotpot]

i might try this

sounds like a good way to show the wife why it is ok for me to play a couple hours a day??? i think i will give it a try!
thanks,
igotpot

 

[pigpen02]

Did not play for three days due to death in family so left out those three days. Jan 2 entered as day 10. In December, I did qualify for January Ironman Silver $15,000 freeroll and four pokerstars PokerListings $2500 freerolls. Perhaps those will add some to my bankroll, but I will be happy with 1%/day increase.

9 114.4%
10 121.0%

 

[wsorbust]

Sorry to hear about your loss pigpen.

I'm going to decide to quit early for the night in anticipation that Letterman and Conan will be decent, since the late night shows decided on new agreements or just to go on without writers. Oh, gaining a few $'s helped a bit in the decision also. I gained $ early, then even more, so I'm satisfied knowing I didn't quit too early, which I think has been delaying me in progress. The only thing that blindsides me sometimes is someone who trips, but I think I'm managing to minimize my losses in bad hands as compared to before.

As far as Chris goes, I know you claim you're playing well and getting unlucky etc..., but it's sure hard to say from that funky downslope graph that it doesn't look like you're tilting just the slightest bit. I know you'll get out of this slump sooner or later.

277%
279%
306%

 

[player7000]

I have a stupid question! What program are you using for your graphs! I am ignorant when it comes to it. And can you just put in your figures and it automatically graphs nit for you? I am stupid and lazy!!!!!!
Oh! and congratulations to you that are growing your bankroll! Mine has been stagnant for about a month! Up,down,up,down! It's driving me crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Cheetah]

I have a stupid question! What program are you using for your graphs! I am ignorant when it comes to it. And can you just put in your figures and it automatically graphs nit for you? I am stupid and lazy!!!!!!
Oh! and congratulations to you that are growing your bankroll! Mine has been stagnant for about a month! Up,down,up,down! It's driving me crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks in advance for the help!

I wrote this graphing application for this thread. You can use it by going here:

http://h3141.dnsalias.com:9001/

Just paste your data in a format like people show in this thread. The application is very forgiving with respect to the format of your data.

Regarding your bankroll, no one is born a winner. It takes time to become one, so don't despair.