# FILLING IN THE HOLES OF ONES GAME

3

#### 32SpittFire

##### Guest
ok,

Posted yesterday or day before on POT odds and calculating them out.

Some responses where helpful, but I am still very confused.

As everyone well knows you really only have 30 seconds to 1 minute to figure your odds. In a live game most of the time for me even less which is really my concern here. I need to make sure I have the understanding of this as it is causing me to play incredibly BAD poker.

OK....HERE GOES.....WHAT IS THE EASY MATH CALUCALTION TO DETERMINE IF YOU SHOULD MAKE THE RIGHT CALL VALUE WISE

Im not sure on the rules of posting here so I will not list the many websites on pot odds I have read to date still confusing me. I understand how to figure out my outs and the percentage to hit. what I do not understand is out to figure out if the odds on the POT are correct for the call.

Any Help here in lamans terms will be greatly appricaiated.

#### twizzybop

##### Legend
To keep things simple is the 4 and 2 rule.... multiply your outs by 4 after the flop, then mulitply those outs by 2 after the turn if you have missed on the flop.

#### Steveg1976

##### ...
Big Pot, small value to call, call. If a small pot and you have to put a lot in with not a very good hand, fold. Other than that you are back to calculating like Twizzy said.

#### twizzybop

##### Legend
LOL oops make that by 2 if you have missed on the turn..

So it goes like this........
Flop... Outs X4
Turn...Outs X2

#### Boltneck

##### Guest
I'll give a simple example to try to demonstrate the point.

Player 1 bets £10
All other players fold
The total money in the pot is \$30 (I'm being imaginative here and assuming there were some preflop bets)

You therefore have 8 outs (6h 6c 6d 6s Jh Jc Jd Js). 8 x 2 = 16
You've therefore got a 16% (odds of 5.25 to 1) chance of hitting a 6 or J on the turn

You need to bet \$10 to win \$30 - so your odds are 3 to 1.

Throw it away. You are getting 3/1 on a 5.25/1 shot.

You have a 32% chance (2 to 1) of hitting your open ended straight by the river (8 outs x 4 = 32%) but don't even think about it unless either you or the villain is all in. If you bet on the turn, based on a 32% chance of hitting your straight by the river, there could be another bet on the river which will make a complete dogs breakfast of the above calculations!

Hope this helps a bit.

Boltneck

#### dj11

##### Legend
Keep in mind that outs is a fleeting concept. In general it is how many cards can improve your hand, not provide you with a winning hand.

There is the notion of dirty outs, cards which will help your opponent but you count as an out when in fact it might be a killer card.

I suggest you keep your outs/hand odds/pot odds simple at first and deal only with straight and flush draw.

Ex; you have 2 hearts, the flop comes 2 more hearts, (13-4=9) you have 9 outs to improve here. It is often bad to think you have the only hearts in play so figure 6 outs. Before the turn you have about a 24% chance to catch a heart. Loosely call that 4-1. (incidentally, a straight draw and flopping trips hoping to pair the board are also in that same range).

When the betting gets to you, the amount you are asked to put in the pot should not exceed 1/4 of what is already in there.

So if there is \$100 in the pot, and the bet to you is only \$10, you call this. You can call up to \$25.

If you're in early position you might want to consider implied odds. The implied part being you feel it is likely that by the end of the round of betting your odds will be satisfied.

Again, think early position, \$100 in pot. Blinds are at 20/40 so you have to bet \$40. If there is only one other in the pot, you don't normally have the odds to make this bet if in first position but if someone acts before you, then the pot is \$140, and it's getting close. If there are other still in the pot, AND you feel they will enter, then you make the call. You can feel sure you odds requirement will be satisfied.

#### DaFrench1

##### Visionary
There is the notion of dirty outs, cards which will help your opponent but you count as an out when in fact it might be a killer card.

"Dirty outs", I'd never come across that term before, but I like it. You learn something every day don't you!

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#### 32SpittFire

##### Guest
WOW....now that what Im talking about to al those who replied.

I cant thank you all enough...very straight forward and to the point.

I understood and have printed all of this out and will read, reread and read them somemore.

Again thank you all

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