Do you think the deck is randomly distributed?

[thwenth1983]

Bad bets.

Good morning everyone.
The poker site I play the most is pokerstars, I really like the site in my opinion is the one with the highest quality, my only complaint is the amount of bad bets that happen at a high frequency.
I play on other sites and on Bet365, it's the site that rarely happens bad bets.
It is very rare for AA not to win and usually the favorite pre flop hand is the winner after the river. I am attaching some played hands.
Which poker site do you think has the least badbets?

 

[HobokenNJ]

Not at all, i think it is distributed in a way where there are more juicy hands for rake or for bots or streamers / whoever they want. I believe its the same programming for cash games and you are going to see the same results in tournaments or whatever and the buyin doesn't effect it.

It is a nice theory, but seems highly implausible for any prominent poker site.

People have a tendency to talk and a decent number of people would need to be involved. Executives deciding to set up the scheme. Middle-level managers overseeing the IT team responsible for the programming. The programmers themselves.

Each of those people would have strong incentives to blab. If credible proof was obtained, one of those people could make a name for themselves in the national press. Maybe write a book about it. Assist lawyers in a class action against the website. Lots of ways of using that information.

In contrast, I don't see the upside for the poker site that would outweigh the risk. A scandal could easily bankrupt the company & expose the executives to legal troubles. Does that risk make sense for a slightly juicier rake? Nah.

Just not believable.

 

[ChrystalClear]

I think everything is done fair at reputable sites. I will say though I do notice in rebuys if tourneys are still under guaranteed prize pool there does seem to pockets pair dealt to half the table for a few hands.

 

[Chalkwill3]

How about this

On online poker how often do you fold garbage cards and then those cards are exactly what you need for huge hands like boats or two pair primarily. This happens to me more than I can even fathom. And here’s the kicker the other day in a cash game where only two players aside from myself were playing. I got the exact same hand cards and shot four hands in a row. Thennnnnn the guy beat me with the same to cards in his hand and the same two cards in my hand two hands In a row same suits and all. the flop was the same numbers but different suits explain that

 

[Alex Sentsov]

I want to believe that it is. But sometimes I doubt it after another crazy move

 

[gabryyyel31]

Assuming you have can do a random shuffle each time, then yes. For practical purposes, online games are random. Home games with hand shuffles, a little less so, but few, if any, people can effectively exploit any clustering that would occur (mostly because you only ever see a small percentage of the deck each hand...).

But more to the point, there's a huge difference between short term patterns that emerge and the distribution over the long term (hundres of millions or billions of hands.) It's easy for people to "see" patterns over the short term, but that doesn't really mean much. It's interesting, in the sense that seeing a coin flip land on heads 100 times in a row is interesting, but short term patterns and recurring hands have little significance. It's only over the long term that you can get a sense of whether or not it is random. :bebored:

 

[nakeyboy]

Cards being random

Do you believe the deck is randomly distributed?

I think all sites have a designated hand that is dealt at times to help or hinder a player

 

[wpilson70]

There's a very simple rule. If you believe online poker is rigged, stop playing except for freerolls.

That said, AA DOES lose a lot live. If you don't think so then you haven't played live enough.

As for things happening online and not live, that's complete BS. In a live tourney my wife saw the board be dealt AAAAK. I know because the dealer called for players to come over and see it. I saw it myself. On TV in the WSOP main event Quad Aces lost to a Royal Flush. I myself once got AA, AA, KK, AA over a 6 hand period.

No one can convince me they play much live if they think online is rigged. I only play live once a month or so and I've seen so many things live that also happen online that either live playing is rigged, or online playing is not.

Finally. Someone in this freeroll site who gets it.
Someone who sees past the end of their nose to view the big picture.

If there is no online poker, there is no CC. And too many players run their mouth about rigged decks, or random cards, and offer nothing as evidence but “I seen it at MY table!!! Aces lost!!! How that not rig?”

And yet they’re still here. Still griping in an online freeroll forum about rigged. Bet they’re still playing even though it’s rigged.

And lol about “not trusting Pokerstars because their god is profit”. Good grief. No site on the planet is set up as a break even charity endeavour. Of course profit is a big deal. And if a rig was ever proven, it would kill that golden goose that lays eggs made of pure profit.

Some people here really need to be smarter than they appear to be.

 

[finaltable1]

The notion of random does not exist.
Deck distribution is based on a algorithm.
That's how random generator works in programming .

This question .

Cards are ..

I doubt..

Don't.

I do not .

sometimes .

Poker ...

There's.
..

The.

I play.

See..

Man...

The notion of random does not exist.
Deck distribution is based on a algorithm.
That's how random generator works in programming .

I'm little bit of a programmer and I totally agree with successlaw. It can not be random by default, it's a simple fact, example of same fact = the fire can't be wet.

From a different(non programmer) point of view - why people are confident that it's random? Since they don't have any infromation about it, except the name Random Number Generator? It's the same reason why people belive that some brands are better than others. They see the frontend, they like it and they don't care about the backend, they actually don't care how it was done. That's why so many people believe in god, santa, jesus, zeus and so on. It explains something, fills in the missing lines in their universe, and it's enough for them.

Why people believe that online poker isn't rigged? I'm not talking about the card dealing process here. I'm talking about the rake. What's the difference for the server, for the processor and memory in that server, when it hosts a) 1000 player freeroll vs b)1000 player $1.1 buy-in tourney vs c) 1000 player $109 buy-in MTT? In all 3 cases computer will consume the same amount of energy and traffic, and converted to money it will be less than 1 dollar.

From such perspective we might see that it's much more profitable for a poker site, (if we'll look at it as a money making structure) to let highrollers win more often in low buy-in tourneys, so that they will lift huge amounts of money from small limits to higher limits, where rake is much higher in actual numbers, yet it might be lower in %, but by the end of the day actual numbers matter.

What is better for professional poker player? To pay $30 monthly fee and play any MTTs with no rake at all, or to pay 9-10% of each buy-in? By the end of the year, poker regular generates many thousands in rake, and this is a pure loss of his profit.

So since we understand that online poker system rigged and the con scheme of rake is based on players greed and supported by shareholders greed, then why do we have to think further and dig into card shuffling? If it can be regulated, and we - the players can not check or control it, then most likely it's also rigged. They can have a HUD in the backend for each player, and those who promote poker, act like ambassadors, invite friends, make streams - these players can have luck factor set to 10/10, regs might have 9/10, other players might have 1/10 to 8/10 depending on the day, or other factors.

I'm not going to tell you guys the stories about bad beats that I had at mid limits against famous poker pros, who normally play at much higher limits, but I can tell you one interesting thing.
Register 10 new email accounts at different email servers. Include some random first/last names in the address names. Use "invite a friend" function at the PokerStars and invite 10 friends using their email addresses. Then go ahead and play 5 MTTs, you will have a final table in one of them, that's for sure. It won't work twice, cause nobody will register using your invitations, but this trick worked well many times and I wasn't the one who discovered it. Just try it, and you'll see for yourself if it's rigged or not.:icon_smur

 

[fishfood80]

I'm little bit of a programmer and I totally agree with successlaw. It can not be random by default, it's a simple fact, example of same fact = the fire can't be wet.

From a different(non programmer) point of view - why people are confident that it's random? Since they don't have any infromation about it, except the name Random Number Generator? It's the same reason why people belive that some brands are better than others. They see the frontend, they like it and they don't care about the backend, they actually don't care how it was done. That's why so many people believe in god, santa, jesus, zeus and so on. It explains something, fills in the missing lines in their universe, and it's enough for them.

Why people believe that online poker isn't rigged? I'm not talking about the card dealing process here. I'm talking about the rake. What's the difference for the server, for the processor and memory in that server, when it hosts a) 1000 player freeroll vs b)1000 player $1.1 buy-in tourney vs c) 1000 player $109 buy-in MTT? In all 3 cases computer will consume the same amount of energy and traffic, and converted to money it will be less than 1 dollar.

From such perspective we might see that it's much more profitable for a poker site, (if we'll look at it as a money making structure) to let highrollers win more often in low buy-in tourneys, so that they will lift huge amounts of money from small limits to higher limits, where rake is much higher in actual numbers, yet it might be lower in %, but by the end of the day actual numbers matter.

What is better for professional poker player? To pay $30 monthly fee and play any MTTs with no rake at all, or to pay 9-10% of each buy-in? By the end of the year, poker regular generates many thousands in rake, and this is a pure loss of his profit.

So since we understand that online poker system rigged and the con scheme of rake is based on players greed and supported by shareholders greed, then why do we have to think further and dig into card shuffling? If it can be regulated, and we - the players can not check or control it, then most likely it's also rigged. They can have a HUD in the backend for each player, and those who promote poker, act like ambassadors, invite friends, make streams - these players can have luck factor set to 10/10, regs might have 9/10, other players might have 1/10 to 8/10 depending on the day, or other factors.

I'm not going to tell you guys the stories about bad beats that I had at mid limits against famous poker pros, who normally play at much higher limits, but I can tell you one interesting thing.
Register 10 new email accounts at different email servers. Include some random first/last names in the address names. Use "invite a friend" function at the PokerStars and invite 10 friends using their email addresses. Then go ahead and play 5 MTTs, you will have a final table in one of them, that's for sure. It won't work twice, cause nobody will register using your invitations, but this trick worked well many times and I wasn't the one who discovered it. Just try it, and you'll see for yourself if it's rigged or not.:icon_smur

Thank you for some info from a programmer. Really makes me think might be something to it. Although I will say that I wouldn't test your theory on the setting up multi accounts and inviting friends for a game because the sites would definitely not appreciate it lol. If you do enjoy playing online def don't wanna get banned..

 

[puzzlefish]

Thank you for some info from a programmer. Really makes me think might be something to it. Although I will say that I wouldn't test your theory on the setting up multi accounts and inviting friends for a game because the sites would definitely not appreciate it lol. If you do enjoy playing online def don't wanna get banned..

He didn't even say to create multiple poker site accounts.. just e-mail accounts, and you won't get banned for inviting these accounts.

 

[Heresthecooler]

I remember reading a computer program cannot be calibrated to be random. There are certain patterns. The pattern may happen every hundred or so hands, but it's there.

 

[matiusaa]

It depends on what you mean by random. I have a friend who is an Informatic Engineer, and he told me that every software need an algorith to generate "random" numbers, and therefore, they aren't really random.

As for the poker game, I think it would be ok to assume its random, even if its done by an algorithm, cause I tend to believe that that algorithm is independant to who are the players at a table.

 

[Eric Salvador]

It’s debatable but when each day I have a certain hand I keep getting it starts to seem a bit off

 

[cyrilflorendooo]

as what they say on youtube it has a computer that randomly draw cards, but I don't believe especially when you are a shortstack in the money against big stack, high chance big stack can river you that you cant even fold

 

[cyrilflorendooo]

try to search onyoutube how pokerstars draw their cards

 

[Therminator]

From a business standpoint, big online poker sites have more to lose than to win by cheating and not ensuring the shuffles are as random as possible. What makes these sites so profitable is that people come and gives them business and money to play poker. But people will only come if the Site is reputable and trustworthy which both are incredibly hard to gain once lost. If they were to purposefully cheat than yah that could make them a bit of extra money, but it simply doesn't stack up to the losses in profit they'd feel if people stopped giving them business altogether if cheating no matter how small was revealed. I just don't believe any big poker site would dare make this big of a risk that could ruin their business.

 

[This Fish Chums]

I'm a software tester who dabbles in programming. When a programmer says "it cannot be random" you have to realize what they are saying. Let's pretend a RNG ONLY used the datetime of the draw as it's calculation on which cards to deal. That RNG would not be truly random BECAUSE if you manipulated the server clock to be a specific time then it will always deal the same cards.

That's how programmers think. They think in all-or-nothing scenarios. Yes, in the real world the server will never be stuck at a specific time. Yes, in the real world number randomizers do not continually produce the same results in the same order. And Yes, in the real world there are a multitude of ways random numbers can then be randomized and randomized again to create an RNG. But because there is the 1 in a billiionth chance of an RNG producing the same results because it just happens to be hitting the exact same variables is astronomically far-fetched. And crying, "Whaaaah, it's not random" to scare non-programmers into thinking it's rigged is unethical. It's a lot like refusing to use GUIDs because it's technically possible for two conflicting records to occur. Show me a programmer who refuses to use GUIDs. Didn't think so.

 

[57noona]

Yes I think that it is as random as it can get. I think that it is still a program that generates the cards being dealt. In live poker I feel the cards are dealt more random only because it is live poker though. Online isn't that far off though. That's my opinion on the subject.

 

[Igorek1313]

of course not ... 150% fact. for 2 consecutive weeks I won in the cache for about $ 100 for 3 weeks right on the first day AA KK QQ BB AK AQ hands on which I go to all in before the flop .. with them became 85% play in all in. I thought .. although before the flop my hands were clearly stronger. (counted only when my hand was stronger). so for a week I planted about $ 400. pokerstars

 

[matiusaa]

It actually depends on what you mean by random. I once talked about this with a friend who is an informatic engineer, and I asked him if programs can make random numbers. He told me than every program needs a logic or has a code to generate "randomness", so technically this wouldn't be random.

Now, to the question, taking into account the above, in practise (and assuming the logic/code is independant on the players at the table) the game should be "random". What happens when you play online, is that you play a lot of hands, and the way that most people mind's work is to remember "bad" things, therefore you are more likely to remember badbeats, and not the hands you won when you had the odds. But if you take a decent sample of hands, I bet you will find that badbeats occur in their probabilistic chances.

 

[German629]

You can say anything, but the deck distributed as it distributed, especially online...
But need to understand that a computer program written by a programmer. As he (or they)
writes (write) know only a very narrow circle of people. Therefore, only a long time playing
on the one site, may notice some specific features...

 

[bgmyshu24]

In online it's a well thought software that think for itself that it's time to loose

 

[finaltable1]

Thank you for some info from a programmer. Really makes me think might be something to it. Although I will say that I wouldn't test your theory on the setting up multi accounts and inviting friends for a game because the sites would definitely not appreciate it lol. If you do enjoy playing online def don't wanna get banned..

Dude, read again and pay attention.
1) I've never mentioned multi poker accounts. In short - I've said "send 10 invitations to 10 different email addresses using PokerStars Invite a Friend function", but indeed I told that it's necessary to have or to register 10 working email accounts. There is no need to accept thee invites or to register new poker accounts, or to deposit, all you have to do is to send 10 invites through your PS account to 10 working emails.

2) I never mentioned "sites" I've only mentioned PokerStars.

3) AND LOL It's not a theory, some person told me about this "method", I've tried it and indeed I've reached the final table same day, it worked for me exactly like that person told me... Maybe coinsedence? WEll who knows, but I've been providing bad beats to my opponents like some cheater in that game. It works just once, maybe it will work again and again if you'll invite real players who will make real money deposits and start playing.

Sounds stupid, unbelievable and like some cheat code for offline game? Yeah< I know, I had same thoughts. However it costs nothing, just 20 minutes of time, and nothing illegal in this.