***Decimation December Chat Thread***

[LuckyChippy]

Ok, thanks for that blanko. I agree, i'm just trying to think more about WA/WB and hand ranges and it's causing me to check in some spots where I might lead.

On a side note, i'm looking at some of my small pots that I lost in HEM hand replayer (>$3 at 10nl) and they seem to be Button raises that get 3-bet or don't connect at all which seems standard.

I'm also calling sometimes in the blind against the button/SB with hands like Q8s and K10s. Whats your view on these types of situations. Do you just fold or call somtimes or raise?

 

[WVHillbilly]

In addition to blanko's comments on hand 2, small pocket pairs are really never WA/WB because there are just so many overcards in your opponent's range. QQ on a K high flop is WA/WB. Because there are only 3 Aces that can come on the turn/river that we really don't want to see. 77 on a Kxx flop might be best but it's so much harder to play on the turn/river because there are so many more overcards.

Basically anything less than say JJ I just cbet.

 

[S93]

Beeing OOP sucks, playing speculative hands like Q8s OOP sucks even more.
So foldem or 3bet them when u suspect he is stealing.

In general u want 2 out of 3 thinks when your playing a hand, if u only have one(or non) you know u shouldnt be in the hand.
Position.
Hand (a big hand that it is)
The inicitive(beeing the prf raiser/3bettor)

 

[LuckyChippy]

Example:

EDIT: Ok thanks sindri.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($10)
CO ($11.12)
Button ($12.85)
SB ($18.87)
Hero (BB) ($10.15)
UTG ($12.23)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, 8

4 folds, SB bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.60) 9

, A

, 5

(2 players)
SB bets $0.60, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.60

Results:
SB didn't show
Outcome: SB won $1.16



Also looking back this seems really bad against a 36/32 11% 3-bet, is it?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($10)
SB ($10)
BB ($11.03)
UTG ($8.13)
MP ($10)
Hero (CO) ($14.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, Q

2 folds, Hero bets $0.40, Button raises $1.20, 3 folds

Total pot: $0.95

Results:
Button didn't show
Outcome: Button won $1.75

 

[LuckyChippy]

Looking over these hands at the time they didn't seem so bad but I can see little (and sometimes big) mistakes that are really terrible.
I need to tighten my 3-bet calling range and just stop it oop all together it's so bad lol.

I also need to get the balance right between protecting my hand and keeping a pot small.

 

[slycbnew]

Also looking back this seems really bad against a 36/32 11% 3-bet, is it?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($10)
SB ($10)
BB ($11.03)
UTG ($8.13)
MP ($10)
Hero (CO) ($14.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, Q

2 folds, Hero bets $0.40, Button raises $1.20, 3 folds

Total pot: $0.95

Results:
Button didn't show
Outcome: Button won $1.75

Against an 11% range, we're 43% and FE is probably pretty high. But take a look specifically at his btn 3bet% - if his range is 11% overall, his btn range may be a lot higher, we're flipping against a 15% range, and FE is generally high against a btn w a huge range.

 

[Marginal]

Meff, at least I got it in good but sucks to waste over an hour of my time just to lose when such a huge favourite.

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, 5.5 Tournament, 60/120 Blinds (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t6418)
Button (t6865)
SB (t11016)
Hero (BB) (t1355)
UTG (t9207)
UTG+1 (t1980)
MP1 (t680)
MP2 (t1513)

Hero's M: 7.53


Preflop: Hero is BB with 6

, 3

, A

, A

4 folds, CO bets t320, 1 fold, SB calls t260, Hero raises to t1280, CO calls t960, SB calls t960


Flop: (t3840) 4

, 9

, 9

(3 players)
SB bets t3840, Hero calls t75 (All-In), 1 fold


Turn: (t3990) 7

(2 players, 1 all-in)


River: (t3990) 7

(2 players, 1 all-in)


Total pot: t3990


Results:
SB had J

, 4

, 7

, 5

(full house, sevens over fours).
Hero had 6

, 3

, A

, A

(flush, Ace high).
Outcome: SB won t3990

 

[slycbnew]

Running good is fun... Half 5plo, half 10plo, all 6max, money is nothing to write home about ($62), but the winrate is very nice...

Feeling better about my stats/agg/hand selection/reading villain types. I'm still a little too tight and a little too passive, but I'm getting there.

 

[Marginal]

Running good is fun... Half 5plo, half 10plo, all 6max, money is nothing to write home about ($62), but the winrate is very nice...

Feeling better about my stats/agg/hand selection/reading villain types. I'm still a little too tight and a little too passive, but I'm getting there.

Honestly, being tight in PLO is much much better than being overly aggressive. I think it is overstated how we should have a vpip of 30% or a pfr of 20. You seem to maintaining a good winrate and you should not change than until you reach a stage where your villains are good enough to adjust their ranges to tighter play but that kind of opponents can only be found well into the mid stakes. The PLO games are way too aggro at the micro and low stakes that tight is the way more profitable play.

 

[slycbnew]

Honestly, being tight in PLO is much much better than being overly aggressive. I think it is overstated how we should have a vpip of 30% or a pfr of 20. You seem to maintaining a good winrate and you should not change than until you reach a stage where your villains are good enough to adjust their ranges to tighter play but that kind of opponents can only be found well into the mid stakes. The PLO games are way too aggro at the micro and low stakes that tight is the way more profitable play.

My winrate is still low for these stakes (I think it's low for these stakes, 6BB/100 after yesterday's run good) and my graph swings all over the place, yesterday was just a real nice run good - if I can get a good winrate over my next 15 - 20k hands, I'll feel pretty good about my winrate.

I completely agree w you that being tighter is better than getting real loose - and my table stats are more widely spread out than at NLHE (i.e., on some tables, I run 12/10, on other tables I run 45/10, and on other tables I'm 3betting like a monkey w any single gapped rundown or better), so I agree that aiming for specific stats is a mistake.

I'm finding, though, that ratcheting up the agg is helping me (again, small sample, only started intentionally getting more agg over last 5k hands, so we'll see) - a lot of players call open raises and 3bets w absolute garbage and play fit or fold postflop, and a lot of players call down w 4th nut (and worse) hands, so increasing the pot size is generally good. I'm getting more comfortable reading board texture and villain types, so I'm able to get away from hands on the flop and able to value bet more thinly on the river - I've even run a couple of river bluff shoves that worked . I get called down w worse hands than I was getting called down w before. I'm not at the WV/Belgo level of bet, bet, bet until they play back at you , but I'm seeing the value of it.

Stealing from CO and BTN is more profitable than I'd expected as well - I'd thought it'd be a mistake to focus on stealing since hand values are relatively close (i.e., BB should call/3bet a lot, making stealing less profitable than in NLHE), but I think I was wrong about that for these stakes, BB's rarely 3bet and if they do call, they generally play fit or fold postflop, at least at these stakes so far.

 

[Marginal]

You should post some hands, I rarely see any on these forums. I was more talking about aggression preflop because I just do not see preflop as being that important in PLO.

But you are right about the fit and fold mentality, people are usually nut peddlers and if they are not nut peddlers they are maniacs and showdown monkeys. So that is why I tend to try and bluff a lot on paired boards and flush boards because a lot of time people just insta muck or check down if they do not hit. bluffing in my opinion is just underrated in PLO because of the mindset that someone will always have the nuts but if someone is going to have the nuts why can't it not be you?

I think I'm just ranting now, hope you know what I'm trying to say.

 

[slycbnew]

You should post some hands, I rarely see any on these forums. I was more talking about aggression preflop because I just do not see preflop as being that important in PLO.

But you are right about the fit and fold mentality, people are usually nut peddlers and if they are not nut peddlers they are maniacs and showdown monkeys. So that is why I tend to try and bluff a lot on paired boards and flush boards because a lot of time people just insta muck or check down if they do not hit. Bluffing in my opinion is just underrated in PLO because of the mindset that someone will always have the nuts but if someone is going to have the nuts why can't it not be you?

I think I'm just ranting now, hope you know what I'm trying to say.

Completely get it, and agree!

I wish I could post hands - for whatever reason, I can't convert hh's anymore, I think there's some goofy setting on my computer that's preventing the suits from showing up correctly (it just shows the code, not the suit - I tried using Chrome instead of IE, didn't help - have no idea what happened, I was able to convert hands up until about two months ago). I'm too embarrassed to post unconverted hands, which sucks, cuz I have several I'd love some feedback on.

I'd love to see more Omaha hands from you and the other Omaha players as well...

 

[Marginal]

We should group together where we do some sweats and review each others play. Lets make people actually interested in grinding PLO instead of just playing to take a break from holdem.

 

[LuckyChippy]

I played this pretty damn bad. Should I have been more aggro on the flop or bet the turn, or even just fold river?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($11.38)
MP ($8.69)
CO ($2.15)
Button ($10)
Hero (SB) ($11.10)
BB ($17.09)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

, Q

UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero bets $0.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.10) 10

, 9

, 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.70, UTG raises to $1.40, Hero calls $0.70

Turn: ($3.90) 3

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($3.90) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3, Hero calls $3

Total pot: $9.90 | Rake: $0.66

Results:
Hero had J

, Q

(two pair, Jacks and nines).
UTG had 8

, 7

(straight, Jack high).
Outcome: UTG won $9.24

 

[WVHillbilly]

I played this pretty damn bad. Should I have been more aggro on the flop or bet the turn, or even just fold river?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($11.38)
MP ($8.69)
CO ($2.15)
Button ($10)
Hero (SB) ($11.10)
BB ($17.09)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

, Q

UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero bets $0.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.10) 10

, 9

, 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.70, UTG raises to $1.40, Hero calls $0.70

Turn: ($3.90) 3

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($3.90) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3, Hero calls $3

Total pot: $9.90 | Rake: $0.66

Results:
Hero had J

, Q

(two pair, Jacks and nines).
UTG had 8

, 7

(straight, Jack high).
Outcome: UTG won $9.24

3bet that flop plz. He's got almost nothing he's willing to stack in his limp/call range. River call or fold would be villain dependent but I'd say fold against most opponents.

 

[slycbnew]

We should group together where we do some sweats and review each others play. Lets make people actually interested in grinding PLO instead of just playing to take a break from holdem.

I'll send you a pm in my morning, this sounds great!

 

[Marginal]

My first withdrawal from ftp (via check) just game today. Sadly though by this time tomorrow, this will probably all be spent

Looking at this picture, I think I need a shave and a haircut.

 

[Suited Frenzy]

My first withdrawal from ftp (via check) just game today. Sadly though by this time tomorrow, this will probably all be spent

Looking at this picture, I think I need a shave and a haircut.

Not a bad 1st withdrawal. Congrats.

You look fine compared to me lol.

I haven't shaved for almost 2 months now. I'm growing a beard for Christmas :icon_bigs

 

[tenbob]

'grats Marginal.

Played the $24 DS on FT tonight, doubled up first hand. Get aces in pre 3 times in the next hour and bust.....fml

 

[Munchrs]

I played this pretty damn bad. Should I have been more aggro on the flop or bet the turn, or even just fold river?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($11.38)
MP ($8.69)
CO ($2.15)
Button ($10)
Hero (SB) ($11.10)
BB ($17.09)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

, Q

UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero bets $0.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.10) 10

, 9

, 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.70, UTG raises to $1.40, Hero calls $0.70

Turn: ($3.90) 3

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($3.90) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3, Hero calls $3

Total pot: $9.90 | Rake: $0.66

Results:
Hero had J

, Q

(two pair, Jacks and nines).
UTG had 8

, 7

(straight, Jack high).
Outcome: UTG won $9.24

I just jam this flop up. Probably 3-bet to about $4.50-$5 and get it in if villian 5-bets or look to shove the turn.

 

[Munchrs]

pretty nice marginal! congrats!

 

[Monoxide]

My first withdrawal from ftp (via check) just game today. Sadly though by this time tomorrow, this will probably all be spent

Looking at this picture, I think I need a shave and a haircut.

gangsta!


Save some dont spend all unless ur ballin and the money is like nothing to you

 

[c9h13no3]

+1.1K on the day. This helped:

SEVEN CARD HI/LO NORMAL $10/$20 - 2009-12-16 00:39:47 (ET)
Seat 1 - C9H13NO3 ($1,243 in chips)
Seat 2 - Bad Reg ($186 in chips)
Seat 4 - Bystander ($139 in chips)
Seat 6 - Bystander ($649 in chips)
Seat 8 - Super Fish ($243 in chips)
C9H13NO3 - Ante $1
Bystander - Ante $1
Super Fish - Ante $1
Bystander - Ante $1
Bad Reg - Ante $1
*** 3rd STREET ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad]
Bystander - Pocket [H H 2d]
Bystander - Pocket [H H Js]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s]
Bystander - Bring-In $4
Bystander - Folds
Super Fish - Raises $10 to $10
C9H13NO3 - Calls $10
Bad Reg - Raises $20 to $20
Bystander - Folds
Super Fish - Calls $10
C9H13NO3 - Calls $10
*** 4TH STREET ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d Kd]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad 3h]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s Ac]
Super Fish - Checks
C9H13NO3 - Checks
Bad Reg - Bets $10
Super Fish - Raises $20 to $20
C9H13NO3 - Raises $30 to $30
Bad Reg - Raises $30 to $40
Super Fish - Calls $20
C9H13NO3 - Calls $10
*** 5TH STREET ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad 3h 5d]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s Ac 6c]
Super Fish - Checks
C9H13NO3 - Checks
Bad Reg - Bets $20
Super Fish - Calls $20
C9H13NO3 - Raises $40 to $40
Bad Reg - Calls $20
Super Fish - Calls $20
*** 6TH STREET ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc Jh]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad 3h 5d 9s]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s Ac 6c Ah]
Super Fish - Bets $20
C9H13NO3 - Raises $40 to $40
Bad Reg - Calls $40
Super Fish - Raises $40 to $60
C9H13NO3 - Raises $40 to $80
Bad Reg - Calls $40
Super Fish - Calls $20
*** RIVER ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc Jh 4c]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad 3h 5d 9s H]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s Ac 6c Ah H]
Super Fish - Checks
C9H13NO3 - Bets $20
Bad Reg - Folds
Super Fish - Calls $20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
C9H13NO3 - Shows [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc Jh 4c] (Three of a kind, kings)
Super Fish - Mucks
C9H13NO3 Collects $586 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($589) | Rake ($3)
Seat 1: C9H13NO3 won Total ($586) HI$586) with Three of a kind, kings [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc Jh 4c - P:Kh,B:Kd,P:Kc,B:Qc,B:Jh]
Seat 2: Bad Reg Folded on the RIVER
Seat 4: Bystander Folded on the 3rd STREET
Seat 6: Bystander Folded on the 3rd STREET
Seat 8: Super Fish HI: [Mucked] [3c 3d 4s Ac 6c Ah Jd]

 

[slycbnew]

+1.1K on the day. This helped:

SEVEN CARD HI/LO NORMAL $10/$20 - 2009-12-16 00:39:47 (ET)
Seat 1 - C9H13NO3 ($1,243 in chips)
Seat 2 - Bad Reg ($186 in chips)
Seat 4 - Bystander ($139 in chips)
Seat 6 - Bystander ($649 in chips)
Seat 8 - Super Fish ($243 in chips)
C9H13NO3 - Ante $1
Bystander - Ante $1
Super Fish - Ante $1
Bystander - Ante $1
Bad Reg - Ante $1
*** 3rd STREET ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad]
Bystander - Pocket [H H 2d]
Bystander - Pocket [H H Js]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s]
Bystander - Bring-In $4
Bystander - Folds
Super Fish - Raises $10 to $10
C9H13NO3 - Calls $10
Bad Reg - Raises $20 to $20
Bystander - Folds
Super Fish - Calls $10
C9H13NO3 - Calls $10
*** 4TH STREET ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d Kd]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad 3h]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s Ac]
Super Fish - Checks
C9H13NO3 - Checks
Bad Reg - Bets $10
Super Fish - Raises $20 to $20
C9H13NO3 - Raises $30 to $30
Bad Reg - Raises $30 to $40
Super Fish - Calls $20
C9H13NO3 - Calls $10
*** 5TH STREET ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad 3h 5d]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s Ac 6c]
Super Fish - Checks
C9H13NO3 - Checks
Bad Reg - Bets $20
Super Fish - Calls $20
C9H13NO3 - Raises $40 to $40
Bad Reg - Calls $20
Super Fish - Calls $20
*** 6TH STREET ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc Jh]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad 3h 5d 9s]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s Ac 6c Ah]
Super Fish - Bets $20
C9H13NO3 - Raises $40 to $40
Bad Reg - Calls $40
Super Fish - Raises $40 to $60
C9H13NO3 - Raises $40 to $80
Bad Reg - Calls $40
Super Fish - Calls $20
*** RIVER ***
C9H13NO3 - Pocket [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc Jh 4c]
Bad Reg - Pocket [H H Ad 3h 5d 9s H]
Super Fish - Pocket [H H 4s Ac 6c Ah H]
Super Fish - Checks
C9H13NO3 - Bets $20
Bad Reg - Folds
Super Fish - Calls $20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
C9H13NO3 - Shows [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc Jh 4c] (Three of a kind, kings)
Super Fish - Mucks
C9H13NO3 Collects $586 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($589) | Rake ($3)
Seat 1: C9H13NO3 won Total ($586) HI$586) with Three of a kind, kings [Kc Kh 8d Kd Qc Jh 4c - P:Kh,B:Kd,P:Kc,B:Qc,B:Jh]
Seat 2: Bad Reg Folded on the RIVER
Seat 4: Bystander Folded on the 3rd STREET
Seat 6: Bystander Folded on the 3rd STREET
Seat 8: Super Fish HI: [Mucked] [3c 3d 4s Ac 6c Ah Jd]

Smokin'...

 

[S93]

Keeping you fashion around the world >LINK<

bye bye