Bankroll, going pro, and 8 weeks of poker

S

Sohmurr

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(Warning: this is a long post and I take it very seriously. However, I do want honesty and as much input as possible. Thank you.)

I basically have the next 8 weeks free and I really, really want to do the best I can to better my poker game (as well as my mindset, poker and otherwise). I'm in college taking a summer course, but it meets only once a week and is laughably easy. I have 6 more weeks of the class and 2 weeks between summer and fall semesters, no job, so I want to get as far ahead in this time as possible.

I deposited $50 on pokerstars back in March and got it up to $90 in a HORSE tournament by taking 3rd, but through poor BR management (due to an eagerness to clear the deposit bonus) and playing in games I shouldn't have played (at least not as high), it's now sadly down to a mere $8. I also have $4 on Full Tilt and expect to have more by June 27 when I'll have played in 4 more wsop Fantasy freerolls.

I have no regrets, though, about playing above my BR. If I were to try to take $40 (the full BR of $0.02/$0.04 LHE games on PS) to $100 (the full BR of $0.05/$0.10 LHE games on PS), playing the $0.02/$0.04 on PS and expecting 2BB/hour then it would take 750 hours to make up the $60 difference. Do I wish I hadn't gone from $90 to $8? Absolutely. But I make no apologies for playing outside my BR. That doesn't mean I don't believe in the fundamental necessity of having a full BR. (The games I lost the most money in were $0.10/$0.25 NL & PL Omaha-8, probably around $30). (Apparently I lost $18 over 4000 hands in $0.01/$0.02 NLHE somehow as well. Looking over the stats from my Hold'em PokerTracker trial, that is the only game where the loss can be almost entirely representative of the number of hands played. I won $9.59 from $0.02/$0.04 LHE over 4300 hands, won $6 from 800 hands of $0.05/$0.10 NLHE, and lost $0.80 at $0.25/$0.50 over 800 hands. All other hold'em games are only 100 hands or less and the money changed is irrelevant to the discussion and other games I can't recall.)

I'll be quite frank here, something I haven't been in the past: I intend to become a professional poker player. Why? Because every time I applied for a part time job in the past, and every time I think about graduating college and doing some mediocre paying, rote laboratory work for the rest of my life (my double major is "Medical Lab Sciences" and "Microbiology & Molecular Biology") I start to get sick to my stomach. To borrow a phrase from "Top Gear" host Jeremy Clarkson in season 10 episode 1, "I'd rather blowtorch my nipples off." There are some family history issues, confidence problems, and psychological discussions I could go into but I'm sure you don't want to hear about it as much as I don't want to talk about it. The short version, as I said above, is that playing professional poker is about all I can think about. Is it the glory? Probably not. Is it the money? Partially yes. Is it the freedom? Yes. More than anything, this is probably the reason. But you can't live off $0.02/$0.04 or really anything below $1/$2 online, and that still requires multi-tabling.

Now, don't lecture me on BR management or the things it takes to go pro. I've read most (I think all) the archived Pocket5's articles on BR and going pro, I've looked over "Professional Poker: The Essential Guide to Playing for a Living" by Mark Blade, and there is probably nothing you can tell me I don't consciously know. But if you think you've got something new, go ahead and share. I've listened to an interview conducted by Jennifer Harman-Traniello and other pros that I doubt many (if anyone) at this site has ever heard and am going to share it for the first time. This American Life To listen, click the "full episode" button below the picture of the chips and table. The poker part of the episode begins at 20:50mm (20 minutes and 50 seconds) and lasts about 27 minutes, but the show is great and while the poker part is the only part of this episode I've listened to before, the show as a whole is funny, smart, and moving and you would probably do well to listen to this whole episode and many, many more.

Back to the crux of this post. I have 8 weeks where I need to set the goals and start to make the "dream" a reality. I don't expect to start making a living by the end of these 8 weeks. I figure it'll take another year or two. But this is what I want. If I have nothing else at this point it's my determination, will, and spirit. Nobody can change my mind. This is what I want but I need help laying the groundwork. I've read many books (Super System 2, Math of Poker, Theory of Poker, Gordon's Little Green Book, Small Stakes Hold'em, and some others) but obviously I'm still struggling. I don't know what you the reader/responder can contribute, but I hope it's something.

Lastly, I have about $250. I was thinking of maybe taking some of it down to the super soft $2/$2 and $2/$4 LHE games at my local card room a couple times a week and working up that way. Yes, this is again not a full BR. But I've gone in with only $40 5 or 6 times before and come ahead ~$20-$40 in all. It would also earn more than trying to take it online. Be honest. Call me stupid and tell me why (although be constructive). Tell me what you think I need to do because, if it's not apparent, I already know what I think I need to do.

(P.S.: If you want me to post more data or a graph from my PokerTracker trial then just ask.)
 
burton_boy

burton_boy

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All I will say is best of luck. There's not that many pro's out there and I can assure you that there is a reason why.
Also just because a game is soft and you think you can beat it doesn't mean you should try, all it takes is one turn of a card and you are royally screwed for your entire roll.
 
I

Inscore77

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In all honesty, you should regret playing out of your roll. It is the fastest way to go broke, and you're lucky you didnt. If you're losing that much at 2nl, there is no reason to go any higher. You will also make more bb/100 by multi tabling, assuming you can handle multiple tables.

Also, you will run higher than 2bb/100 at 2nl. I had a session recently where I bought in with $2, and left with about $30. You have to grind your roll, you cant just expect the big payout
 
MrMuckets

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You need family that's supports what you want to do and not what they want you to do behind you. If you don't have that then you have a very tough road ahead of you. Daniel Negreanu went broke a couple of times in Vegas after building a decent bankroll at the local card rooms around Toronto. He would go to vegas, go broke trying to learn, and go home where he lived with his family and had all their support.

Most pros only dream about going to vegas. They just play locally and grind and grind and grind. They make a living some more comfortable then others. It is a job without glamore for the most part. It is no different than desiring to be a pro athlete. It takes skill and talent and above all tenacity.

I wish you the best of luck.:):):)
 
zachvac

zachvac

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(Warning: this is a long post and I take it very seriously. However, I do want honesty and as much input as possible. Thank you.)
ok I'm going to be completely honest. It may seem a bit harsh, but believe me I'm trying to help. As a college student myself I can somewhat relate.

I basically have the next 8 weeks free and I really, really want to do the best I can to better my poker game (as well as my mindset, poker and otherwise). I'm in college taking a summer course, but it meets only once a week and is laughably easy. I have 6 more weeks of the class and 2 weeks between summer and fall semesters, no job, so I want to get as far ahead in this time as possible.

I deposited $50 on PokerStars back in March and got it up to $90 in a HORSE tournament by taking 3rd, but through poor BR management (due to an eagerness to clear the deposit bonus) and playing in games I shouldn't have played (at least not as high), it's now sadly down to a mere $8. I also have $4 on Full Tilt and expect to have more by June 27 when I'll have played in 4 more WSOP Fantasy Freerolls.

I have no regrets, though, about playing above my BR. If I were to try to take $40 (the full BR of $0.02/$0.04 LHE games on PokerStars) to $100 (the full BR of $0.05/$0.10 LHE games on PokerStars), playing the $0.02/$0.04 on PS and expecting 2BB/hour then it would take 750 hours to make up the $60 difference. Do I wish I hadn't gone from $90 to $8? Absolutely. But I make no apologies for playing outside my BR. That doesn't mean I don't believe in the fundamental necessity of having a full BR. (The games I lost the most money in were $0.10/$0.25 NL & PL Omaha-8, probably around $30). (Apparently I lost $18 over 4000 hands in $0.01/$0.02 NLHE somehow as well. Looking over the stats from my Hold'em PokerTracker trial, that is the only game where the loss can be almost entirely representative of the number of hands played. I won $9.59 from $0.02/$0.04 LHE over 4300 hands, won $6 from 800 hands of $0.05/$0.10 NLHE, and lost $0.80 at $0.25/$0.50 over 800 hands. All other hold'em games are only 100 hands or less and the money changed is irrelevant to the discussion and other games I can't recall.)
ok well first of all (and I may be the only one to say this) I don't think there's much of a problem playing above your bankroll at low stakes? Why is that? Because most people can find another $20 or $50 or whatever so what you have online isn't really your entire bankroll. So it's fine if you wanted to take a shot, but just know that your result is the norm, that if you're playing outside your bankroll you'll likely go close to broke.

I'll be quite frank here, something I haven't been in the past: I intend to become a professional poker player. Why? Because every time I applied for a part time job in the past, and every time I think about graduating college and doing some mediocre paying, rote laboratory work for the rest of my life (my double major is "Medical Lab Sciences" and "Microbiology & Molecular Biology") I start to get sick to my stomach. To borrow a phrase from "Top Gear" host Jeremy Clarkson in season 10 episode 1, "I'd rather blowtorch my nipples off."
Right here, have you ever considered changing your major? Why did you decide to major in these topics if doing them makes you sick to your stomach? No matter how good you are you should always have a backup plan, and the backup plan should not make you rather blowtorch your nipples off. And no offense, but you haven't exactly proven you're good playing at the low-stakes games.



There are some family history issues, confidence problems, and psychological discussions I could go into but I'm sure you don't want to hear about it as much as I don't want to talk about it. The short version, as I said above, is that playing professional poker is about all I can think about. Is it the glory? Probably not. Is it the money? Partially yes. Is it the freedom? Yes. More than anything, this is probably the reason. But you can't live off $0.02/$0.04 or really anything below $1/$2 online, and that still requires multi-tabling.
Well if you really want to make money in online poker and don't plan on becoming one of the best in the world and playing the 1knl+ games (that's $5/$10+), you definitely need to learn to multitable. If you can get up to ~15-20 it's actually possible to make a living probably at 25c/50c. It won't be a good living, you'll be just barely making ends meet probably living in a crappy apartment or something, but if you're good you can probably make ~$15/hour there which full time comes out to about 30k/year. But that means you have to first off be good enough to beat the game for a decent win-rate as well as multi-table that many tables for 40 hours a week, and THAT is a hard job.
Now, don't lecture me on BR management or the things it takes to go pro. I've read most (I think all) the archived Pocket5's articles on BR and going pro, I've looked over "Professional Poker: The Essential Guide to Playing for a Living" by Mark Blade, and there is probably nothing you can tell me I don't consciously know. But if you think you've got something new, go ahead and share. I've listened to an interview conducted by Jennifer Harman-Traniello and other pros that I doubt many (if anyone) at this site has ever heard and am going to share it for the first time. This American Life To listen, click the "full episode" button below the picture of the chips and table. The poker part of the episode begins at 20:50mm (20 minutes and 50 seconds) and lasts about 27 minutes, but the show is great and while the poker part is the only part of this episode I've listened to before, the show as a whole is funny, smart, and moving and you would probably do well to listen to this whole episode and many, many more.

Just make sure you follow the BRM stuff you know, I'd suggest 50+ max buy-ins if you're going to go pro, and 100+ wouldn't hurt. Anything to minimize the emotion when you lose a buy-in to a suckout.

Back to the crux of this post. I have 8 weeks where I need to set the goals and start to make the "dream" a reality. I don't expect to start making a living by the end of these 8 weeks. I figure it'll take another year or two. But this is what I want. If I have nothing else at this point it's my determination, will, and spirit. Nobody can change my mind. This is what I want but I need help laying the groundwork. I've read many books (Super System 2, Math of Poker, Theory of Poker, Gordon's Little Green Book, Small Stakes Hold'em, and some others) but obviously I'm still struggling. I don't know what you the reader/responder can contribute, but I hope it's something.
First off you need to play some hands. The samples you have for all the levels are nothing. If you don't multi-table that's something you'll need to learn again unless you plan on playing the super high-stakes games. But from what I've seen you have no proof that you have what it takes to win. It's fine that you want to give it a shot, but you better make sure you have a back-up plan. And finally, think about the life of an online pro. Sitting in front of a computer, your concentration can't waver for a second, and one mistake can take another hour of work just to make up. Or you could get a job in front of the computer, spend a good amount of time talking to co-workers, have a lot more social time, less focused the entire time, and probably make the same or more money. But since you've said you've made up your mind, I won't lecture any more on that. Just think about playing poker for 40 hours a week every single week (with maybe 2-3 weeks off). Poker for a living may sound fun, but when you think about what you'd actually be doing with literally half of your waking hours during the week, it's not exactly paradise.

Lastly, I have about $250. I was thinking of maybe taking some of it down to the super soft $2/$2 and $2/$4 LHE games at my local card room a couple times a week and working up that way. Yes, this is again not a full BR. But I've gone in with only $40 5 or 6 times before and come ahead ~$20-$40 in all. It would also earn more than trying to take it online. Be honest. Call me stupid and tell me why (although be constructive). Tell me what you think I need to do because, if it's not apparent, I already know what I think I need to do.

Here's what I think you need to do. Get a job. You said you have a class that meets once a week and basically a ton of free time. So get AT LEAST a part time job. Work 20 hours a week, and build some capital. You can still play poker, I'd suggest staying within your bankroll and playing low-stakes online. Play a lot. If you want to play for a living you need to get used to playing A LOT. So you need to learn to multi-table, although first you need to be able to beat the game. I'd start at 5c/10c. If you can confidently beat the level at 1 table, increase to 2, 4, and just put in a ton of hours. On the weekends put in 8-10 hours a day, see how you handle playing for that long. If you're good enough, this will also build your capital you'll need in the future. So you make money from a job, even if it's just minimum wage, you hopefully make money from low-stakes poker, and you spend as little as possible. Next you need to make sure you're good enough. Put in AT LEAST 50k hands at each level and make sure you're beating it for at least a decent winrate before you move up. If you're not you need to get better. Post trouble hands here if you want, study your hands to think about different lines, etc. I'm going to go out on a limb right now and say there's no way you're good enough now to play at a high enough limit to make a living. You'll need to work hard and get better, and during this time you may lose. But know there's no easy path, you have to work for everything in this life, and poker's no exception.

Cliff notes:
1. find a major you like and switch
2. get a job this summer
3. learn to multi-table
4. work hard to get better at poker
5. put in a TON of hands this summer
6. Understand there's no easy way, learn to handle tilt and play within your bankroll
7. once you're there you'll probably realize it's not as easy/fun as it's cracked up to be, but if you still want it bad enough you can probably do it if you really work your ass off for the next 2 years. There's not many people who are actually willing to work that hard for something. Only you can answer the question of whether you want it bad enough or not.
 
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Dayne G.

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YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY DO IT!! GO FOR IT, BE EXCITED!

No one can tell you not to do what you already know what you want to do. The ONLY real way of "testing your chops" is putting everything else aside and committing 100% of your time. You'll never be good enough to turn pro until you can spend full-time hrs. doing it... and you'll never have enough time until you quit everything else to try.

You'll never know how difficult it actually is until you get out there and grind... IT IS FLIPPIN BRUTAL! Follow your dream, though... that's what life should be all about.

I'll tell you right now, though, that until you can play in the MUCH BIGGER GAMES, living won't feel like living. Your hourly rate won't nearly cover real life. But I'm not here to tell you not to go for your passion, no one can.

Be ready for a big kick in the ass when you realize that professional poker life is NOT glamorous... it's a grind, it's stressful beyond your imagination, and it can destroy social lives... BUT IT'S OUR PASSION, DAMNIT!

Nuff said! Good luck!
-Dayne
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

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I like #7 Zach. You're gonna have to work your ass off, and surround yourself with poker if you have serious aspirations of playing professionally. When you come out the other side, poker may not be looking so pretty anymore.

People seriously underestimate all the work that goes in to being able to player poker at a high level. I guarantee in the last 2 years, I've spent well over 2000 hours (that'd be a years worth of working a full time job) either reading books, reading online articles, spending time on forums, watching instructional videos, and analyzing my own play. And that's not even counting the actual time I spent playing. And right now I only play 25NL.

Like Zach said, you have to want it bad. You REALLY have to want it, and you have to want it for the right reasons. Not because you might make a lot of money, or because poker is the "easy" way out. You have to enjoy playing the game, and more importantly, spending time studying it. Otherwise, I doubt you're gonna be able to put as much time and effort in that is necessary to succeed.

Don't look at this post like I'm trying to discourage you, because that is honestly not what I'm trying to do. I think it's great that you have this much of an interest in the game. I just don't want you to go at this unprepared and realize 6 months or a year later that you were way over your head.

And FWIW, I'd suggest you switch to No Limit games. I currently make ~$20/hour playing 25NL
 
ChuckTs

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Well the first thing you have to realize is that you are never above variance - playing within your bankroll limits is a habit you have to form, starting now. Cheating and telling yourself things like

I was thinking of maybe taking some of it down to the super soft $2/$2 and $2/$4 LHE games at my local card room a couple times a week and working up that way. Yes, this is again not a full BR. But I've gone in with only $40 5 or 6 times before and come ahead ~$20-$40 in all.
is going to get you in a LOT of trouble. Again, you're never above variance. Right now it doesn't seem to matter much as the money you're playing with isn't your livelihood, but getting into the bad habit of playing out of your bankroll will get you in the end. Read up on posts like these.

I also agree that you should sort your schooling out first and find something you actually enjoy doing. Poker is definitely worth a shot if not for full time then for part-time 'work', but there are plenty of downsides. You might not be good enough. You might not actually like the poker lifestyle of staring at a computer screen for x hours a day. You might underestimate how much studying there is to do away from the tables. You might not have the mental toughness to deal with the swings (especially in fixed limit). Anything could change your mind - all I'm saying is a lot of people fail trying to go pro, and you need a backup when that happens. Whatever, you probably know all this, but really it's something you have to think about.

But ya, I say go for it. Follow your dreams. I finished my trades courses at college back in December, moved to rings and started taking my game seriously (coaching, >20k hands monthly, heavy studying) at about the same time. I've since averaged well over 1k monthly, more than enough for a 22 year old student, and my monthly results are only going up. It's just like anything - you work hard, you get results.

If I could give you one piece of advice it would be to treat it like a serious business. Put in a certain number of hours daily at the tables. Put in more hours for away from the table study. Play not only within your bankroll limits, but play with as little of your BR as you can. Give serious thought to tilt management. Look into coaching. Get/use/study a poker tracking program.

Anyways I'm ranting here because this is something I've thought about a lot myself, but yeah definitely go for it.

Start by putting in as many hands as you can, learn to multitable, PRACTICE PROPER BANKROLL MANAGEMENT, and buy a poker tracker. Post every trouble hand you can here in hand analysis. Take part in the forums and learn as much as you can. Pro is a long way for someone who's at 2c/4c, but you gotta start somewhere. Just start grinding.
 
Monoxide

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Well, im doing something similar soon, in my blog i wrote about how im getting staked for $3000 because im currently low on funds. I believe I can safely play with 30 buyins for 100nl.

BRM is key if you intend to do this for 8 hours a day 4-6 tabling 7 days a week like I intend to do, you gotta be able to take the massive swings that COULD occur, they may or may not. Inevitably variance will catch you even if your phil ivey but if you are a winning player at the very least and have the funds to play with, its easy to recover.

To make money you must have money.

I dont even think $3000 is enough (must play 100nl or higher for good FPP production), i would prefer $6000+ for sure, so much more cushion. $250? nononono, get a job and then deposit a few G's if you are confident in your game to take this seriously.

The only reason I dislike playing micro stakes (what you would be forced to play) in general is that its incredibly poor at FPP production, and FPPs are 1/4 of the reason to play at PokerStars.
 
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feitr

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I would advise you (and granted you don't want to hear it) to consider switching majors at school, or consider doing further schooling in another field depending on how far through you are. I had a shitty 3rd year at university and it really changed what i had wanted to do with my life, but now i'm considering options i hadn't before to try and see what i'm interested in. That said, if you do hate school and have no interest in any job you are going to get from school then maybe playing poker full time is something you could be doing. I totally understand why you would hate to be a lab tech or something for the rest of your life, because that is all that alot of BSc degrees get you if you aren't interested in grad work or med/law etc (and i would rather shoot myself than be a lab tech).

I have to echo the comments about BR management. Perhaps you don't want to hear about it, but you generate habits now and if you make it a habit to play outside of your roll with no regrets what would ever make that change for you? It is easy for most people to replace $50 etc. but if you continue such a habit there is absolutely no future in pro poker for you because over a long term period it isn't a matter of if you go broke but when.

However, since you want advice about how to start i'll try to give my opinion. First of all it would be nice to know your living expenses etc and where you will be at in the next few years. If you are able to live with your parents with few expenses then it is alot easier than if you have to be paying rent/insurance etc etc at the same time. You need a large sum behind you to start if you have alot of expenses (like thousands$$s).

Honestly, i would advise that you redeposit $50 or whatever you are WILLING to lose and try to grind out micro stakes. Learn to multitable, since at low limits this is the only way you will be able to generate enough $$s and it will be a while before you can play higher stakes. Try to play 8 hours a day at times to see if you can handle it (i for one know that i simply could not ever stare at a computer screen playing cash games for more than a 4hrs a day or so) or even if you actually like it. The fact is that it is going to take you a VERY long time to work up to a situation where you could play pro because you are going to need to build a large BR playing micro stakes. Get a summer job to help out with expenses/potentially fund your BR if that is what you want to do with your money. But more than anything, you are just going to have to play a shitload and see if you actually have the potential to be good enough (and you don't really have to be that good) to make somewhat of a living from poker. It is perfectly reasonable to run at over $20/hr at even NL25 with alot of multitabling because the players are very weak. Last month when i was playing NL25 i was making more at poker (a little over $30/hr) than at my summer job ($21/hr). The point is that you don't actually need to be playing NL400 with a 15k BR to make an ok living at poker so long as you play fairly well and don't have alot of expenses. I hate to say this, but if you aren't beating the micro stake cash games, you may have to realistically accept that you are not cut out for such a lifestyle (but that certainly isn't saying that you shouldn't give it a shot and see if you are).

So my advice is to redeposit what you are comfortable losing, play strictly within BR limits, be prepared to have to GRIND YOUR ASS off and realise that if you are going to make this work it is going to take a hell of a long time, learn to multitable, get a summer job to help along. Just be patient and realise that it is going to take a long time at low stakes.
 
Chris_TC

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To OP, I'd definitely recommend to sign up with one of the video training sites (Stoxpoker, Cardrunners, DeucesCracked). This is probably going to help your game a lot more than most books.

If you can get up to ~15-20 it's actually possible to make a living probably at 25c/50c. It won't be a good living, you'll be just barely making ends meet probably living in a crappy apartment or something, but if you're good you can probably make ~$15/hour
I don't think you need to be that good at all. Assuming 16 tables, you'll need a winrate of less than 1.6 PtBB to average $15/hour, and this doesn't include rakeback.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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I don't think you need to be that good at all. Assuming 16 tables, you'll need a winrate of less than 1.6 PtBB to average $15/hour, and this doesn't include rakeback.


Someone who most likely 1-tables and hasn't profited above 10nl? For someone like this I wouldn't call 1.6 PTBB/100 at 50nl easy.
 
Monoxide

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16 tables is ridiculously brutal if you were to grind that shit out, I wouldnt delv near such a feat unless I was very rolled and incredibly confident in my abilities.... plus keeping a stable consistant win rate gg
 
N.D.

N.D.

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Just curious. Why suggest multi-tabling when the person has enough trouble with single-tabling?

Also, I don't know if $50 at a time is enough to cover more than pennies or nickels and dimes. I've noticed I can win really steadily for a long while and then finally climb up a level, do alright, then whoomp right back down a level.

Just saying the swings can be really tough at the lowest levels. I dunno about at higher levels but it's pretty crazy at the lowest, and isn't that where most of us are?
 
S

Sohmurr

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Thanks for the advice/support so far.

To address changing majors: Yes I have thought about it. In fact I'm just changing to the double majors I listed. I've been in school since the fall of 2005 and changed majors (including recently) 3 or 4 times. I figured that this newest change I could deal with if I couldn't make it into poker full time straight out of college (I'm not stupid, I do have a backup plan. I am, however, even trying to calculate the expenses necessary to live in Vegas for 1 year, including food, rent, insurance, poker BR, and everything else). I like the classes enough that I could probably do it for a while. The quote about blowtorching nipples mainly came because I have had one part time job, albeit short lived. I worked for Wal-Mart for a month as a "courtesy associate" which is code for cart-monkey. That horrid experience is probably the reason for my disdain of any prospect of a regular "9-to-5" job and especially my avoidance of part time jobs.

To address multi-tabling: Most of the 4300 hands at the $0.02/$0.04 LHE on PS were multi-tabled. I never went above 8, although I never tried. I spent most of those hands 7-tabling. One of the things that (possibly) hurt me was my reliance on PokerTracker. The stats probably helped alot more than I give credit for, but I began looking too much at my total in the cashier's window and the money graphs on PT and it got me thrown off.

To address BR management: I probably should have practiced better BR management even at these incredibly low levels. I guess I do regret it somewhat.

To address NLHE: I never (or at least never remember) multi-tabled NLHE. The reason, I'm not sure. Obviously it'll be a while before I have the money to MT even the smallest NLHE tables but I'm gonna start back up at $0.02/$0.04 LHE. I'll keep only the $8 I have unless I bust. If I bust I'll either move to FT with my Fantasy Freeroll winnnings and play only there, or I'll redeposit on PS.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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ok honestly you've got the perfect profile of someone who can afford to take a shot at making it pro. No dependents, decent back-up, and pretty much nothing to lose. So my advice is go for it, but as mentioned you can't think of it as easy money, but as a job, although you'll hopefully be having a lot more fun than all the other people doing jobs. As Chuck mentioned, you have to treat is as work, and you truly have to love the game, I don't think you have much hope of making it if it's just for the money, because it really is a grind.

That said, you'll probably fail. Not trying to be mean, just being honest. Is that any reason not to try? Of course not. Just make sure you have a backup for if you fail. So if you really want it, and you really love poker enough, I'd encourage you to take the shot. Even though it's unlikely you'll make it, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain if you do end up making it, assuming you do truly love poker. So give it your all, never settle with giving less than your best, and if you don't make it there's nothing to be ashamed of, and at least you won't have the regret your entire life that you didn't take the shot. Good luck.
 
CAPT. ZIGZAG

CAPT. ZIGZAG

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To borrow a phrase from "Top Gear" host Jeremy Clarkson in season 10 episode 1, "I'd rather blowtorch my nipples off."

"I'd rather get sucked out of an airplane window." ~ Adrian Monk :p


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tenbob

tenbob

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I'm not going to add much here, most has already been said. Studying and posting in HA is a given, as is having a pretty thick skin. How do you define playing professionally ? With $8 tbh your going nowhere very fast. If I was you, I'd take one week out and get some sort of job to finance a smaller roll in order to be able to finance youself for at least nl$10, trust me you could spend your full 8 weeks trying to work with 8 bucks run hot as hell and still be left with only a few hundred bucks at the end of your eight weeks.
 
roundcat

roundcat

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Good for you for following your ambitions! You know what you want, you've done your research and know about bankroll management (and can admit when you're not implementing it). Eight weeks of pretty much nothing to do is a great time to play poker and get more experience with lots of hands. However, with $8 you're probably not going to get far.

I'll echo what others have said about getting a part-time job, both for the summer and during the school year. How about working at a movie theatre? That's what I did during school and it was great. It's generally a fun job, the evening and weekend hours are perfect for students, and you get to see free movies. Working at Wal-Mart, on the other hand, sounds like a nightmare.

The rule of thumb I've heard somewhere is that you shouldn't consider going pro until you're already making more money playing poker than you are at your regular job. Let's also invoke the old phrase, "it takes money to make money." That applies here as well since you can't make a living with a non-existent bankroll. And thus, the part-time job to help you build a base for your poker funds.

Good luck to you and keep us posted on how it's going!
 
F

feitr

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I am, however, even trying to calculate the expenses necessary to live in Vegas for 1 year, including food, rent, insurance, poker BR, and everything else). I like the classes enough that I could probably do it for a while.

So I'm a little confused now. Do you intend to move to vegas and play live poker or planning to do this online??? I really wouldn't advise trying to go pro with live poker unless you have a HUGE amount of money behind you/live experience.

I honestly wouldn't bother trying to do anything with $8. It just isn't enough. I still think you should try to deposit a smaller amount just to see if you can actually beat the micro cash games and get a part time job to help out your BR. Couldn't you do what tenbob said? Look for a shitty labour job that you can do for a couple of weeks and work for $10/hr. 2 weeks and you could deposit enough to play some decent stakes (obviously depends where you live as to this being realistic or not).

But i'm pretty hesitant about suggesting that you deposit a decent amount if you can't necessarily beat the stakes you would start playing. Obviously it is better to deposit $50/$100 and perhaps realise you have too much to work on in your game to consider going pro, than to deposit $500 and lose alot more.

I have no idea about limit, but you might want to consider playing SnGs at lower stakes. Everytime I've started a BR from small amounts i've always started with micro SnGs. Now i don't actually like SnGs, but i also don't like grinding cash games at anything less than NL25, so I've always played SnGs at the start (unless it is a site that offers a good deposit bonus, in which case i tend to deposit the max and start cash right away) then moved up to cash once i hit about 500$.

If you try to start from $8 it could take you months to get to decent stakes. If you are about to beat micro stakes, it is very reasonable, and i mean VERY reasonable to go from $50 to over $500 in a couple of weeks on Stars. But i also think you really need to realise that you must be able to beat the micro stakes before you want to start playing around with larger sums of money.
 
N.D.

N.D.

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Oh 7 tables is different. Kindly disregard my earlier post. I'm sorry. I must have skimmed when I should have been reading.
 
pokertime911

pokertime911

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I think technical use of BR management is overused. BR rules such as the 5% rule are good guidlines but you should take them in stride. Play levels at which you are most combfertable with. That is the best advice I can give because If your buyins are too big or too small your chances of winning are less. Generally when you play higher limits to which your not combfertable to players tend to play very tight. When there are lower limits and prize money that isent even worth playing than you tend to not care and focus on that game. If you find the median game of poker in which it feels more combfertable to you. Also nobody becomes a proffesional poker player overnight and only a small majority of players make a living off poker alone.
 
L

light65536

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I just skimmed this but sounds like you want to go pro. The #1 thing that I think would be important is how much money you have. You need to get a ton of cash because that will determine how much you have to work and everything else.

So you need to get a job or career where you can get a lot of cash quickly. I'd think you'd need between 10k-100k to go pro.
 
V

viking999

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Keep in mind, if you are grinding out with massive multitabling, you are absolutely reliant on fish. At the .50/1 levels and above, this means careful game selection. The good players will absolutely rip you apart, because it is crazy to play anything but TAG at above 8 tables (maybe at limit, but def not no limit). Poker Tracker will easily define your hand ranges and playing against you will be like playing against a hastily written computer program.
 
kadafi

kadafi

Rock Star
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Mar 28, 2007
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I don't think multitabling is neccesary at the .50/1 levels. It can actually be more of a distraction for most people.

My advice is build your bankroll slowly (by working or playing lots of poker) and then just grind it out at .50/1 levels and see how you do.
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
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