Poof
Made in the USA
Silver Level
KD i have lowered my raises since you got me thinking. I have now decided I want no action, I lowered to 5x someone always calls and an A always falls on board and I loose. No more action for me with kk. lol
What do you do when you have KK preflop...and you know you are beat
KD i have lowered my raises since you got me thinking. I have now decided I want no action, I lowered to 5x someone always calls and an A always falls on board and I loose. No more action for me with kk. lol
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markpro
Enthusiast
Silver Level
If you KNOW your beat, you must fold, simple as that. You have a tight player, and he is reraising you all the way. He could also have Queens or Ace King, but Aces is definitly an option and you should really think about what your gonna do next cause he sure isn't bluffing you preflop. If you really believe he has it, then you gotta fold but if ur not sure its said that Kings should always be called due to the fact that most of the time the person doesnt have it, and if he does you can always get lucky. Good luck at the tables! 
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booger_noob
Rising Star
Bronze Level
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azbo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Saying you get no action with KK is you pretty much admitting you're playing poorly. The object in poker is to extract as much value as you can with your winners, and not to rush in to take down the blinds with a 10xBB bet. If you get raised after you make a 10xBB bet you might worry understandably that they could have aces since you made a huge donkey bet and only someone with a premium pair is likely to want to give you action. The problem here is that you're playing your KK horribly so it seems the only time you get action is when you're dominated. It's your fault that happens because you're playing like a donk.
You should win more than you lose with KK even if you're only getting called by premium hands. The odds of having a pair preflop is about 1/17, the odds of that pair being kings is 1 in 221. The odds of someone having AA at the same time is about 1 in 23 for a table with 10 players. It goes down if there's less than 9 other players. Bottom line your kings are beat less than 5% of the time at a large table and less and .05% if you're heads up. There are a lot of donks out there that overplay AK, AQ, KQ, or even pair of J's.
You obviously should be collecting info on other players but how many people fold QQ preflop? If you feel someone is ultratight, don't get in a raising war with them, try and see the flop. There's always some gamble involved but folding KK's preflop is not a very good play in general no matter what your gut tells you.
Poof
Made in the USA
Silver Level
Yes if you read my other post you will see I do not want any action and cannot deal with it. there is always an ace on the board which matches with someones ace rag in their hand. It may work for alot of ppl but I tried it for the past week and a half and been dominated it does not work for me. I am raise the house or fold.
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azbo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Being superstitious in poker is really never going to be strong play. If you play enough hands the math always works out. You factor in your reads and position but the math is the math and saying you always get beat with KK by Ace rags is really just nonsense. You always REMEMBER the bad beats because people get emotional about bad beats. 10% is 10% and that means 1 time in 10, 10% happens. Raise 3-4BB, call most reraises and consider coming back over the top on loose players reraising and you'll win a lot of money. Bet 10xBB and you can expect to see more big beats because you put 330% in the pot and only a maniac or AA is going to call. You're blaming chance for what really amounts to poor play preflop.
KerouacsDog
Legend
Silver Level
we all want action with KK, that's why you raise PF, but if there's an Ace on the flop, then you have to play with caution, but dont be afraid, they might have called with QQ or JJ, but if they then bet like they have Aces, then be careful, because they probably have it.
Poof
Made in the USA
Silver Level
Alright I will give kk another chance but I do really hate that hand. I actually have more faith in ak. I will play it one more week and see what happens, lol
Azbo I have not lost with it when I raise it preflop through the roof, I get no action everyone folds. Its when I put up a 3-4x blind raise I get called by an ace rag and an ace hits.
CanOkie
Enthusiast
Silver Level
10crow10, I think you know the answer. Simply said "knowing he's got me beat....." It sounds like you are a smart enough player so trust your instincts and FOLD!
CanOkie
Enthusiast
Silver Level
My advice shown above is pre-flop. I agree with the posts above, if Ax calls your raise and an Ace hits the flop then it's wise to fold (providing you put your opponent on an Ace). If you don't put him/her on an Ace, then betting is the best course of action.
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dresden1
Rising Star
Bronze Level
only one hand got you beat preflop and that hand is only 80% to win post flop.So assuming that he did have AA(and that aint always the case even in real tight players)you still aint drawing dead.RERAISE.Andif push comes to shove go all in.Thats my 2 cents worth anyway
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Ihatecowboys
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Flat call with KK is underrated imo, though many or most will say otherwise. Often when you 4 bet KK preflop all you end up doing is scaring out those TT/JJ (sometimes even QQ) like hands that will take you to the bank. Then they make an overpair on the flop and think its better than your KK. It's not even important to have positon here, because they WILL think their hand is better than you, sets only happen 1/9 times so they're really a non-issue when you're dealing with tournament chip stacks. It also lets you see if that ace comes up, and you can trust your post-flop reads to get more info on whether or not they have AA if they're super tight.
AK suited I'll pretty much push all the time cause I WANT to force out those weaker PP, and QQ and lower have just too much chance of losing value on the flop so it becomes either push or fold too, but KK almost always has awesome value on the flop, and extra info never hurts. On the other hand, I rarely ever see a time to not raise and reraise and reraise on top of that with AA.
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Sk8surf
Enthusiast
Silver Level
ya all depends on situation i mean if i get till get too flop with decent odds i will make call if i get reraised i mean i dont go nuts when i get reraised on my preflop raise ill just call some times for look but then can be even harder too lay KK down with low flop lol ovs yoru looken too see if flop is 10- A high toss out a bet and see what they do get feel if your worken on Q -A flop he could pos have set lol i mean i ve lost Pkt Ks too Pkt Ks lol allin pre that suked on cash table but ive also hit quads vs AA and then the AA player mostlikly wont fold or if you hit K flop they could put you on pos AK then there in bad shape if you play it right
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azbo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
there's a million ways toplay and more than a million possible outcomes. You need to take everything into consideration (betting, position, preflop action, board) and make a best guess at the proper way to play. Thats what poker is about. Don't listen to people who say Ace rags always hit because they simply don't. People are very emotional about poker and unable to let it go when they feel there was a suckout. The math never changes and over the long haul you'll see eaxactly the amount of bad beats you should expect. The only thing you control is the decisions you make along the way.
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hockeyaddict
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I like to raise a fair amount pending on the situation im in for a tourniment. Early its pretty much all in preflop. Mid tournie 5 to 8x bb. B4 cash all in or half stack if in late pos i just raise min. Once in the money i play them on how im feeling (threated-all in, in control raise 4x, bully 8x, tight 2x or 3x). If someone tight raises me i just call most of the time so i can see if they have ak or hope that they don't hit with an ace.
BelgoSuisse
Legend
Silver Level
That's because you don't play deep enough. I'm pretty sure if you played 10000bb deep, folding KK to a 7bet would be standard.
100bb deep or lower, though, folding KK preflop is a mortal sin.
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mariachi
Rising Star
Bronze Level
most of the times will be an A on the table so if u don,t get the 3rd or a flush or a stright u better fold becouse everyone is calling with an A in their hands ,they don,t care about the kiker they just call or even worst they rise all the time so i start to hate to see an A on the flop turn or river.relly becouse i can,t play anymore my strategy
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Michelle5000
Enthusiast
Silver Level
The way the game has gone online with HUD's...i can get away from KK alot of the time. I find alot of players PF shoving ranges are purely KK and AA and the HUD gives you that information.
So i fold them quite alot. I see many nits at 10nl with stats of 10/2 and its an easy fold with KK. In SNG and MTT's i'm never folding KK..but in ring games i can get away from it. A HUD has probably saved me alot in these situatons. I can recall 3 hands with KK where i folded and the villian turned over AA vs another player.
So i fold them quite alot. I see many nits at 10nl with stats of 10/2 and its an easy fold with KK. In SNG and MTT's i'm never folding KK..but in ring games i can get away from it. A HUD has probably saved me alot in these situatons. I can recall 3 hands with KK where i folded and the villian turned over AA vs another player.
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Michelle5000
Enthusiast
Silver Level
That's because you don't play deep enough. I'm pretty sure if you played 10000bb deep, folding KK to a 7bet would be standard.
100bb deep or lower, though, folding KK preflop is a mortal sin.
heeh Belgo. You must see those players FR with 3bet 1% and super tight at 12/4. And you just know they wouldn't shove or 4bet with AK or QQ. Then again, perhaps players at 50nl aren't so nitty. Some of the nits at 10nl i'm seeing at mo. Its like 5regs per table with 10/4 or 9/2 etc.
BelgoSuisse
Legend
Silver Level
How many hands have you played so far and logged in your PT?
You get dealt KK about once every 221 hands. When that happens, one of your opponents will have AA once every 24 at FR and once every 40 at 6max. So if you have a perfect read on your opponents, you will correctly fold KK to AA approximately once every 5000 hands at FR and once every 8000 hands at 6max.
Of course, not all your opponents are easily read nits. Maybe only one out of 5 villains is? So assuming you do read those nits perfectly, that means you correctly fold KK to AA once every 25000 hands at FR and once every 40000 hands at 6max.
If you claim you can get away from KK a lot of the time, then it probably means you already did quite a few times. Let's say you did it 10 times?
If you have indeed played more than 250k hands at FR or 400k hands at 6max, then i salute your reading ability. Otherwise, what you just told us is only that you have a big leak in your preflop game.
