Tyler's Difficult Spot and Study Thread

[TylerN]

I still hate getting it in here, we only have invested 14 cents come on there's better spots...

i think this sums it up. we essentially have nothing committed in the pot and are in an extremely marginal spot. as played i did fold to the flop raise but was really curious if i was missing any value or not with my FD

 

[imwatcher]

hand two you have a gutshot and fd, I definately think you have FE, who knows what he is doing he is unknown, he could be insane and bluff at any pot, and regardless if they call of there with hands like A10 its good for us, you dont need much FE to be able to get it in with a gutshot and FD, just shove imo

 

[KardKlub]

Hand 2 is a spot which decides if you profit at this game or not. With out reads and what we have invested it's a fold. Come on what's with the big reraise? Tp and a flush draw and you might consider raising but apart from that he has us beat to often to play on in this hand.

 

[KardKlub]

As for hand 1 his raise on the flop is so huge, that he hasn't even noticed what he has left in his stack for the turn. This spells trouble for us IMO more times than a spaz with a draw. I'm folding here 2.

 

[seanDCFC]

This guy never folds to 3-bets, but doenst 3-bet very often. I have no idea if this guy would do this with overpairs but I would assume so. I seen him call 3-bets with all sorts of suited crap but I doubt he would play a flush draw like this. This is a fold right?

VPIP- 30 PFR-18 AF- 1.3 3-bet - 1.5 Hands- 380

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
Hero (SB) ($4)
BB ($2.94)
UTG ($8.43)
MP ($1.02)
Button ($3.27)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, K

1 fold, UTG bets $0.08, 2 folds, Hero raises $0.26, UTG calls $0.22
Flop: ($0.62) 5

, 8

, 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.62, UTG raises $8.13 (All-In), Hero??

 

[seanDCFC]

How about this hand, I didnt like this at all. I was sure that that the sb would call the all-in as they only seemed to bet when they hit.

SB - VPIP 31 PFR 12 AF 5.0 Hands 102
BB - VPIP 30 PFR 18 AF 1.3 Hands 380

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
SB ($5.40)
BB ($4)
Hero (UTG) ($5.35)
MP ($4.03)
CO ($9.36)
Button ($3.43)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J

, K

Hero bets $0.14, 3 folds, SB calls $0.12, BB calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.42) A

, Q

, Q

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($0.42) 10

(3 players)
SB bets $0.21, BB raises $3.86 (All-In), Hero?

 

[Cafeman]

Hand #1, it would depend on dynamics, but I probably call this, because his bet looks like he doesn't really want/expect a call (UNLESS that's what he wants you to think of course!). I've been doing that a lot lately, and being looked up super light
EDIT: hmmm on reflection, I really think for me this could be a fold too. Really, this would depend on table dynamics as much as anything else. Does he seem to be getting frustrated etc.?

Hand #2, fold.

 

[brank]

I don't think that he has T6 in his range tbh or worse FDs. This is 4nl so most people are not semibluffing. I gave him a narrower range but we have about the same equity:

I'm curious to why you dont think T6 is in their range. I see people raise J3o in EP and the like all the time so I think limping in T6 is reasonable, maybe not the o/s one though. Also T6 makes for 2 pair in this hand.

Also I do think fish get agro with draws all the time. This is why I have a huge losing streak with top set lately, always vs OESDs, FDs or some sort of combo draw and at 4nl on Merge. I dont think all fish do this but enough that you cant discount it. I agree that lesser FD dont do this often which is why I only added a couple and they had pair/gutter in them. As for NFDs fish love to go crazy with them so I inlcuded a bunch of them.

Basically I gave villain a ridic wide range to point out that even with a wide range this should be a fold. I was surprised that the equity was even that close.

 

[brank]

This guy never folds to 3-bets, but doenst 3-bet very often. I have no idea if this guy would do this with overpairs but I would assume so. I seen him call 3-bets with all sorts of suited crap but I doubt he would play a flush draw like this. This is a fold right?

VPIP- 30 PFR-18 AF- 1.3 3-bet - 1.5 Hands- 380

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
Hero (SB) ($4)
BB ($2.94)
UTG ($8.43)
MP ($1.02)
Button ($3.27)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, K

1 fold, UTG bets $0.08, 2 folds, Hero raises $0.26, UTG calls $0.22
Flop: ($0.62) 5

, 8

, 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.62, UTG raises $8.13 (All-In), Hero??

If this guy hates folding to 3 bets then I'd raise more. .30 min and go as high as you think they'll call. I'd hate folding this but you might have to. Hes not terribly agro.

 

[brank]

How about this hand, I didnt like this at all. I was sure that that the sb would call the all-in as they only seemed to bet when they hit.

SB - VPIP 31 PFR 12 AF 5.0 Hands 102
BB - VPIP 30 PFR 18 AF 1.3 Hands 380

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
SB ($5.40)
BB ($4)
Hero (UTG) ($5.35)
MP ($4.03)
CO ($9.36)
Button ($3.43)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J

, K

Hero bets $0.14, 3 folds, SB calls $0.12, BB calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.42) A

, Q

, Q

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($0.42) 10

(3 players)
SB bets $0.21, BB raises $3.86 (All-In), Hero?

This is a shitty spot for sure but with the action ahead of you, how little we have invested and your read I think we can fold and not feel to bad about it.

 

[bgomez89]

Hand 1: snap. You have an over pair in a 3bet pot! Also if he never folds to 3bets raise more pre like .32-.36.

 

[seanDCFC]

I realised when I was reviewing that I should have raised bigger. I did in other hands when I 3-bet him, not sure why I didnt here

 

[seanDCFC]

Hand #1, it would depend on dynamics, but I probably call this, because his bet looks like he doesn't really want/expect a call (UNLESS that's what he wants you to think of course!). I've been doing that a lot lately, and being looked up super light
EDIT: hmmm on reflection, I really think for me this could be a fold too. Really, this would depend on table dynamics as much as anything else. Does he seem to be getting frustrated etc.?

I dont know if he was getting frustrated, he was winning some big pots on a few tables we were both on. Although I was raising him quite a lot pre-flop as I felt that I could get a lot of value out of him, he may have been getting fed up of the way I was playing against him.

 

[brank]

Sooooooo, I thought we were 200bbs deep for some reason in that KK hand. Ya, its a call.

 

[fkucdaw0rld]

How about this hand, I didnt like this at all. I was sure that that the sb would call the all-in as they only seemed to bet when they hit.

SB - VPIP 31 PFR 12 AF 5.0 Hands 102
BB - VPIP 30 PFR 18 AF 1.3 Hands 380

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
SB ($5.40)
BB ($4)
Hero (UTG) ($5.35)
MP ($4.03)
CO ($9.36)
Button ($3.43)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J

, K

Hero bets $0.14, 3 folds, SB calls $0.12, BB calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.42) A

, Q

, Q

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($0.42) 10

(3 players)
SB bets $0.21, BB raises $3.86 (All-In), Hero?

it seems like you have to fold in this spot, if it was an open shove then you can make the case for calling but given the action you kind of have to fold...it just seems like such a fishy spot that i wouldnt wana get involved with that hand there...that is a really fukking hard laydown tho

 

[peskey123]

If you're gonna check the turn for pot control then I'd just flat his river bet IMO. Don't really like folding two pair there.

 

[TylerN]

If you're gonna check the turn for pot control then I'd just flat his river bet IMO. Don't really like folding two pair there.

wat? plz quote the hand that your talking about


i no this thread has died but its just because of my exams that are going to be with me the next 2 weeks and with the other sites being shut down its hard for me to find motivation to grind for some reason. i did find a tl;dr post about 3bet/4betting and would like to have others read it. this stuff about polarizing and merging doesn't apply to us yet at the micros but i found it a good read

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15/poker-theory/nlhe-3betting-facing-3bet-988213/

 

[seanDCFC]

What do we do here? All players are unknown.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
MP1 ($2.06)
MP2 ($0.92)
Hero (CO) ($2)
Button ($2.60)
SB ($2)
BB ($2.80)
UTG ($5)
UTG+1 ($1.06)
Preflop: Hero is CO with J

, J

2 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 bets $0.06, Hero raises $0.24, 1 fold, Button calls $0.23, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.22, MP1 raises $0.82, MP2 calls $0.78 Hero???

 

[TylerN]

weird line that ive been seeing lately but i dont think an unknown at 2nl could be doing this really with anything but QQ+ AK and its a fold imo

at higher stakes i think i could make a case for shoving as his range could be a little more light if he thinks you could be trying to iso and i think we would have enough FE to be +ev

 

[seanDCFC]

weird line that ive been seeing lately but i dont think an unknown at 2nl could be doing this really with anything but QQ+ AK and its a fold imo

That seems a good range for this type of play. I am vary wary when someone plays a hand like this at these low stakes as they almost always show up with somethink big. Is there a way on HEM to search for hands where someone limp raises?

 

[_dogmeat]

That seems a good range for this type of play. I am vary wary when someone plays a hand like this at these low stakes as they almost always show up with somethink big. Is there a way on HEM to search for hands where someone limp raises?

Honestly, at these stakes, it's either a bad reg trying to play AK QQ+ deceptively, or a huge fish/whale. I've seen a lot of fish 3/4bet with hands that don't make any sense (K4o etc). I really wouldn't be that scared from the limp-reraise rather than from the call of the raise.

 

[seanDCFC]

Thats why I would like to search for this on HEM as I would like to see what kind of hands people are doing this with. Ive no doubt that some players will show up with trash, but its such a weird way to play a hand.

 

[TylerN]

Honestly, at these stakes, it's either a bad reg trying to play AK QQ+ deceptively, or a huge fish/whale. I've seen a lot of fish 3/4bet with hands that don't make any sense (K4o etc). I really wouldn't be that scared from the limp-reraise rather than from the call of the raise.

^^^^ is why its difficult vs unknowns. did u have any hands on any of them? or any signs of fiishiness? like how much they bought in for or if posting out of turn etc..

Thats why I would like to search for this on HEM as I would like to see what kind of hands people are doing this with

honestly im not that good with HEM and dont use it for its full advantages so hopefully someone like WV can help with this

 

[LuckyChippy]

I've seen limp raises with hands like AT but also AA, I think vs unknowns I fold as it's AA tons.

 

[LuckyChippy]

Oh and looks like that ended up being a pretty good table haha