taarons cash game thread

[brank]

Hand 1. I probs check to the preflop raiser. What are you thinking during the hand that makes you want to donk bet small there?

Hand 2. nh, Nitpicking - I'd raise more PF with premiums at 2nl. No one notices so start building a pot preflop.

Hand 3. While the board is quite dry I still bet at least 1/2 pot and more if the guy is a station. You want to build big pots when you have the nuts and you cant accomplish that by checking. And that min raise is kinda gross too.

 

[taaron]

Hand 1. I probs check to the preflop raiser. What are you thinking during the hand that makes you want to donk bet small there?

o, ok i think prob the best here woulda been a less thin re-raise (i mean a +12 or more) . ..you r right, my thin 3 bet there was def. curious. . .and i need to look at that. . .

Hand 2. nh, Nitpicking - I'd raise more PF with premiums at 2nl. No one notices so start building a pot preflop.

ok. . .ty. . ya sometimes i worry about chasing off. . .but ur a right. . .pot build here w/ rockets should be a better raise. . .

Hand 3. While the board is quite dry I still bet at least 1/2 pot and more if the guy is a station. You want to build big pots when you have the nuts and you cant accomplish that by checking. And that min raise is kinda gross too.

[/quote]
ya i guess i have this "trapping mindset", which is maybe not so much +EV when at the bottom level?. . . .thanks for the comments. . .

I actuaclly have a hand written journal by my screen. . .w/ little notes. . .so this is really good. . .


LOL. . .ok journal read: less trap more cash. . .good?

 

[brank]

o, ok i think prob the best here woulda been a less thin re-raise (i mean a +12 or more) . ..you r right, my thin 3 bet there was def. curious. . .and i need to look at that. . .

I dont really know what you mean here...

ok. . .ty. . ya sometimes i worry about chasing off. . .but ur a right. . .pot build here w/ rockets should be a better raise. . .


I know the feeling but I wouldnt worry about chasing people away. The guy with KQ is never folding preflop to even 5x. If they have cards they like they'll call.


ya i guess i have this "trapping mindset", which is maybe not so much +EV when at the bottom level?. . . .thanks for the comments. . .


Yup, you've nailed it here.

I actuaclly have a hand written journal by my screen. . .w/ little notes. . .so this is really good. . .


LOL. . .ok journal read: less trap more cash. . .good?

Responses in bold...

 

[taaron]

Hand 1. I probs check to the preflop raiser. What are you thinking during the hand that makes you want to donk bet small there?

i meant to say raise +12 (aka +4-6x bb) . . .not re-raise; thought a bit that u were referring to a dif. hand that i had posted earlier-with a linked replay. . .. . . thanks . . i got ur meaning though

 

[Pascal-lf]

don't like hand 1 w/ AQ at all, can you talk through your thinking process on each street?

 

[taaron]

don't like hand 1 w/ AQ at all, can you talk through your thinking process on each street?

ya i sure can, that one was def. speculative though;

Everleaf - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BB: $0.83
Hero (UTG): $3.45
UTG+1: $1.66
MP: $8.83
MP+1: $0.72
CO: $4.05
BTN: $2.04
SB: $1.67
SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02
Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has Q♠ A♦
Hero raises to $0.06, UTG+1 calls $0.06, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.14, fold, BB calls $0.12, Hero calls $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08

[UTG-raise of 3xbb, the table was moving very fast with 3 overly agg./tilty players; had entered 2-3 other hands, w/ a more standard for the positions/ # of limpers to +5-8xbb,
each time i entered w/ a good sized RR only to have the same 2 ppl
just shove on me. . . .w/ complete marginal rags oop on into SD- so i
thought to test the water a bit, or induce a call or re-raise. . .w/ a donk
bet. . .good play or no?]

Flop: ($0.57, 4 players) 7♥ 6♠ A♠
BB checks, Hero bets $0.16, fold, BTN calls $0.16, fold

[BB checks prob. missed as he plays w/ rags;
so i make another small donk bet, thinking BTN may have 2 pair or var. draws, if he does here he is gonna raise my small bet, becuz that is just what this guy does. . . if he has AK i assume the same. . . .

BTN smooth calls, my donk c/bet


Turn: ($0.89, 2 players) 5♦
Hero bets $0.89, BTN raises to $1.74, Hero calls $0.85

[ okay don't think this five helps him at all; but he is gonna try to
represent it; or he puts me on a draw, and re-raises, to try and
buy it from me if i am trying to draw, from experience this guy
goes nuts over any A, so i am really just worried about AK or
maybe we chop-or he is holding a pair; i don't think he is
positionally aware as a player, so hmmmm already comiited, SD
value may hold up/ prob has more value than a fold here]


River: ($4.37, 2 players) 4♦
Hero shows Q♠ A♦ (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 74%, Flop 87%, Turn 93%)
BTN shows J♥ A♣ (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 26%, Flop 13%, Turn 7%)
Hero wins $4.16

 

[Pascal-lf]

terminology is a bit off

you can't donk bet preflop - donk betting means leading into the original raiser and not checking to them to allow them to cbet.

if he's 3betting you super wide why are you trying to call and hit when AQ should be way ahead of his range - 4bet? especially if they are stacking off light. if he isn't 3betting much then do you really want to call a very strong looking 3bet OOP with someone left to act in the middle, given you've raised utg and shown strength given your table image?

on the flop, sounds like you are just betting to find out where you are which is terrible. it's a good board for him to cbet multiway if he misses, so you can check and get value from the cbet. betting that small seems pointless - you don't charge draws enough and you get bluff raised off your hand a ton.

turn, he is going to try and represent a 5 which doesn't help him...so you bet the pot? does that make sense to you? if he's going to bluff at a card which very rarely improves his range then why are you maxing out your fold equity by betting pot. if he puts you on a draw, then he's not going to bluff raise because he's got no fold equity, so he's just going to fold instead of playing back. not that i think he'd float a really wet pot in a 3way 3bet pot before bluff jamming turn but hey. if he has KK/QQ/JJ the huge bet makes him fold, whereas he might peel again if you bet.

thinking about it, if you check call flop i'm not sold on what to do on the turn...if hes aggressive just check calling down any card seem good

 

[taaron]

terminology is a bit off

you can't donk bet preflop - donk betting means leading into the original raiser and not checking to them to allow them to cbet.

if he's 3betting you super wide why are you trying to call and hit when AQ should be way ahead of his range - 4bet? especially if they are stacking off light. if he isn't 3betting much then do you really want to call a very strong looking 3bet OOP with someone left to act in the middle, given you've raised utg and shown strength given your table image?

on the flop, sounds like you are just betting to find out where you are which is terrible. it's a good board for him to cbet multiway if he misses, so you can check and get value from the cbet. betting that small seems pointless - you don't charge draws enough and you get bluff raised off your hand a ton.

turn, he is going to try and represent a 5 which doesn't help him...so you bet the pot? does that make sense to you? if he's going to bluff at a card which very rarely improves his range then why are you maxing out your fold equity by betting pot. if he puts you on a draw, then he's not going to bluff raise because he's got no fold equity, so he's just going to fold instead of playing back. not that i think he'd float a really wet pot in a 3way 3bet pot before bluff jamming turn but hey. if he has KK/QQ/JJ the huge bet makes him fold, whereas he might peel again if you bet.

thinking about it, if you check call flop i'm not sold on what to do on the turn...if hes aggressive just check calling down any card seem good

ya i meant thin bet (min. raise. . lol). . .i agree w/ u, 100% on the analysis that was why i had posted above it about not thinking that it was really played well (+ev);

ya i also mentioned about having this "trapping mindset" which i've had at least a couple ppl tell me to eliminate at this level, unless its like flopped quads !

also think it may have been meant for higher stake (like 25nl+), but i remeber reading something a long while back, about min raising utg to test the the strength of other hands. .but i'm sure ii am missing something here. . .and is really a concern for much later down the road

now that i think about it, oop w/ such a prem. hand i really shouldn't be making such a thin raise. . ."face meet palm" lol pre=flop. . .

i think that me potting the turn there was like you said also, not a very smart play, here i am thinking best would be to 2/3rds raise; or. . .???

anyway once again i have a lot to work on here,

i'll post some other hands, in a little. .thanks again for the feedback!

 

[taaron]

Here is a link to a hand replay. . . . .w/ JJ in UTG; once again i think i really
played this bad, post flop, but then maybe i played it well. . .advice please?

or if preferred i'l post it long style???

https://www.mintedpoker.eu/en.gameh...f8a1a5a83ec3da407ef8e4770b7&nick=taaron1&note=

 

[Logan2]

To see the replayer need to modify options of Firefox because block the popup window, can unblock but a lot better if post the normal hand with converter, and please not modify the letters size level, small is fine.

And how you doing Taaron, some time with out result updates.

 

[taaron]

graph is not looking good at all. . .lol. . .i am really playing so bad rite now

 

[imwatcher]

Go back and read the advice in this thread... I guarantee if you take it in properly you will play better..

 

[taaron]

Go back and read the advice in this thread... I guarantee if you take it in properly you will play better..

agree 100%; the key word here is "properly"; here is the graph for 2nl FR:
KEY NOTE: red line is not rake but actually $WW/OSD so it has to get added. . .i'm using the "beta" version




and here is my overall cash game w/ 6max and FR;




not gonna say that i'm the worst ever. . . but i def. feel like it

 

[micromachine]

Wow your graph is the opposite to mine...my money won without showdown is a downward sloping line and all my winnings come from showdowns, we must have quite different playing styles!
It doesn't look like you have lost much though, only about $6 down.

 

[taaron]

Wow your graph is the opposite to mine...my money won without showdown is a downward sloping line and all my winnings come from showdowns, we must have quite different playing styles!
It doesn't look like you have lost much though, only about $6 down.

ya i'm really not down too bad (+ it was all $ w/out ever having made a deposit).. .BR is $23/change. . . after yesterdays meltdown

but its really not even so much about the

money as much as it is just wanting to be a better player. . .

i think i do have a semi unique style (not neccesarily good or bad)-
but rite now i am probably over thinking my plays/ and decisions when at the
table for the bottom level;
that and i am really stinking it up at 6max,
plan is maybe to take a break and just read and study and chill for a couple
days, and re-read the thread and etc. . .

 

[micromachine]

I would defo recommend just sticking to FR or 6-max instead of playing both.

Did you play much cash game before starting this thread? You haven't really played that many hands so far so maybe you need a lot more practice. At stars I have played 30K hands of 5NL and 30K hands of 2NL so far and I feel like I am only just starting to be able to beat 2NL!

Lots of study and review + lots of practice + not tilting is the key I think.

 

[Logan2]

Not understand those graphs, where is the actual winning line?.

I ask because in HEM it also have those "with showdown" and "without showdown" but also have the real line which is how you are actually doing. From this graph i could say like micromachine that you are losing only $5 in FR and close to $20 in total FR/6max mix, but that is only with showdown, so is not really your total results.

Here is my graph, i´m talking about the green line that just appear like flat in your graph. if i take the blue line like my winnings then im doing pretty good +$12 but that is not the real one.

Spoiler

So, not really sure how that works in PT3?.



About the graph, same like micro my winnings come from showdown also, not sure why yours is that way and bigger the non showdown, i guess you make people fold a lot and we fold a lot, not sure.

In your graphs look better in FR than 6max, why you change?.

 

[taaron]

I would defo recommend just sticking to FR or 6-max instead of playing both.

Did you play much cash game before starting this thread? You haven't really played that many hands so far so maybe you need a lot more practice. At stars I have played 30K hands of 5NL and 30K hands of 2NL so far and I feel like I am only just starting to be able to beat 2NL!

Lots of study and review + lots of practice + not tilting is the key I think.

ya def. agree w/ u i should prob just stick to FR for now. . .it fits more w/ my tighter style, maybe its just me but any1 else think that 6m on bottom level is just ridiculously loose, i find it to be impossibly imcompatible w/ my style. . .OR. . maybe its just my ability?

i've played Alot of live cash at my local B&R, which is softer imho than online, and reads are easier, but getting out nowadays is harder becuz i now have 2 very young-youngins

a big prob. is the site traffic which is why i have so few hands; but becuz
i'm US i don't really have much option. . . .also b4 the US shutdown i mostly
just played SnGs at FT/ PS but had a dif. handle. SO i am relatively new to
online cash rings.

thanks for the feedback all. . .it really helps; i jst have to be able to put it all together and apply properly. . . .but i know i can. . .i know i will! even if it takes longer than i'd like. . .lol

 

[micromachine]

So, not really sure how that works in PT3?.

The lines on my PT3 graphs are the same as yours on HEM Logan...Green line is overall winnings, Red line in winnings without showdown and Blue line is winnings with showdown.

 

[Logan2]

So taaron just take the green line out?, at least i can´t see it.

 

[taaron]

Not understand those graphs, where is the actual winning line?.

I ask because in HEM it also have those "with showdown" and "without showdown" but also have the real line which is how you are actually doing. From this graph i could say like micromachine that you are losing only $5 in FR and close to $20 in total FR/6max mix, but that is only with showdown, so is not really your total results.

my $0 line in my graph is the flat green.. . .i'm using the PT3 "beta" version. . .and its the trial version. . .so i am not sure how to make the SD/NSD combine into 1 line . . ..and this is just cash game not my tourney (sng) graph.

So, not really sure how that works in PT3?.

me neither. . .lol

About the graph, same like micro my winnings come from showdown also, not sure why yours is that way and bigger the non showdown, i guess you make people fold a lot and we fold a lot, not sure.

Ya this has been since i really studied and listened to pascal and a few others about 3betting. . . .

In your graphs look better in FR than 6max, why you change?.

site traffic issues. . .got sick of having to wait for FRs to fill up . . . .well. . .
that and 6max are what a the cool kids are doing. . . .

 

[Logan2]

Ah, thanks taaron that explains it.

I was playing 9man/18 man before, so FR is easy for me to make the change. But yea, it sucks for you Usa guys right now, not much options left where to play.

 

[taaron]

Ah, thanks taaron that explains it.

I was playing 9man/18 man before, so FR is easy for me to make the change. But yea, it sucks for you Usa guys right now, not much options left where to play.

ya me too; i played 9 to 45s my highest level was $5 BIs and was doing well w/ that level until the DOJ stepped in. . . .then went to clubWPT, which was essentiallly a never ending donkement, (all freerols) really not my thing. . . .

i have an account on Lock/Carbon; but have been mentaly unwilling to make a deposit; and the freeroll donkements there were just not worth it to me. .

.i haven't tried betonline or intertops but, at current site was able to build a good br very easy. . .and will prob. need to go grind some to get my BR back in better shape. . ..sigh. . .

 

[taaron]

Haven't been playing the past couple days; felt like it would be of benefit to just take a short break; and do plenty of re-reading. As a result i have come to several conclusions,

please feel free to point out wrong thinking or any other misconceptions;

1.) The advice given about playing basic 'weak-tight' -ABC at the 2nl level is critical to adhere to!- This means fancy plays or weak semi-bluffs are not welcome.
Stricter hand ranges and more Nitty play on FR's, coupled w/ strong 3bets when appropriate, and folding TPGK, when pushed back at by a LAP; or less than top set in some instances, /or less then 2 pair in a multi-way, in many situations.

2.) Variance is a fact of life and I just need to get over it! I'm gonna be in a heads up pot w/ a lobotomized fish and they hit a 2-4 outer on the river; MAKE the notes, and move on. . .and continue playing ABC.

3.) If i am ever going to beat 2nl, i personally need to play either 6m or FR but not a combination of the 2 on any given session.

4.) I need to ask for and recieve as much help and advice as possible;as well as take better notes, and ask for explanation if i think i am not understanding some piece of advice correctly. . .so here i go again. . .

BR=24.81

 

[TylerN]

i dont think "weak-tight" is what u want. more tight-aggressive which is what u basically described at ur explanation of #1

weak tight is like 19/8, 15/4 which isnt good

i advise making a video, or better yet, joining our skype group