Struggling at the micros - Online 1/2c 6 max

Meister7775 · Jun 7, 2020

Hi mates,

a big thanks to everybody helping to improve my play.
Hands: 23000
Bankroll: 40 buy-ins / USD 80
Win rate: 12.8bb/100

@TheGenera1. Hope all is well and doing fine with your studies. Your Poker coaching turned around my play from a loosing to winning at 2 NL .

@Nathan: It's a great to have you here; have read your article and cannot agree more.

My personal challenge was to make the theory real at the table where TheGenera1 with hand review and comments was the tipping point getting the entire thought process into my head.

1. NO BLUFFING, bet when you have a hand
2. Table selection -> I want min 1x Player VPIP >40%

3. Big Hands = Big Pots -> Bet the crap out of fish and bad regs
4. Small Hands=Small Pots (sometimes induce bluffs you can call with top pair)
5. Fold Top Pairs (sometimes AA, KK) if getting re-raised from very tight players (VPIP <=20%). Fold on scary boards when getting re-raised by tight players / saves just so much money! On the opposite call fish and/or let them bluff (VPIP >40%) who often have top pair and weak kicker, this makes money.

6. No more monkey tilt: I stop playing if I loose more than 2 buy-ins due to coolers, bad beats or simply wrong play on my end
7. Forget all fancy GTO play; I just pressed the delete button

Essentially, I experienced significant down swings in my win rate when applying Johnathan Little theory/books using solver - I could not explain that before but bluffs are simply win rate killers at the micros. The play at the micros is so unbalanced and players calling literally with any two cards.

Now, with the bigger bankroll I am trying NL 5. Anything I need to consider or have to watch out for? If I loose more than 4 buy-ins (USD 20), I will move back to NL 2, will start with 2 tables at the beginning in order to mitigate risk.

Will post a video from NL5 play next week. Fingers crossed the upswing continues.

Cheers!

TheGenera1 · Jun 8, 2020

Great, really great to see. I'm so pleased that my advice has helped you become a winning player at 2nl. It makes the time spent worth it.

You really have the fundamentals locked down, the real challenge at 5nl will be to makes sure you STICK TO IT. Just remember, that the games play almost the same as 2nl and that the regs are NOT playing back at you. They don't know who you are, they don't care who you are and they are definitely not trying to take advantage of you when you move up. It's common to think they are, and make calling mistakes.

Good luck in your new games at 5nl, make sure you move down if you lose 4 buy ins. Good that you have set yourself this limit.

Game select. I would suggest that at 5nl regular tables (not zoom) that you can easily find 3+ whales at your table. You should not look to play a table with just one VPIP 40 fish but in fact, there are MANY tables even at 10nl that have 3-4 of these players. Look for them. And leave tables that don't.

Minimum you want each table to have 2+ VPIP 50 players.

Meister7775 · Jun 14, 2020

Back from this week´s play.

Win rate@5NL: 2bb/100
Win rate total NL2/NL5: 12bb/100
28000hands
Total won USD 70,- (Cash games)
Total bank roll: USD 130,- (incl. Bonus & Free Tourneys/Sit&Go). Had good runs here.

Overall experience at 5NL
- Feels a bit NIT and Reg infested. Way tougher. People are more CBetting (60-70%, sometime 90%) so need to call more marginal stuff. This increases risk to loose big pots
-50% less tables (i.e. 2NL 300 tables, 5NL 150 tables around evening time)
- Not a lot fish playing VPIP 40% + / only 1-2 fish players at one table applying rigid table process. For instance I close 5-10 tables before I find the right one.
- Need to be very careful with tight ranges of all the regs/NITs. Here I called too much and bluffed resulting in massive losses, thus the low win rate of 2BB/100
- In addition more 3Betting pre flop by NITs/Regs which I called and lost. What ranges to call and fold with dynamic ranges of opponents, gets me out of the comfort zone. And gets worse if they keep CBetting after the flops when I have hit really nothing on the board. Should I keep calling with AJ+ or just fold out? At NL 2 I just fold out because I know nobody is bluffing most of the time. At NL5 not so sure?

Strategy:
- I started more three betting (AJ+, 99+, KQ+). Fish calling most of it and big pots to win
- Overall Reg/NITS folding most of the time to 3Bets
- Bluffing: Against the regs and NITs sometimes makes sense on a scary board. BUT never against fish
- Another observation; There are regs who fold to CBet 60-70% and I could win a lot by just auto CBetting.
Really need to learn how to adjust play against the various types of opponents. Question how to win at tables where players have all different ranges of VPIP 20/PFR 18, VPIP 30/15 and VPIP 40/20. Overall it is more the tight ranges who stack you if you don't watch out. e.g. My AJ making top pair vs opponend who called with QQ and just kept calling every bet until the river > Checking his stat I found that this was a 20/18 who surprisingly called AJ and did not 3Bett his QQ. Some of these guys are tricky in addition to their tight ranges. Should I stop betting after the flop with top pair top kicker if called by this player type?

Sometimes, I went down to NL 2 plays to refresh and charge battery from NL 5. Interesting enough I won the USD 5 at NL 2 with just 1000hands compared to USD 5 at NL 5 with 5000 hands (-;

Meister7775 · Jun 14, 2020

After the post I had one of the worst runs ever. Burnt through 5 buyins with just 500 hands!!!

Here are the hands which cost USD 25,- This was coming up in a row. Virtually no other wins which compensated.

I am on monkey tilt having this experience in just 500 hands - this comes in waves i.e. upswings and downswings. There is no mathematical and or logical explanation for it...

Should I have played different, any mistakes? Opponents I played against the typical 5 NL regs.

No 1
Hero (UTG): $5.30 (106 bb)
MP: $5.22 (104.4 bb)
CO: $3.82 (76.4 bb)
BTN: $5.00 (100 bb)
SB: $4.76 (95.2 bb)
BB: $5.06 (101.2 bb)

SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Ks Kh
Hero raises to $0.15, fold, CO calls $0.15, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.37, 2 players) 6c 5d 7d
Hero bets $0.26, CO raises to $1.15, Hero raises to $5.15 and is all-in, CO calls $2.52 and is all-in
Turn: ($7.71, 2 players) 8s
River: ($7.71, 2 players) Tc
Results: $7.71 pot ($0.32 rake)
Final Board: 6c 5d 7d 8s Tc
Hero shows Ks Kh: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 83%, Flop 52%, Turn 27%)
CO shows 6d 8h: (Two Pair, Eights and Sixes)
(Pre 17%, Flop 48%, Turn 73%)
CO wins $7.39

No 2
BB: $5.33 (106.6 bb)
Hero (UTG): $6.05 (121 bb)
MP: $6.96 (139.2 bb)
CO: $5.92 (118.4 bb)
BTN: $4.33 (86.6 bb)
SB: $11.60 (232 bb)
SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Js Jh
Hero raises to $0.15, 3 folds, SB raises to $0.55, BB calls $0.50, Hero raises to $6.05 and is all-in, SB raises to $11.60 and is all-in, fold

Flop: ($12.65, 2 players) Jd Ac 3d
Turn: ($12.65, 2 players) 5d
River: ($12.65, 2 players) Qh
Results: $12.65 pot ($0.52 rake)
Final Board: Jd Ac 3d 5d Qh
SB shows As Ah: (Three of a Kind, Aces)
(Pre 82%, Flop 96%, Turn 98%)
Hero shows Js Jh: (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 18%, Flop 4%, Turn 2%)
SB wins $12.13

No 3
BTN: $4.93 (98.6 bb)
Hero (SB): $6.72 (134.4 bb)
BB: $4.14 (82.8 bb)
UTG: $5.81 (116.2 bb)
MP: $5.00 (100 bb)
CO: $6.38 (127.6 bb)
Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Kh Js
UTG raises to $0.10, fold, CO calls $0.10, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, UTG calls $0.20, CO calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95, 3 players) Jd 2c 3c
Hero bets $0.68, UTG calls $0.68, fold

Turn: ($2.31, 2 players) 7c
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.10, Hero calls $1.10

River: ($4.51, 2 players) Kd
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.73 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.73

Results: $11.97 pot ($0.50 rake)
Final Board: Jd 2c 3c 7c Kd
UTG shows Tc Qc: (Flush, Queen High)
(Pre 41%, Flop 47%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Kh Js: (Two Pair, Kings and Jacks)
(Pre 59%, Flop 53%, Turn 0%)
UTG wins $11.47

No 4
BTN: $7.96 (159.2 bb)
SB: $3.71 (74.2 bb)
BB: $7.14 (142.8 bb)
Hero (UTG): $5.22 (104.4 bb)
CO: $5.00 (100 bb)
SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Jc Qh
Hero raises to $0.15, CO raises to $0.60, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.27, 2 players) 7d Jh 6c
Hero checks, CO bets $0.88, Hero calls $0.88

Turn: ($3.03, 2 players) 6s
Hero checks, CO bets $3.52 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.52

River: ($10.07, 2 players) 6h
Results: $10.07 pot ($0.42 rake)
Final Board: 7d Jh 6c 6s 6h
Hero shows Jc Qh: (Full House, Sixes full of Jacks)
(Pre 15%, Flop 18%, Turn 5%)
CO shows Ac Ad: (Full House, Sixes full of Aces)
(Pre 85%, Flop 82%, Turn 95%)
CO wins $9.65

BTN: $8.30 (166 bb)
Hero (SB): $5.50 (110 bb)
BB: $5.00 (100 bb)
CO: $5.00 (100 bb)
Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Jh Kd
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, BB raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.90, 2 players) Jc Ac 9s
Hero checks, BB bets $0.38, Hero calls $0.38

Turn: ($1.66, 2 players) 8h
Hero checks, BB bets $1.10, Hero calls $1.10

River: ($3.86, 2 players) 8d
Hero bets $3.57 and is all-in, BB calls $3.07 and is all-in
Results: $10.00 pot ($0.42 rake)
Final Board: Jc Ac 9s 8h 8d
Hero shows Jh Kd: (Two Pair, Jacks and Eights)
(Pre 61%, Flop 61%, Turn 68%)
BB shows 8c 5c: (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 39%, Flop 39%, Turn 32%)
BB wins $9.58

No 5

BTN: $3.57 (71.4 bb)
SB: $1.95 (39 bb)
BB: $5.89 (117.8 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.00 (100 bb)
SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has As Js
Hero raises to $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.60, 4 players) 6s 8s 6d
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.29, 2 folds, BB calls $0.29

Turn: ($1.18, 2 players) 4s
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($1.18, 2 players) 7h
BB bets $0.85, Hero raises to $2.00, BB raises to $5.45 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.56 and is all-in
Results: $10.30 pot ($0.43 rake)
Final Board: 6s 8s 6d 4s 7h
BB shows 8h 8d: (Full House, Eights full of Sixes)
(Pre 53%, Flop 99%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows As Js: (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 48%, Flop 1%, Turn 0%)
BB wins $9.87

Meister7775 · Jun 21, 2020

Win rate: 6.09 bb/100
38000hands
Total won USD 17,- (Cash games)
Total bank roll: USD 80,- (incl. Bonus & Free Tourneys/Sit&Go).

Massive down swing with a series of bad beats, horrible suck outs, resulting in monkey tilt that can make you quit poker. Sometimes think the platform is rigged if nut flush gets beaten by full house on the river or full-house over full-house (last minute river two pair board/happend twice), or opponent is calling (pot size bets) vs. AA hero, flop A-K-9 (5% equity call and makes a straight on the river with 8-6o) etc...etc... All this happened in the last 10000 hands...lol. The only hope I have playing against opponents that stupid, I will catch a massive up swing at some point in the forseeable future if variance allows...
[FONT=NotoSans, Lato, arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]Had to move down to NL2, yet recovered a bit and back to NL 5. Hope to catch an up swing...keep you posted

Kaleiduo · Jun 21, 2020

Could you put the hands or just a single hand into the replayer? Posting all those hands makes it difficult to read and identify specifically what you need help with.

https://www.cardschat.com/hand-converter.php

I mean, suck outs happen at a lot of stakes, but it doesn't help mentally to focus on them, and it could possibly mean you are getting it in against nit players who never bluff instead of the fish who call with anything. Have you read Nathan Williams' books or watched his YouTube videos? It provides the blueprint you need to win and keep things as simple as possible without getting yourself into really tricky spots.

Meister7775 · Jun 22, 2020

Meister7775 · Jun 22, 2020

here ist the rest:

10. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CUGaRD
11. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/224CUE9z6
12. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CUXY47

Caution: An experience like this can send you to monkey tilt wanting to quit poker.

BTW: On the day after lost another USD 26,- (will post later).

I am currently recovering from these losses...but you know takes weeks....

Big fan of Nathan Williams book, articles and videos

ringworm · Jun 22, 2020

Checkout "Harrington on Online Cash Games; 6-Max No-Limit Hold’em"
https://www.twoplustwo.com/books/poker/harrington-online-cash-games-no-limit-hold-em/

The book is 10 years old, but pretty much everything in there is still relevant and correct for current online play. What has helped me the most was using my HUD to put my opponents on hand ranges. I've learned to put my opponents on specific hand ranges based on their VPIP and instantly narrow down the possible hands they could be calling/raising/3-betting with.

The book is a quick read and has made me a much better player at the micro limits I'm currently playing at.

ringworm · Jun 22, 2020

My main observation here is that you were in early position in every case, either SB or UTG. Regardless of your hands, you can expect to make less and lose more when you're out of position. Players in late position will be more likely to call/raise/3-bet/semi-bluff with a much wider range of hands.

As a general rule, I don't like putting money in the pot when I'm in early position. I tend to play big pairs much more cautiously and almost never play drawing hands from early position. I will often even limp with AA and KK in early position and play the flop as if I hit top pair with a strong kicker.

Scenario 1 : I limp UTG with AA (1BB) with two other callers. Check-raise the flop (6-9BB). If I get anyone playing back at me and shoving their stack in after I check-raise, I know I'm beat and I'm dumping my hand.

Scenario 2 : I limp UTG with AA (1BB), CO limps and BTN raises (3BB). I re-raise (10BB), CO folds and BTN calls (+7BB). The pot is now around 25BB. At this point, I'm heads-up and trying to get the button's full stack in the middle regardless of what he has. If he missed the flop, I'm going to try to get him to bluff. If he hit top pair, I'm trying to make him think his hand is good. If the flop hit him hard and he has me beat, I'm going to lose my stack, but this is the least likely scenario so I'm willing to balance this against the other times I'm going to have him beat.

In a nutshell, if I'm heads-up with a big overpair, I'm looking to get my opponent's full stack in the pot. If there are multiple people in the pot, I want to keep the pot as small as possible because Top Pair/Overpair is not going to be the best hand in a multiway flop where my opponent/s are jamming the pot.

Meister7775 said:
After the post I had one of the worst runs ever. Burnt through 5 buyins with just 500 hands!!!

Here are the hands which cost USD 25,- This was coming up in a row. Virtually no other wins which compensated.

I am on monkey tilt having this experience in just 500 hands - this comes in waves i.e. upswings and downswings. There is no mathematical and or logical explanation for it...

Should I have played different, any mistakes? Opponents I played against the typical 5 NL regs.

No 1
Hero (UTG): $5.30 (106 bb)
MP: $5.22 (104.4 bb)
CO: $3.82 (76.4 bb)
BTN: $5.00 (100 bb)
SB: $4.76 (95.2 bb)
BB: $5.06 (101.2 bb)

SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Ks Kh
Hero raises to $0.15, fold, CO calls $0.15, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.37, 2 players) 6c 5d 7d
Hero bets $0.26, CO raises to $1.15, Hero raises to $5.15 and is all-in, CO calls $2.52 and is all-in
Turn: ($7.71, 2 players) 8s
River: ($7.71, 2 players) Tc
Results: $7.71 pot ($0.32 rake)
Final Board: 6c 5d 7d 8s Tc
Hero shows Ks Kh: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 83%, Flop 52%, Turn 27%)
CO shows 6d 8h: (Two Pair, Eights and Sixes)
(Pre 17%, Flop 48%, Turn 73%)
CO wins $7.39

No 2
BB: $5.33 (106.6 bb)
Hero (UTG): $6.05 (121 bb)
MP: $6.96 (139.2 bb)
CO: $5.92 (118.4 bb)
BTN: $4.33 (86.6 bb)
SB: $11.60 (232 bb)
SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Js Jh
Hero raises to $0.15, 3 folds, SB raises to $0.55, BB calls $0.50, Hero raises to $6.05 and is all-in, SB raises to $11.60 and is all-in, fold

Flop: ($12.65, 2 players) Jd Ac 3d
Turn: ($12.65, 2 players) 5d
River: ($12.65, 2 players) Qh
Results: $12.65 pot ($0.52 rake)
Final Board: Jd Ac 3d 5d Qh
SB shows As Ah: (Three of a Kind, Aces)
(Pre 82%, Flop 96%, Turn 98%)
Hero shows Js Jh: (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 18%, Flop 4%, Turn 2%)
SB wins $12.13

No 3
BTN: $4.93 (98.6 bb)
Hero (SB): $6.72 (134.4 bb)
BB: $4.14 (82.8 bb)
UTG: $5.81 (116.2 bb)
MP: $5.00 (100 bb)
CO: $6.38 (127.6 bb)
Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Kh Js
UTG raises to $0.10, fold, CO calls $0.10, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, UTG calls $0.20, CO calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95, 3 players) Jd 2c 3c
Hero bets $0.68, UTG calls $0.68, fold

Turn: ($2.31, 2 players) 7c
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.10, Hero calls $1.10

River: ($4.51, 2 players) Kd
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.73 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.73

Results: $11.97 pot ($0.50 rake)
Final Board: Jd 2c 3c 7c Kd
UTG shows Tc Qc: (Flush, Queen High)
(Pre 41%, Flop 47%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Kh Js: (Two Pair, Kings and Jacks)
(Pre 59%, Flop 53%, Turn 0%)
UTG wins $11.47

No 4
BTN: $7.96 (159.2 bb)
SB: $3.71 (74.2 bb)
BB: $7.14 (142.8 bb)
Hero (UTG): $5.22 (104.4 bb)
CO: $5.00 (100 bb)
SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Jc Qh
Hero raises to $0.15, CO raises to $0.60, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.27, 2 players) 7d Jh 6c
Hero checks, CO bets $0.88, Hero calls $0.88

Turn: ($3.03, 2 players) 6s
Hero checks, CO bets $3.52 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.52

River: ($10.07, 2 players) 6h
Results: $10.07 pot ($0.42 rake)
Final Board: 7d Jh 6c 6s 6h
Hero shows Jc Qh: (Full House, Sixes full of Jacks)
(Pre 15%, Flop 18%, Turn 5%)
CO shows Ac Ad: (Full House, Sixes full of Aces)
(Pre 85%, Flop 82%, Turn 95%)
CO wins $9.65

BTN: $8.30 (166 bb)
Hero (SB): $5.50 (110 bb)
BB: $5.00 (100 bb)
CO: $5.00 (100 bb)
Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Jh Kd
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, BB raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.90, 2 players) Jc Ac 9s
Hero checks, BB bets $0.38, Hero calls $0.38

Turn: ($1.66, 2 players) 8h
Hero checks, BB bets $1.10, Hero calls $1.10

River: ($3.86, 2 players) 8d
Hero bets $3.57 and is all-in, BB calls $3.07 and is all-in
Results: $10.00 pot ($0.42 rake)
Final Board: Jc Ac 9s 8h 8d
Hero shows Jh Kd: (Two Pair, Jacks and Eights)
(Pre 61%, Flop 61%, Turn 68%)
BB shows 8c 5c: (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 39%, Flop 39%, Turn 32%)
BB wins $9.58

No 5

BTN: $3.57 (71.4 bb)
SB: $1.95 (39 bb)
BB: $5.89 (117.8 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.00 (100 bb)
SB posts $0.02, BB posts $0.05
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has As Js
Hero raises to $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.60, 4 players) 6s 8s 6d
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.29, 2 folds, BB calls $0.29

Turn: ($1.18, 2 players) 4s
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($1.18, 2 players) 7h
BB bets $0.85, Hero raises to $2.00, BB raises to $5.45 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.56 and is all-in
Results: $10.30 pot ($0.43 rake)
Final Board: 6s 8s 6d 4s 7h
BB shows 8h 8d: (Full House, Eights full of Sixes)
(Pre 53%, Flop 99%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows As Js: (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 48%, Flop 1%, Turn 0%)
BB wins $9.87

pablo lima · Jun 22, 2020

The best poker

The best poker passwrd site is CardsChat forever.

Meister7775 · Jun 22, 2020

Hi Ringworm,

Thank you, that's very good advise and I did not consider before.

Looking at my positional net won I am actually negative USD 17,- at UTG over the 38000 hands played. I was wondering about the cause of this value leakage. Did not have the answer because I am playing tight from that position...however is not only about playing tight but also smart as per your scenarios. Will give that a try.

BTW: Happened to me with players who got my stack in with their limped AA, KK from UTG. I thought I did hit the flop with an overpair against these limpers

i.e A-J with and J on the flop top pair.

Will check out the Harrington Poker book.

Kaleiduo · Jun 22, 2020

Just a couple things I noticed:

The hand where you have KK on a 657 flop - this was a specific scenario in "Crushing The Microstakes" that you have to be really careful about. This hits villain's range a lot of the time with their 66, 77, 88, A8, A5, K8s, etc. Maybe it's something specific to micro play, but these middle range wet boards are a disaster for our hands. Getting it all in even with KK we better be dead sure villain doesn't have anything here, especially when that 8 pops up. Villain may have had 68o and tilted us for having called with such poor holdings, but we were already beat considering the flop we got! Consider re-reading CTM and make sure we have proper HUD stats and reads on villain before we start trying to bluff the board like this.

I think in general too these hands are being played OOP and for instance you tried to bluff the river with QJo despite hitting nothing, we didn't do a delayed turn c-bet, and we don't really have any information or read on villain. We've got to put our ego aside and sometimes when we miss the flop, we should just fold, ESPECIALLY out of position. That's hard sometimes, and as micro players we're all guilty of holding on to our KK/AA for dear life, but when we're beat, we're beat, and we shouldn't overvalue what we have in the micros where players will call with literally anything and under value bet their monster hands. Play it slow, wait for the right moment, and pounce when you have it. Until then, fold before things get worse and don't assume anyone will fold to your bluff.

Meister7775 · Jun 22, 2020

Yeah I think that´s right. In particular when I experience a down swing with suck out and not connecting with the flop, I start bluffing again which makes it worse. Should just press fold button instead - put a red fold button on the screen beside my laptop saying fold when tilt

...all depends on the opponents - today I had crazy bluffers on the table which I just called down.

@Ringworm: This "sometimes" top pair limping strategy with shoving all-in when getting raised works perfect - in particular with aggro bluffers

TheGenera1 · Jun 23, 2020

Thank you for putting these hands into a hand converter. Makes it easier to see what went wrong. I will take a look later

Meister7775 · Jun 23, 2020

Welcome back General - I follow your thread NL 2 to NL 25 which is very inspiring as a long term goal on my end.

TheGenera1 · Jun 24, 2020

Meister7775 said:
Hi,

here are an example hands from 14.06.20 where I lost USD 46,- over a couple of hours. Will keep adding.

1. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/224CUQWQf

Cooler = no.
Hand = Played incorrectly.
Fold pre flop. No need to 3bet from SB v an EP range when you're out of position (OOP) As played, definitely fold turn. His range is strong and crushes yours. His bluffs make a very small part of his range here, his value hands dominate his range. Fold. For every time you call and he's bluffing, you'll another 10 times where he has value.

2. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/224CURcPM
Cooler = Technically yes but you should have folded.
Hand = Played incorrectly.
You're a massive calling station here I'm afraid. He's not bluffing you often. This was a cooler only when his hand was revealed. Fold pre flop and defo fold turn. Don't need to flat call a 3bet with KJo here. Pick better hands to call 3bets with.

KJ is garbage tbh, you can never go too far wrong just folding it.

3. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/224CUQFOA

Cooler = No
Hand = Played incorrectly.

This hand as ok But I'd like to see a larger 3bet. Make it at least 3 times the original bet + an extra bet for each player in the pot. 0.17*3=51 + 0.15 = 66. Make it 68 cents next time.
You can look to Cbet when you have some equity. (you did, you had back door diamonds and also overpair draws).

The turn call was ok given the odds. Check on river also good Just 3bet larger pre flop. 3x the raise + an additional 3x the BB for each caller.

4. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/424CURnsv

Cooler = No
Hand = played incorrectly.

You're calling way too much. Maybe you're on tilt here but this play was really loose. Fold to the pre flop 3bet. Definitely fold to any large bet. His range CRUSHES yours. You're calling down with just top pair. A very weak one at best. Don't assume "it's probably AK lewl" and just fold

If in doubt, FOLD.

5. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/624CUEr7C

Cooler = Yes
Hand = played incorrectly.

You didn't play this too badly at all, but you should not have raised the river if this guy is a nit. He seems nitty to me. If opponent is a huge fish you can raise river, if he's an uber nit then you can sometimes raise, but if he shoves over the top you're in trouble. Best to just call his bet on paired boards. Nits at 5nl ALWAYS have it. like ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. They never raise river all in unless they have close to the stone cold nuts. It's 90% a full house here against a nit.

Against a fish just shove and be happy

6. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CUY1c8

Cooler = No
Hand = played Correctly.

Well done, this player is clearly a fish. We can see this from his stack size. You played the hand well and it's just a cooler.

However, if he was an uber nit, we can actually fold the flop to a flop shove or fold turn to a shove often as it's usually always a set or straight. Only if he's a nit though. The pot is not 3bet thus it's likely a nit with a full stack would have your hand crushed when they raise all in.

7. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524CVREyp

As played this is ok. Depending on villian. If it's a nit, we can fold turn. If not, calling turn and checking river is ok but I'm not happy about it. I'd be looking to fold a lot here. His flop bet is also a full sized pot. This should worry us.

8. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/624CUCxIS

Fold pre. As played, well done not raising river all in. Just calling here is correct.

9. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524CVSYgc

You played this hand ok. I think I would check turn though. You don't represent much here. And his range contains a lot of aces which have drawing equity with the straight on the board. Given this, the king also hits his range more than it hits ours. We didn't 3bet pre flop so our range doesn't contain as much kings as his. Just check fold here.

Meister7775 said:
here ist the rest:

10. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CUGaRD

This hand is ok as played. However, I would be looking to fold this pre, especially given your propensity to over play hands like QJo and KJo. These hands are NOT good hands. Not even close, they get players in to trouble and you really need to be seeing as cheap a showdown as possible with 1 pair hands when QJ hits a pair. As played, this is what you did, so well done. I would still look to fold pre here. If villain bets 2/3rd pot instead of 1/3rd pot on both streets, what do you do here? Fold is the answer haha.

11. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/224CUE9z6

4bet AKo in the SB or fold. Don't look to flat call a 3bet with it. You don't have position and you'll miss the flop 2/3rds of the time. What then? The power of AK comes firstly with it's fold equity, and when called, it comes from AK's ability to see five cards, not three. By 4betting this, we gain initiative and also if we shove AK all in, we get to see all five cards. We have decent equity against any pair that isn't KK or AA. Even with KK we have 30% equity and we make up for this when they fold to our shove.

4bet (all in) or fold when facing a 3bet in the SB with AK. I suggest just shoving all in for 100bb or less with AK facing a 3bet against MOST regs. (Not all though, some nits we can actually fold AK pre)

12. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CUXY47

Same exact problem with hand 11. You have AK and you just flat the 3bet. You miss flop and have to fold. You will burn money playing AK this way. 4bet or fold. Don't flat OOP.
In fact, you shouldn't really ever flat with AKo in position either.
Caution: An experience like this can send you to monkey tilt wanting to quit poker.

BTW: On the day after lost another USD 26,- (will post later).

I am currently recovering from these losses...but you know takes weeks....

Big fan of Nathan Williams book, articles and videos

Meister7775 said:
Welcome back General - I follow your thread NL 2 to NL 25 which is very inspiring as a long term goal on my end.

Now the depressing part: Here are the Top 15 loosing hands from the session June 15th where I lost another USD 26,-.....in total USD 72,- (June 14th, USD 46, -> see hands posted yesterday + June 15th, USD 26,-> see below). Ultimatly these two days anniliated my roll and had to step down to NL 2. Is this all variance?!

13. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CWfMYG

This is just a cooler. Nothing we can do about it really. However, since your stack size is actually around 125bb you could actually flat the 4bet for some pot control. Also, and you won't believe this, but I have actually folded KK a few times when facing an all in shove from an uber nit. If he's playing 12/2/1 or something less, you can put him on TWO hands.

These two hands are KK or AA. And since we block KK, then it's likely he has AA. Having said this, you can't go wrong by simply shipping KK all in. I just know that 5nl is very heavily infested with uber nits. At the tables I'm playing currently, I haven't once folded KK ever. When I played 5nl zoom I did often fold KK against uber nits. But this takes a huge lot of experience to know when to do.

14. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CWcqXv

This hand really depends on villain. If they're a nit, you can fold. If they're a fish you can shove. You really have to make sure you know which is which though. Is villain ever really raising your bet with less than TOP TWO pair here? Really? you have to ask yourself this

15. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CWepEg

Don't shove JJ all in at 5nl against regs. They 4bet range has you crushed. Flat call and hope to see a cheap showdown.

16. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CWahVl

Not sure why you bet the river here. I think you were scared of his shove and wanted to just get it over with. Honestly, you need to be looking to get to showdown as cheaply as possible in this spot. Your top pair is weak and there are dangerous cards on the board.
Fold river if he bets a reasonable amount. Definitely don't bet river OOP here.

17. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324CYF6yS

This is just a cooler. Well played, nothing you can do here.

18. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324CYKPAS

Why do you shove here? Really bad play mate. You're almost never good here. You lose to so many hands that have you crushed. Just make the disciplined lay down and fold.

19. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524CYUfSD

Loose call pre flop, loose call post-flop. You are UTG at 6max here and you faced a 3bet from a player who is out of position, and is facing a raise from your UTG open. His range >> yours. Fold pre.

20. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/624CWgrbz

This hand is ok Nice 3bet size. Good flop check. I'd like to see a bet on the turn here though. Protects your hand and gets value from worse hands such as AJs ATs etc. If villain has a king, he bets flop to protect against the draws. So you can rule out a king most of the time here.

21. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/624CYGHEv

If you're going to call this much of a bet on the flop, you might as well just shove all in Try and get folds to make up for the time that you miss. Having said this, I would actually look to fold this on the flop given the action in front of us. We're facing 2pair + more often here than we're good.

In this hand, the fish got lucky but I don't think we can focus on just the A7 that he holds. Both villains just limp called your PFR which means they have a lot of garbage but also a lot of medium pairs. I think shoving or folding is ok, given the stack sizes here. But just flat calling is not the best decision. Shove flop facing this action, or fold. Either is fine.

22. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/324CYJoLz

QJ is not a good hand. Try not to overvalue it. Definitely don't call river here. I knew he had the ace before the hand even finished it's just so clear that he has a straight. Try not to call out of frustration. It's a sure fire way to burn through a stack.

Remember, when you're on tilt, every bad call you make means you've not only got to make up for your previous losses, but the current loss too. All money lost must be made back before we can even break even. Money saved IS money earnt.

23. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/424CYLu3Z

As played this hand is fine. Well done not betting the river.

24. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/124CW9Hyc

I think you played this hand well. There are not too many draws on the flop and it's likely you are beat here. Calling flop raise is fine, well done folding turn. This is the best play I've seen you make out of all these hands You saved money here 90% of the time.

25. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/624CYUwSC

Not sure why you 3bet this hand. Not sure what happened in any of this hand. Tilt? No need to bluff river. Just fold pre.

26. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/624CYUHV5

Check call river. Ten completes a straight and the flush draw misses. You want to give villain a chance to bluff at his missed flush draw, while also pot controlling against the times he hits his straight. In this hand he had JJ so the straight completing actually saved you money. But against his range, check/calling a reasonable river bet is the most +EV line.

27. https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/424CYRAAf

UTG this is a pretty loose open. I would fold this pre. Suited connectors are much better when played in position. No one is paying attention to your opening range at 2nl so dont worry about balancing it.

As played, you were a bit of a calling station. You don't really have the odds to call here, especially when two of your outs are clubs which will kill your action. 7clubs and Q of clubs are bad turns for you and you'll have to slow down. As such, you don't even have as many outs as you really think you do. You have 6 outs instead of 8 that are of any real use.

Interim good news: Since June 15th I had only winning sessions with two exceptions, slowly crawling up and playing NL 5 again....

Thanks mate! I hope I can help you here! I think you are playing way too loose, that is my general observation. Tighten up, ALOT

Well done stepping back down to 2nl, it's something every great player has to do at some time. Stepping down stakes takes pride. Well done for doing it. Keep working hard, take onboard all the tips and help you've received and you'll make it.

I think you've loosened up your play way too much. You're trying to play a very LAG style but your post flop skills are not quite there yet to support it. Try tightening up. Play a 15/14/3 instead of what I presume right now is around 21/18/4.

Don't overvalue garbage hands especially when they hit one pair or two pair. And don't call bets you shouldn't out of frustration.

Best of luck.

P.S. Almost none of this is variance, I'm afraid it's 95% bad play.

deeznutzz · Jun 24, 2020

I think the main reason why you are struggling to have success in micro stakes is because you are trying to play a style of poker then what is actually being played at that level. The issue with GTO is that it assumes your opponents are playing GTO style of poker as well. While this is true at the higher levels of the game. You'll find that in the micro to mid level games there is almost no one that trying to play GTO. Instead the vast majority of them play in an extremely straight forward and exploitable style of play. They bet when they have a hand and fold when they don't. You're trying to play in a way that you can not be exploited but you're trying to balance your range against opponents whom the vast majority of them don't understand or use hand charts. GTO is poker played at its absolute highest level. All the best players in the world are playing some form of GTO. While the micro stake games are being played at the most basic level possible. Most are simply playing there cards. Most players have huge leaks in there game and they will most often make the same mistakes over and over again. At that level you can be successful. he key is to identify what mistakes your opponent makes and then you figure out a way to exploit those mistakes. You'll find that quite often you will need to get far out of line in order to capitalize on a players mistakes. You'll also notice that by exploiting your opponents you will make yourself exploitable but at that level you dont need to worry about that. At this level you learn to play the player. Which is a very important skill to have even when playing at the much high levels. Just from reading your post it sounds like you have everything needed to be successful and not just at the micro level but also be successful at the much higher levels as well. I wish you the best of luck and hopefully you'll keep us updated on here as you continue to progress

Meister7775 · Jun 29, 2020

Hi there,

thank you very much for the hand review which I accomodate in my game (-:

Back from this week’s play. In a nutshell did good at NL2 and went back to NL 5 again. Managed to win 2 buy-ins at NL5 with knowledge acquired from Harrington and internet study. The tipping point was a pre-flop AA vs. 55 all in where opponent hit set. I entered a stagnant phase in the game – nothing really happened over 500hands or more - finally the spiral downwards…loosing 6-buyins.

Currently, back at square zero playing NL2 and recovering bankroll.

Total roll: USD 64,-
Win rate: 5bb/100 (combined)
Total won: USD 2,-
44000 hands

I think my play at NL5 is flawed but don’t know the exact problem. Winning at NL2 but literally crushed at NL5??!! (see below).

NL2 (34000 hands) / Net won: USD +82-
NL 2 feels easy just look for the right table, wait for the players who get it all-in with their top pairs, medium pairs or even complete garbage hands…40/10 calling stations, aggro fish 40/20 AF>3 or 50% pre-flop shovers. A lot of drawing possible because weak players are not betting and most of the time you get the right odds…big hands big pots, small hands small pots.

NL5 (10000 hands) / Net losses: -80 USD
Observations at NL5:
1. Not seen easy fish targets from NL2
2. A lot more 3Betting – some 10% 3Bet ranges.
3. Not hitting the flop and if I hit somebody else does hit a bit better…(so perceived big hands get crushed). So need to get more sophisticated in order to find out if somebody has hit or not…comments how to achieve welcome (-:
4. Pre-flop: Don’t get action with my big hands (i.e. all in raise with the NUTs seldom)
5. Post-flop: Less action with big hands. Players folding quite quickly if I have something
6. Drawing: Difficult because people bet 75% pot or bigger with their over pairs, top pairs and keep barrelling on multiple streets, high aggression. I lost a lot of money when calling my draws which never arrived. So folding on turn with most of my draws – to cap losses...but still losses that can send you on tilt.
7. Many NITs and/or TAGs 8/10 to 22/20, 26/20 where I cannot make money, simply because they are not playing and if they play, I know it is a premium range and play super cautious. I leave all these NIT/Reg infested tables very quickly, jumping around a lot
8. Tricky players 40/0, 40/20 – up to 100% limping rage who are cash positive lol. In NL2 they are fish, here quite dangerous because they oftentimes hit the flop better with their flushes, straights, two pairs etc. You cannot put them on a range at all – actually oftentimes unsure if they are bluffing. I am making often the wrong calls with these players. Folding big hands when I shouldn’t and calling with worse. Not sure how much these players are bluffing vs. showing the goods. Sprial downwards often starts here losing a number of mid-size pots.

The success formula, I have for NL2 seems not working at NL5…

Do you share the experience that NL5 is much tougher than NL2?

Is all NL2 play and strategy more or less obsolete at NL5?

Are there similar success factors, suggestions, easy adaptions for NL5 play which I used for NL2?

What is your experience with win-rates. Is NL5 comparable with NL2 if I manage the strategy?

andreypuch · Jun 29, 2020

Hm. Thanks. Found where I can watch the hand draw on CC. I'll sort it out. I wonder if I can play several hands at once, instead of one at a time?

TheDude6622 · Jun 29, 2020

ringworm said:
My main observation here is that you were in early position in every case, either SB or UTG. Regardless of your hands, you can expect to make less and lose more when you're out of position. Players in late position will be more likely to call/raise/3-bet/semi-bluff with a much wider range of hands.

As a general rule, I don't like putting money in the pot when I'm in early position. I tend to play big pairs much more cautiously and almost never play drawing hands from early position. I will often even limp with AA and KK in early position and play the flop as if I hit top pair with a strong kicker.

Scenario 1 : I limp UTG with AA (1BB) with two other callers. Check-raise the flop (6-9BB). If I get anyone playing back at me and shoving their stack in after I check-raise, I know I'm beat and I'm dumping my hand.

Scenario 2 : I limp UTG with AA (1BB), CO limps and BTN raises (3BB). I re-raise (10BB), CO folds and BTN calls (+7BB). The pot is now around 25BB. At this point, I'm heads-up and trying to get the button's full stack in the middle regardless of what he has. If he missed the flop, I'm going to try to get him to bluff. If he hit top pair, I'm trying to make him think his hand is good. If the flop hit him hard and he has me beat, I'm going to lose my stack, but this is the least likely scenario so I'm willing to balance this against the other times I'm going to have him beat.

In a nutshell, if I'm heads-up with a big overpair, I'm looking to get my opponent's full stack in the pot. If there are multiple people in the pot, I want to keep the pot as small as possible because Top Pair/Overpair is not going to be the best hand in a multiway flop where my opponent/s are jamming the pot.

I agree with you. I try not to put money in the pot in early position. When I have a holding of 5's or lower, I tend to let them go if I am UTG or UTG+1. Yes you will hit a set on the flop from time to time, but mostly, you are torching money.

The other portion of my game that's improved that can help is play in the blinds. This is the hardest portion to play in my opinion. Calling does let you see flops cheaper, but in the long run, you're not forcing out other players. I would say 80% of the time we should be raising or folding in the SB spot.

Lastly, I would try to incorporate a few micro MTT's and SnG's in my schedule. This breaks up the just playing 1 style and gives you different perspective on play.

TheGenera1 · Jun 29, 2020

I've given my advice to you in a PM as we were already discussing there

.

The TL; DR is you're over playing marginal hands and drawing with incorrect odds.

Meister7775 · Jul 14, 2020

Back from last two weeks play.

Total roll: USD 121,-
Win rate: 6.6bb/100 (nl2&nl5 combined)
Total won: USD 64,-
61000 hands

Moved up to NL5 again.

Main observations: a. better to play tighter compared to NL2 b. taking advantage of overaggressive play pre-flop (a lot of 3 betting) and post flop opponents staking themselves with weak hands such as KJ, Ax holding).

1. www.cardschat.com/replayer/624EgUnCH
binmanofdeath: VPIP 56, PFR 56, 3Bet 33, Agg 3

2. www.cardschat.com/replayer/524Eh03SX
MaitreGougou: VPIP 40, PFR 27, 3Bet 0, Agg 4

3. www.cardschat.com/replayer/524EgZFhH
HeliMan13: VPIP 53, PFR 50, 3Bet 29, Agg 2

pablo lima · Jul 14, 2020

I fight every day whether it is micro or not what matters is that even playing daily I can't reach the final table and always pinch a few cents and nothing more.

Meister7775 · Jul 14, 2020

This is an addition to the other hands posted above and sheds more colour on the bluffs the NL5 player are running. Just crazy!

www.cardschat.com/replayer/424EkG0Tk
Cortiff: VPIP 75, PFR 25, 3Bet 25, Agg 2 (however only 12 hands on this player)

I have folded my hand herea. Any thoughts how to best play this in a different manner welcome! Never fold?

Struggling at the micros - Online 1/2c 6 max

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