Is my playing style dirty?

[rifflemao]

I wonder if the shortstack strategy is somehow less immune to variance. It probably isn't, but I can see how buying in short tempers the swings.

One of the WPT Boot Camp Instructors employed a shortstack strategy while transitioning from SnGs to cash, which was a logical way to begin, but he graduated to buying in for the max to learn deep-stacked play.

@Op, turns out the term for this type of play is called Rampaging. There are some threads about it in the forum here.

Given the thread title, this post is kind of funny. :bath:

 

[Mr Sandbag]

I wonder if the shortstack strategy is somehow less immune to variance. It probably isn't, but I can see how buying in short tempers the swings.

One of the WPT Boot Camp Instructors employed a shortstack strategy while transitioning from SnGs to cash, which was a logical way to begin, but he graduated to buying in for the max to learn deep-stacked play.

@Op, turns out the term for this type of play is called Rampaging. There are some threads about it in the forum here.

Given the thread title, this post is kind of funny. :bath:

I believe it is quite the opposite actually. Short stacks are more susceptible to variance. They become more pot committed, can't exercise pot control effectively, and can't make good folds on late streets.

 

[turtelliusshellius]

Honestly, I used to believe in poker etiquette until I played online. I would announce my departure a couple of rounds ahead of time so I didn't just hit and run. Unfortunately, since I've played online I've become much less "courteous" due to people hit and running me. So, old me would have said "your play is dirty, be more courteous." But new me says "go for it, you won it and it's yours". Although I will say this, if you give a 2 round courtesy notice and then play super tight, a lot of times you'll get people mixing it up with you just hoping to suck out on you (which we all know doesn't happen as often as the winning hand holds up).

 

[Vhyre]

I usually sit down with something like a mid range buy in. A lot of the time the goal is just to cover an MTT entry and maybe a rebuy without going into my principal funds. But having a few dollars at your disposal can be a good thing. Its a shame to make 2 when it might have been 10.

 

[Tgoat17]

I think it's bad etiquette to hit and Run. Cowardly, more so heads up! I would never do it personally....

 

[jordanbillie]

Well I do double up or leave with 50% increase 5 out of 6 times. A few times I stay and keep playing.

Today I went from $2 to $11 in 4 hands.

J 10 - 2 Pair Double up
QQ vs 1010 against the guy that just doubled me up
.50 cent pre flop called Flop K 10 10 (2 people in and no bets to the river.) Thought id use my new winnings to try and bluffed the pot and took another few dollars.
Next hand had an ugly flop but no bets again and I got runner runner for 2 pair and a few more dollars. It was kind of nice

For those that say ill lose my money playing this way. It's impossible as I can still see alot of value flops and im not shoving all in ever. Until after the flop or if I have a monster hand.

The BIGGEST asset about playing this way is IF I get into a VALUE flop and am chasing a flush I don't have to waste a ton of money to try to hit the flop. I can be all in for little and if I miss oh well it didn't cost me $6 to chase.

Sure if I had more money and DID chase and DID win then I would get alot more. But again I look at the damage taken. I would rather lose a little to win some. Then lose alot to possible win more. It keeps me from getting involved with hands that can do alot of damage to your BR in 1 go.

Some day I hope you realize that you have the entire concept of poker backwards.

 

[Mr Sandbag]

Well I do double up or leave with 50% increase 5 out of 6 times. A few times I stay and keep playing.

Today I went from $2 to $11 in 4 hands.

J 10 - 2 Pair Double up
QQ vs 1010 against the guy that just doubled me up
.50 cent pre flop called Flop K 10 10 (2 people in and no bets to the river.) Thought id use my new winnings to try and bluffed the pot and took another few dollars.
Next hand had an ugly flop but no bets again and I got runner runner for 2 pair and a few more dollars. It was kind of nice

For those that say ill lose my money playing this way. It's impossible as I can still see alot of value flops and im not shoving all in ever. Until after the flop or if I have a monster hand.

The BIGGEST asset about playing this way is IF I get into a VALUE flop and am chasing a flush I don't have to waste a ton of money to try to hit the flop. I can be all in for little and if I miss oh well it didn't cost me $6 to chase.

Sure if I had more money and DID chase and DID win then I would get alot more. But again I look at the damage taken. I would rather lose a little to win some. Then lose alot to possible win more. It keeps me from getting involved with hands that can do alot of damage to your BR in 1 go.

I don't think you get it. That statement in bold proves it. You don't determine whether or not you should chase by the "price" of the draw but rather the size of the pot, stack sizes, opponents' potential hands, etc. I'd chase a draw for an entire buy-in if I was getting the correct pot odds and/or implied odds. You can chase a draw for $0.05 and still be making an unprofitable choice.

People win at poker because they play with large stacks, get tons of value out of their hands, and make great folds when needed.

When you play short-stacked, you become committed to pots sooner in the hand. This prevents you from making good folds, from getting max value from your good hands, and from being able to force your opponents into making bad decisions.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Honestly, I used to believe in poker etiquette until I played online. I would announce my departure a couple of rounds ahead of time so I didn't just hit and run. Unfortunately, since I've played online I've become much less "courteous" due to people hit and running me. So, old me would have said "your play is dirty, be more courteous." But new me says "go for it, you won it and it's yours". Although I will say this, if you give a 2 round courtesy notice and then play super tight, a lot of times you'll get people mixing it up with you just hoping to suck out on you (which we all know doesn't happen as often as the winning hand holds up).

Knowing when to be courteous to others at the table is almost as valuable as knowing when to fold your hand.

You need to learn to be kind when the times right, keep those fish at the table and keep ppls spirits high when they are losing so they stick around. Often the guys at the table you need to watch out for are the nice guys because some maybe infact doing this strategy as we speak.

PPl when they are happier will throw more chips in the middle as well and have more confidence...


But sometimes being kind to the wrong people will often mean your a push over but ofc you can play that table image as well

 

[Aces2w1n]

I usually sit down with something like a mid range buy in. A lot of the time the goal is just to cover an MTT entry and maybe a rebuy without going into my principal funds. But having a few dollars at your disposal can be a good thing. Its a shame to make 2 when it might have been 10.

Are you one of these people who join the table... Bet like crazy and win a few ez big pots uncontested and go off and play a tourney?

I hate those guys who make money that ez I know it can't work all the time but some ppl make it look ez

 

[rumsey182]

making 20 bucks in 5-6 hours is hardly worth it and your not really learning how to improve either

 

[mange1234]

If you win its right

Join .05-.10 and buy in for the minimum $2. Play really tight and try to sneak into some hands at the low end big blind @ .10 then I eventually double up and then leave.

I find that $2 gives me enough money to see enough flops to eventually hit. I don't need to bluff like crazy or anything and keeps me from just chasing anything.

I started playing that from about $4 left I was on a $10 deposit... Just wanted to play on my cell phone.

Anyways I built that up to $33 in 2 days and maybe 4 or 5 hours played. It seems to work and I find that sometimes I WILL stay but sometimes you will take a bad beat and lose. So why not just take your winnings then come back?




The reason why I play lower end is because if I buy in for $8 and hit a bad beat like yesterday (88) flop 842 no flush draw. I bet guy raises and I raise. We are all in. He flips KK and hits a king on the turn. It happens but if I had $8 at the table then it would take awhile to get that $8 back. At $2 again most pots are usually 0.40 or something. So its easy to gain it back.

Am I playing CHEAP?


Also just played 2 tables 100 hands starting at $2 each. I stayed at the table till 100 and finished first table up $2 and second table up $3 I averaged seeing the flop 25% of the time.

All in all I feel like it's cheap but is it super cheap way to play?:dontknow:

Hey Mr Wu,

My opinion is, if it works for you, stick with it. Don't worry abut any thing else at the table. Wining is the name of the game. And, making the money.

Stick with it.

Mike

 

[MediaBLITZ]

It has always been a strange paradigm to me to have the focus on minimizing losing as opposed to maximizing winning. Now granted there is always some of both in the ebb and flow of the game - BUT you can only do both with a big stack. A short stack approach does indeed minimize losses, but it also minimizes winnings.
Honestly though, it sounds like you have not yet the developed the skills needed to go deep stacked and should stay the present course - BUT for gawd's sake learn some poker theory and get beyond just trying to hit a hand by limping in. That's really not much different than playing roulette.

 

[enesem]

I hate the short stack players.

They are easy to spot, and you know if they are in a hand it's a coin toss, they will usually have AA, KK, QQ. If they win they are straight off the table.

Mostly I don't bother with them, to me they are the bottom feeders of Poker, no technique, so skill, no fun.

 

[jj20002]

i think is a matter of variance, maybe if you had played with 40$ instead of 2$ you had won more money because the variance had been with you,

but it is my opinion, if you think this way works with you (earning 30$ per 4 hours) well you can keep it and play 4 or 5 tables at the same time with the same 2 dollars in each so you could be making 120-150 dolllars per 4 hours, 30-40 per hour, which is not bad at all

 

[dealio96]

If you're going to "hit and run" do it at bovada where its anonymous. Ring regs usually don't take lightly to HnR's and you will be known as "that guy".

 

[duggs]

i think is a matter of variance, maybe if you had played with 40$ instead of 2$ you had won more money because the variance had been with you,

but it is my opinion, if you think this way works with you (earning 30$ per 4 hours) well you can keep it and play 4 or 5 tables at the same time with the same 2 dollars in each so you could be making 120-150 dolllars per 4 hours, 30-40 per hour, which is not bad at all

Those win rates 5 tabling short stacked 5nl are not realistic

 

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

Hey Mr Wu,

My opinion is, if it works for you, stick with it. Don't worry abut any thing else at the table. Wining is the name of the game. And, making the money.

Stick with it.

Mike

While I don't disagree, almost everyone who have tried this method, have gone broke at the end of the day and realize that they've missed out so much potential on making money when cards and variance are working towards their favor. I've mentioned before on this thread that if he's able to utilize this and consistently win, then I applaud him. But almost everyone who have done short-stack hit n run while not auto-topping have gone broke at the end. When I first started off online, I've done similar and didn't work out. As I've studied cash game strategies, threads, etc, I realized how much implied odds I missed out on, how much I missed out on taking advantage of positions, defending against my blinds, c-betting selectively and taking down the pot without having a hand, etc.

If it's working out for him, then go for it but I can assure you over 90% of the time, it won't work and in order to win, which as you said, is the name of the game, you need to fully learn how to take advantage of potential winnings.

 

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

If you're going to "hit and run" do it at bovada where its anonymous. Ring regs usually don't take lightly to HnR's and you will be known as "that guy".

This, I heavily agree with. Being a former reg at microstakes when I used to play before Black Friday, I used to note hit-n-run short stackers and I will only get into the pots with them I am willing to take my hand to the showdown with, while taking advantage of position and their fear of losing money by constantly raising on their blinds and c-betting if called pre-flop since they can't afford to float or call my bets unless they have a hand.

But in Bovada, I can't do that because everyone is labeled by numbers and they're all anonymous.

 

[Poker Orifice]

The reason why I play lower end is because if I buy in for $8 and hit a bad beat like yesterday (88) flop 842 no flush draw. I bet guy raises and I raise. We are all in. He flips KK and hits a king on the turn. It happens but if I had $8 at the table

So you figure this is saving you money?

Relating it to your HandHistory example to help you make sense of it (so you can see where your logic fails).
90% of the time you will be winning $8
10% of the time you will be losing $8

But your logic has you 'saving' money here?

This would be like me making you an offer "Pick 9 numbers between 1 & 10... I'll take the number you don't pick. Now lets do this 100x, each time betting say $10. Can you see how that might be a winning proposition?

OR how about we flip a coin for $10....but this is a special coin that lands on Heads 9/10 times. If I gave you an oppurtunity to up the bets to $100 (instead of just $10)... would you be saving money if you stuck with the $10 bet because I MIGHT hit Tails? (keep in mind we're flipping that coin as many times as you want).

.... was this any help?

 

[zEric7x]

I like playing against certain types of short stackers. The bad ones. Either way it doesn't bother me at all. If you want to double up and leave, bye then.

 

[Chipper_Tracy42]

If the primary reason you are playing short stack is because of the lack of money to finance your hobby/game then go get a job. If you are still a student, study hard so that you can get high grades that could land you to a better paying job. If you already have a job but is not paying you well, then I suggest that you take further studies or seminars that could get you a promotion or will land you to a better paying job. If you have some habits that can be expensive in the long run, like smoking and beers and whatnot, try to minimize it. The savings you get from that can be added to your bankroll.

If you already have the proper roll and still you insist to play short, then I have nothing more to say but GL at the tables.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Hmmm learned a bit since I posted on here... Just wanted to say your starving yourself from the poker game and in the end you'll lose out.

Eventually you'll change your style and you'll lose everything because you've built ur roll on something fake/not real so its just a matter of time buddy. Proove me wrong.

 

[Aces2w1n]

If your winning so much though just increase your tables... do 12 on pstars should be ez enuff with a tight game like urs

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

The main problem I see with this strategy is that you're failing to develop the rest of your game, you're not growing as a player.

Let's face it, not everyone plays poker for a living and not everyone's #1 goal is to make money. (Myself included. My goal is to break even while funding my poker vacations). But I do it for the love of competition and challenge of "cracking the code" of each player and table...for the thrill of playing...I just truly love playing poker and would continue to do it even if I was a losing player. it is like doing the NY times crossword...nobody chides crossword puzzle enthusiasts about all the money they could have been making during that 90 mins they chose to do the crossword.

But.... If after years of doing crosswords I was still on the "cosmopolitan" magazine crossword intended for 9th grade girls... It might start to seem like I'm in a rut and afraid to challenge myself...but if that's what I enjoy doing.... What's the harm I guess?

So if your goals in playing are to make money, you're leaving equity on the table and not maximizing your winrate.

If your goals are fun and challenge; your not really challenging yourself or developing your game... But if you truly enjoy it, carry on.

 

[gtothec]

If you're worried about screwing you br over and want to just flip coins and not play any real poker go play hyper turbos.
If u want to learn how to be better then buy in for 100bb and play poker