Omaha H/L

jdeliverer

jdeliverer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Total posts
1,386
Chips
0
(flushes & boats - both of which cannot be tied)

Nearly always true, but with a board of [Js] [Jc] [Kh] [Ah] [2c]:

[Jd] [Kc] ties [Jh] [Kd], and of course, everyone loves Jack King off (suit)

CAPT. ZIGZAG said:
APPARENTLY NOT!!!

Rookies raise preflop in PLO8..... :rolleyes:

You don't know what you're talking about. Look at any high stakes omaha table and you'll see raising and raising preflop every 2-3 pots. Those aren't rookies playing in almost all cases.

Saying never raise preflop is definitely closed-minded and ignorant, in my opinion. A good hand for scooping low and high should most definitely be raised every time, for value and isolation.

And for the record, saying "I REPEAT" to someone's response without giving ANY reasons why you are correct is borderline rude.

[
 
juz2swt

juz2swt

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Total posts
92
Chips
0
APPARENTLY NOT!!!

Rookies raise preflop in PLO8..... :rolleyes:


---


AMEN to that... all the newbs raise and re raise with A23 in their hand thinking they are going to make the nut low...
 
SAH89

SAH89

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Total posts
330
Chips
0
It's funny when a pot is raised and 3 high cards come on board and they fold.
 
KICKIN_ACES

KICKIN_ACES

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Total posts
1,780
Chips
0
just found this article thought it might be helpful :)
it states some of the same things others have posted here plus a little more . good luck

Thoughts on Omaha-8
Article written by Jennifer Harmann
Provided by Full Tilt Poker


In an earlier tip, I gave advice for playing Stud-8 or Better. For this article, I'll look at the other popular hi/lo split game, Omaha-8 or Better.

In my article on Stud-8, I encouraged players to look for hands that have the possibility of scooping entire pots. The same goes for Omaha-8: whenever possible, you need to position yourself to take every chip from a big pot.
The best Omaha-8 hands have four cards that work together. Something like Ad-Ks-2d-4s is a terrific hand. It gives opportunities for high hands with flushes and straights. It's also likely to make a winning low. When you see a hand with this sort of potential, play it aggressively pre-flop. You also want to play hands like Ad-2c-3h-5s, Ad-2c-3s-8c, and Ah-2d-3c-Qc, but since these hands don't have as many opportunities to make great highs, you may not want to be as aggressive.
Some players overvalue any hand that contains A-2. For example, a hand like Ah-2c-8s-Jd isn't all that great. It's got a chance to win the low half of a pot, but it's unlikely to make a decent high. Another problem is that a hand with A-2 and not much else is in danger of "getting quartered." That means if another player holds A-2, you'll only win half of the low half. Getting quartered in a big Omaha-8 hand isn't much fun.
That warning aside, in very loose Omaha-8 games where six or seven players are seeing every flop, you should play most hands that have A-2. The pots will be large enough to justify playing for only the low half of the pot. But even in a multi-way pot, there's no need to play every hand with A-2 aggressively. When you have little chance of winning a high, you're better off seeing a flop cheaply.
In tight games, where only two or three players are contesting most pots, you can muck a hand like Ah-2c-8s-Jd pre-flop. When the pots are small, you don't want to get involved in any confrontation where you have little chance of making a good high hand.
Many players undervalue hands that contain four high cards. For example, a hand like K-Q-J-T is a solid Omaha-8 hand. Any flop that has two cards above a 9 will give K-Q-J-T a straight draw, two-pair, or a set. On such a flop, there probably won't be a qualifying low, so there's a great chance to scoop. (In Omaha-8, three of the board cards must be 8 or below for anyone to make a low that can take half the pot.) If the flop has three low cards, you can abandon K-Q-J-T, knowing that it's got essentially no chance to win.
Should you find yourself playing a hand with four high cards, don't be seduced by a flop that gives you only top pair. A flop of K-5-2 is not good if you're holding K-Q-J-T. With such a flop, you can be pretty sure that some of your opponents are playing the low end of the deck and are working on powerful lows and straight draws. In fact, in multi-way pots, you should be wary of any single pair or even two-pair. It usually takes a strong hand to take the high-half of a multi-way Omaha-8 pot; a five-card hand - a straight, flush or full house is often necessary to win.
Omaha-8 attracts players who love to play pots. Many draw too frequently and play hands that can only get them in trouble. If you learn to play Omaha-8, you can take advantage of these loose players and turn a solid profit.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

Miss you, Buckster,,,,,
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Total posts
3,130
Awards
1
Chips
1
Nearly always true, but with a board of J♠ J♣ K♥ A♥ 2♣:

J♦ K♣ ties J♥ K♦, and of course, everyone loves Jack King off (suit)
I usually see a lot of king jack offs at the table. Yes, I realized my mistake shortly after I posted, but had to leave for the day. But that's not even the example I thought of. This one is probably a little rarer, but let's say flop brings AAA, and 2 of you have QQ.

You don't know what you're talking about. Look at any high stakes omaha table and you'll see raising and raising preflop every 2-3 pots. Those aren't rookies playing in almost all cases.

Saying never raise preflop is definitely closed-minded and ignorant, in my opinion. A good hand for scooping low and high should most definitely be raised every time, for value and isolation.

And for the record, saying "I REPEAT" to someone's response without giving ANY reasons why you are correct is borderline rude.
Okay, you can make a good argument for raising a great scoop hand, like A23K double suited. I don't play high stakes, but would imagine yes, no rookies. So a raise means a little more, and isolation works here. In a freeroll or low-stakes tournment play, raising early on doesn't seem to work that way - deeper into it, yes. But if I miss completely, someone else caught - no c-betting, check/fold.
 
Last edited:
jdeliverer

jdeliverer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Total posts
1,386
Chips
0
Divebitch said:
Okay, you can make a good argument for raising a great scoop hand, like A23K double suited. I don't play high stakes, but would imagine yes, no rookies. So a raise means a little more, and isolation works here. In a freeroll or low-stakes tournment play, raising early on doesn't seem to work that way - deeper into it, yes. But if I miss completely, someone else caught - no c-betting, check/fold.

So say you are a 60/40 to hit the flop better than they did (assume HU for simplicity), would you rather:

1. Win 1BB 60% of the time and lose 1BB 40% of the time (EV = 0.60*1+0.40*-1 = 0.2)
or 2. Win 3BB 60% of the time and lose 3BB 40% of the time (EV = 0.60*3+0.40*-3 = 0.6, not counting fold equity)?
 
-foldemstupid

-foldemstupid

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Total posts
68
Chips
0
Well I play omaha h/l alot and ppl do get burned by A2 about as much and often as AA but dont get discouraged cause with those hands ur bound to win jus control urself with the bets!:deal: :cool:

Me again ,I just wanted to say its pretty easy in omaha to know if ur gonna win a portion of the pot ,watch how ppl bet and when this can give ya clues as to what they are holdin..gl buddy!:party: :wavey: :smokin: :fight:
:rolleyes:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Divebitch

Divebitch

Miss you, Buckster,,,,,
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Total posts
3,130
Awards
1
Chips
1
So say you are a 60/40 to hit the flop better than they did (assume HU for simplicity), would you rather:

1. Win 1BB 60% of the time and lose 1BB 40% of the time (EV = 0.60*1+0.40*-1 = 0.2)
or 2. Win 3BB 60% of the time and lose 3BB 40% of the time (EV = 0.60*3+0.40*-3 = 0.6, not counting fold equity)?

I'm not a student of poker, so don't even know what EV is. :D However, I I do understand the math easily. Just not sure how it applies, and if HU would work the same. The math might, but wouldn't the mental aspects or atmosphere (I can't come up with the right words) of a multi-table pot affect gameplay? I mean, don't think sitting there with poker calculating software is the answer. But as always, I could be wrong. :p Always trying to take into consideration many factors at once with each hand, without quantifying to any degree of exactness. Maybe it's just my style, and maybe it's wrong, but I'm not comfortable in preflop raising anything but the very most optimum hands in Omaha.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
This thread is serious lulz.

Keep preachin' James, maybe one day you'll save their souls.
 
Makwa

Makwa

Undesirable Predator
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Total posts
6,080
Chips
0
It's funny when a pot is raised and 3 high cards come on board and they fold.
Ya, especially when I raised with my KK preflop (see my post above) and isolated one or 2 peeps with A2 rag rag.
 
KMC1828

KMC1828

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Total posts
2,162
Chips
0
Rookies raise preflop in PLO8 w/ crappy hands, don't know when to stop and lay the hand down, get burned, and then bitch about it after calling the person who beat them a donk.....pro's raise with good hands preflop and know when to cut their losses and look to capitalize on the mistakes of others next time. :rolleyes:

FYP
 
jdeliverer

jdeliverer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Total posts
1,386
Chips
0


Thank you... saying the word "never" is very rarely a wise choice in poker. I think the statement was later amended to '...except with the most optimum hands' which is more acceptable, that's just being TAG. But you still want to be playing aggressively, especially with high hands.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

Miss you, Buckster,,,,,
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Total posts
3,130
Awards
1
Chips
1
Thank you... saying the word "never" is very rarely a wise choice in poker. I think the statement was later amended to '...except with the most optimum hands' which is more acceptable, that's just being TAG. But you still want to be playing aggressively, especially with high hands.

I edit a lot, not sure I edited that line, but I'll take your word. In all fairness, in my first post in this thread, I said "Personally, I'm not a fan of reraising until I see the flop (ok, maybe that AA23 if double-suited :D ). "
See, not even raising, but REraising. I also commented elwehere that pre-flopping is like bingo. Should have qualified that. I didn't say thanks for the 60-40% stuff, so thanks. Don't know where the numbers come from, but I DO get the concept now, very simple really. :D
 
E

E-Dub

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Total posts
64
Chips
0
A couple things on the high end...

It is a rarer split simply due to the nature of the high (flushes & boats - both of which cannot be tied)

:D

This is gonna sound really nitpicky, especially when you had such nice things to say about my earlier post in this thread. But, a boat most certainly can be tied, even in Omaha where you have to use two of your hole cards. Two players each holding A-Q-x-x would chop the hi pot on a board of, say, A-A-Q-8-5. They would each have the absolute nuts on the high side with aces full of queens.

I've seen this happen a couple of times with full houses splitting the high. One of the sickest things I've ever seen is where a high was chopped with identical full houses, but one player had the absolute nut low too and the "loser" had the 2nd nut low and wound up only with his quarter on the high side.
 
jdeliverer

jdeliverer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Total posts
1,386
Chips
0
This is gonna sound really nitpicky, especially when you had such nice things to say about my earlier post in this thread. But, a boat most certainly can be tied, even in Omaha where you have to use two of your hole cards. Two players each holding A-Q-x-x would chop the hi pot on a board of, say, A-A-Q-8-5. They would each have the absolute nuts on the high side with aces full of queens.

I've seen this happen a couple of times with full houses splitting the high. One of the sickest things I've ever seen is where a high was chopped with identical full houses, but one player had the absolute nut low too and the "loser" had the 2nd nut low and wound up only with his quarter on the high side.

See my above post.
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

Miss you, Buckster,,,,,
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Total posts
3,130
Awards
1
Chips
1
I've seen this happen a couple of times with full houses splitting the high. One of the sickest things I've ever seen is where a high was chopped with identical full houses, but one player had the absolute nut low too and the "loser" had the 2nd nut low and wound up only with his quarter on the high side.

James was right on it. I caught up to it later. There are 2 ways (that I can think of :p ) where a boat can be tied. The way you & James mentioned, and the one I mentioned with trips on the table.

Originally Posted by jamesdadeliverer
Nearly always true, but with a board of J♠ J♣ K♥ A♥ 2♣:

J♦ K♣ ties J♥ K♦, and of course, everyone loves Jack King off (suit)

I usually see a lot of king jack offs at the table. Yes, I realized my mistake shortly after I posted, but had to leave for the day. But that's not even the example I thought of. This one is probably a little rarer, but let's say flop brings AAA, and 2 of you have QQ.
 
Pothole

Pothole

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Total posts
2,507
Chips
0
Seeing as this thread is still going, I will restate my earlier point. IMO, a pre flop raise in OMh/l, is the dumbest bet in poker. I followed a cash game for over an hr, the pre flop raiser ( except for when everyone folded, twice ) lost 90% of the time when called. I know peeps will say "it's a small sample". So you go and watch for longer, the results may differ by a few percentage points, but not enough for a raise to make a profit.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
lost 90% of the time when called. I know peeps will say "it's a small sample"
Do you even know about such things as "odds calculators"? Do you understand that some hands are favorites over others? Do you understand that its better to play certain hands heads up?

These are simple concepts, and if you don't understand how those relate to preflop raising, I suppose I should start with the fundamental theorem of poker...
 
Pothole

Pothole

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Total posts
2,507
Chips
0
Do you even know about such things as "odds calculators"? Do you understand that some hands are favorites over others? Do you understand that its better to play certain hands heads up?

These are simple concepts, and if you don't understand how those relate to preflop raising, I suppose I should start with the fundamental theorem of poker...

All the above is irrelavent, I know what I saw. As for a hand being fav over another hand, we would all be winners every time right?:rolleyes: What happens in theory doesn't always happen in practise. Don't recall the heads up part being mentioned.?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
All the above is irrelavent, I know what I saw. As for a hand being fav over another hand, we would all be winners every time right?:rolleyes: What happens in theory doesn't always happen in practise. Don't recall the heads up part being mentioned.?
So if you have pocket aces, then its pointless to raise before the flop, since it could come out 678 all of one suit that you don't have right?
 
S

sketchpad

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Total posts
209
Chips
0
too many people just don't really understand h/l and they don't know how to fold a hand to begin with...if you're losing money from quartering then you should be folding and seeing more cheap flops instead of losing your checks slowly. Four to a mid-straight seems to always work for me....5678 ish ya know
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
No, not pointless....... It's stupid.
You guys are awesome at making arguments that have no substance. You've done nothing but spat out pointless & wrong statements like "its stupid" and "only rookies raise".

This calls for THE SANITY AVENGER!

The Sanity Avenger is my alter ego, and we he will explain to you why you are wrong with 2 arguments:

Argument Numero Uno: We have more equity, so we should exploit that edge!
Suppose I am holding a very strong hand, such as A23Kds, and my opponents will play hands such as a 56JTr. If we each put 1$ into the pot, I will win $1.25 on average because we have 62% equity in the pot. That's not a "theory", that's straight up probability. If you have a bag full of marbles, 9 are red & 1 is white, and you pull a random marble out of the bag, over the long run 90% of the marbles you pull out will be red. This is no different. Arguing that "theory doesn't always happen in practice" is just variance over the short term.

Argument Numero Dos: Pro's raise in Omaha 8
Captain Zig Zag said a bunch of fun quotes like:
Rookies raise preflop in PLO8..... :rolleyes:
However, if only rookies raise preflop, then obviously if Barry Greenstein raises preflop, he must be a rookie.

Here is a video of Barry Greenstein playing HORSE. Notice, at 10:45 in the video, he raises preflop with AQ73ss. So by your logic, Barry Greenstein is either a rookie, or you're horribly wrong.

So in conclusion, you're horribly wrong. You can proceed to keep spewing your horrible advice of never raising preflop, but the only purpose it will serve is to entertain us with your stubborn ignorance.
 
Top