Omaha H/L

mdafka

mdafka

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Reguarding a nut low hand, involving A2
It seems that I lose alot of chips with this hand.
I usually dont reraise with it, I just call. But it seems most of the time I quarter. l dont feel I should fold , but I'm tired of quartering
Not really sure what I'm asking here..lol
But any advice on this type of situation would be appreciated
TY
 
SAH89

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It's worth a preflop raise if you also have okay high cards, otherwise, just call and hope for a good low, but somethimes you will bw counterfeited if a 2 comes on board and someone holds A3...

and in O8, A2 isn't a hand, it's only half a hand, so it depends what else you have to what you do...eg:

AA23...RAISE, REREAISE..

A29Q, call, but you can still get away from it post flop, raise only if in position, if many people reraising, you could fold preflop unless in the blinds.
 
Divebitch

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Reguarding a nut low hand, involving A2
It seems that I lose alot of chips with this hand.
I usually dont reraise with it, I just call. But it seems most of the time I quarter. l dont feel I should fold , but I'm tired of quartering
Not really sure what I'm asking here..lol
But any advice on this type of situation would be appreciated
TY

You might want to check out this thread, developed into same discussion....

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/could-somebody-explain-omaha-showdown-me-129211/

Sah89 makes a good point about getting counterfeited. First off though, if you have only 2 low cards (A2), excellent chance you'll have NO LOW when an A or 2 flops, unless a 4th low card comes (grim). IF that happens, the counterfeiting comes in when you cannot use the nice 2 on the board. Your low is to the 3 highest low cards, but others can use the 2 on the table. This is how many screw up. Let's say you have A2, and the first 4 cards are 2578. You THINK you still have the low, but it's to the 8. Anyone with even a 36 is to the 7, and has you beat. THAT is counterfeiting. Even a 5 or 6 in your hand (with the A2 can come in very handy.

Now if you have A23 or even A24 or A34, there's a far less chance that 2 of your 3 low cards will hit. In the case of A34, you hand can be more powerful than than A2 if a 2 (or even an ace) hits the board, and f*#ks up all the raisers' A2 lows - you're less likely to split the low (as well as more likely to win it period, even if it's not the absolute nuts). She also makes a good point about the low being only half the hand. A2 paired with a rainbow of 8Q is a weak hand. See the flop as cheaply as possible. If a low rainbow hits the board and everyone's reraising, rest assured you will 1/4 the pot. You'll probably still make money if more than 4 people are in the hand.

Personally, I'm not a fan of reraising until I see the flop (ok, maybe that AA23 if double-suited :D ). But if limit, I'll call down anything to JUST see the flop with A2. There's a good chance there won't even BE a low, especially if you don't see 2 low cards on the flop. There's always plenty of time to raise after the flop, no matter what comes. :p

Oh, last words, if there are fewer than 5 people in the pot, and you feel certain you don't have a high hand, stop raising with your nut A2 low. Just call. Last last words... In the other thread, we talked about splitting a low 3 ways. It's uncommon, but to say there needs to be 6 in the hand is ridiculously careful. You wouldn't lose THAT much. But to split a low even once with only 1 or 2 other people in the hand, you can lose quite a bit.
 
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RickH2005

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Ummm---ahhh.........

Bev, if you've got nuts low, why would'nt you want to raise until the cows come home?? Why just call??:confused:
 
CAPT. ZIGZAG

CAPT. ZIGZAG

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The object of PLO8 is to SCOOP. (win the high and the low)

An A2 in PLO8 on it's own without high straight, or nut flush possibilities on board is not that strong of a hand. Why? Because you run into the very real possibility of splitting the low only. (Re: loose money) Sound familiar? You also have a very real chance of not hitting a low hand at all. (Re: loose money) :mad:

On a split pot, a low only, or a high only win in PLO8 is considered a save. Not a win

Only play hands which offer you the opportunity to scoop.


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RickH2005

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The object of PLO8 is to SCOOP. (win the high and the low)

An A2 in PLO8 on it's own without high straight, or nut flush possibilities on board is not that strong of a hand. Why? Because you run into the very real possibility of splitting the low only. (Re: loose money) Sound familiar? You also have a very real chance of not hitting a low hand as well. (Re: loose money) :mad:

A low only, or a high only win in PLO8 is considered a save. Not a win

Only play hands which offer you the opportunity to scoop.


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By 'scoop' you mean Hi AND Low, right?? Can you tell I don't play Omaha much??:eek:
 
Pothole

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Divebitch makes a lot of interesting points and many good ones too. IMO, the dumbest bet in poker, is a pre flop raise in Om 08. The ONLY hand you can expect to do it with is A2. You have signalled that you are playing for the low hand, in effect, half the pot and if another player has A2 as well, your playing for a 1/4 pot and setting yourself up for a loss. Watch a full ring cash game for a while and see how many times the pre flop raiser wins the pot. Many players forget that Om, Stud and Razz are drawing games, it's not what you have, it's what you can make. Another mistake you will see, is players raising and reraising when they have flopped the nuts. Trust me, especially in Om, the nuts on the flop is usually the chitz by 7th street.
 
Divebitch

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The object of PLO8 is to SCOOP. (win the high and the low)

On a split pot, a low only, or a high only win in PLO8 is considered a save. Not a win

Only play hands which offer you the opportunity to scoop.

A save, I love it. :laugh:

Yes Rick, a scoop is hi and lo. Don't know how much better I could explain but I'll try. It would be fine to reraise for even half the pot, were it assured. But with A2 (since NO ONE throws this away), you often split the pot for little or negative rewards. I will only reraise an A2 low if there are at least 4 people in the pot to build equity (it happens, but the high rarely gets split), and only after the river to be sure I am not counterfeited.

Let's say on the other hand you have a hand like QK45 double-suited. I'm not in it for the low, but it's possible. A27 with flush draw comes, no pairs. My low is not the nuts, but it's close. I also know that anyone IN IT for the low is busted. IF my low is good, I probably won't split it.
 
CAPT. ZIGZAG

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Divebitch makes a lot of interesting points and many good ones too. IMO, the dumbest bet in poker, is a pre flop raise in Om 08.

icon14.gif
Yes, this is an important point.

NEVER pre-flop raise in PLO8.

Also, to get a little deeper, If you have a strong high only hand. It's a better bet (no necessarily a good one) than a good low only hand, because many times there is no low hand.

With either, depending on the table, it may be a proper move to call the blind in an effort see a cheap flop. But, your best friend after that is the fold button.


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M

mange

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Omaha Hi Lo

Yea,

That is a tough one. To be quartered in Hi Lo is rough. Specially when there is a big pot and you have all your money in it. And, win part of the pot and wind up with less money in your stack.

Omaha Hi lo is my favorite game because it is fun to play. I like the excitment of catching a good hi draw and a good low draw. Thats just me.

However, alway remember that Omaha hi lo differs from Holdem in the fact that it is a post flop game. Not a pre flop game.

So, In Omaha hi lo, a wonderful, killer preflop hand can change to rubbish after the flop.

If you have an A and duce in you hand preflop, you are hoping for two things: three more low cards less than eight, and no Ace or duce. Lots to ask for.

And, some games, you get the maniacs who want to go all in preflop. Then the decision becomes, do I want to risk my stack on the flop.

After the flop, you have already gotten 7/9 ths of your cards. So, if you dont hit by then, dont chase if price is too hi.

Also, if pair exist, most likely someone has a full house; is three to a flush shows in community cards, most likely there is a flush floating around out there, and same for a straitgt.

I have played Omaha Hi lo in the play money games and am at almost a one million dollar ahead. Because, I avoid bad situations and only bet the nuts in most cases.

It is a fun game. Just be cautious and play only good hands.

All the above advice is 2nd hand information from the pros. I am not smart enought to think it up all by my lonely. LMAO.

Good luck. And, just asking will make you a better polker player.

Message from "Super Dunk"

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
Divebitch

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Divebitch makes a lot of interesting points and many good ones too. IMO, the dumbest bet in poker, is a pre flop raise in Om 08. The ONLY hand you can expect to do it with is A2. You have signalled that you are playing for the low hand.

Another mistake you will see, is players raising and reraising when they have flopped the nuts. Trust me, especially in Om, the nuts on the flop is usually the chitz by 7th street.

There are exceptions, sometimes the signal is mixed. People misguidedly raising with what I call naked aces (accompanied by a rainbow of crap) for the high. But good point! Funny when the flop renders no low, you can sometimes hear the pin drop. :p
 
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Bev, if you've got nuts low, why would'nt you want to raise until the cows come home?? Why just call??:confused:

Because there are lots of situations where you have the nut low but are likely to get quartered. This can happen a lot when there are a bunch of wheel cards on the board. Say you have A23X and the board is A54K3. Here, there are a ton of hands that have you crushed on the high side and a ton that will split the low with you (basically any other had with a 2 and another wheel card -- 3-2, 4-2, 5-2, etc.). And believe me, at the low limits there are a bunch of people who will call a raise to see a flop with trash hands like 2467 rainbow. In this situation, where you're likely betting at half the pot, you need to get to showdown as quickly and cheaply as possible, rather than feeding the high half of the pot that you're likely to get no part of.
 
Divebitch

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A couple things on the high end...

(basically any other hand with a 2 and another wheel card -- 3-2, 4-2, 5-2, etc.).

Exactly. And this is one of the VERY few situations where the high gets split. Like if a 10JQA hit. Anyone with a K and any one of those cards wins. It is a rarer split simply due to the nature of the high (flushes & boats - both of which cannot be tied)

you need to get to showdown as quickly and cheaply as possible, rather than feeding the high half of the pot that you're likely to get no part of.

You said that better than me, feeding the pot for the hi. The inverse is also true. If you have the absolute nut hi like ace flush, you should raise out the wazoo, making the fights for low (or the poor guy with a set or lower flush) sweeten your half. :D
 
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You said that better than me, feeding the pot for the hi.

There is an exception to this in my rules.

If I have the nut low and there is more than two in the pot, I team up with the high in a raisefest to split the ATM's duckets.

This can end up in a quartered pot for me, but more times than not it doesn't. For me anyway. YMMV

Jus sayin


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Makwa

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The object of PLO8 is to SCOOP. (win the high and the low)

An A2 in PLO8 on it's own without high straight, or nut flush possibilities on board is not that strong of a hand. Why? Because you run into the very real possibility of splitting the low only. (Re: loose money) Sound familiar? You also have a very real chance of not hitting a low hand at all. (Re: loose money) :mad:

On a split pot, a low only, or a high only win in PLO8 is considered a save. Not a win

Only play hands which offer you the opportunity to scoop.


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This is right... you only mention A2 in yr post, if the other 2 cards are rags A2 is a calling hand at best... remember scooping is the goal, and premium hands involve all 4 cards, not just 2.
 
mdafka

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Humbled

Wow, I didnt expect so much response to my measley little uncertain question..lol
TYTYTY It really helps to read such good advice and understand how to approach certain situations. I love Omaha8, but have issues with that low hand, caught up in a raise frenzy chase, bs..just to find out I've quartered<sigh> I know its bound to happen, I just needed some insight on that aspect of the game so I can atleast be more aware of how to avoid it, if at all possible
Once again ty so much for all the insight and advice!
M
 
Divebitch

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icon14.gif
Yes, this is an important point.

NEVER pre-flop raise in PLO8.--

This is so true. Most people's exposure to Omaha H/L is a brief outbreak in a horse tournament. Here I commented about how after the first break in a Omaha H/L no limit (egads!!!) freeroll at PS, I was shocked to see VERY few raises. People that know what they're doing know this is true. Pre-floppimg is 'lottery' or 'bingo' at best with Omaha.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...-brag-half-comment-omaha-h-l-no-limit-129176/

Glad you could pick up any pointers, mdafka. I am certainly no expert, but probably a better flair for omaha than anything else. :p
 
Makwa

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This is so true. Most people's exposure to Omaha H/L is a brief outbreak in a horse tournament. Here I commented about how after the first break in a Omaha H/L no limit (egads!!!) freeroll at PokerStars, I was shocked to see VERY few raises. People that know what they're doing know this is true. Pre-floppimg is 'lottery' or 'bingo' at best with Omaha.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...-brag-half-comment-omaha-h-l-no-limit-129176/

Glad you could pick up any pointers, mdafka. I am certainly no expert, but probably a better flair for omaha than anything else. :p
Cant say I agree totally, if you can isolate someone in position, it is sometimes advisable to raise (in pot limit) (for instance w KKA3 -- if it flops hi u can steal).
 
Divebitch

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Cant say I agree totally, if you can isolate someone in position, it is sometimes advisable to raise (in pot limit) (for instance w KKA3 -- if it flops hi u can steal).

True, every situation is different. Also depends on whether it's limit or PL (PL to me is almost like NL). But as said b4, you don't know until the flop whether or not you have a snowball's chance in hell. You are probably not gonna 'isolate' anyone who has a A2 or otherwise attactive low hand. Nor might you isolate anyone with a Q-J-10-9 or otherwise good hand. Thing is, you are raising on a hi, and IF there IS a low, you will have spent a lot on their squabbling only to see a a good low draw, or an ace or flush (even if draw) hit the board. It's nice to isolate. Just be wary on the flop that those who stayed in could have hit.
 
Makwa

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Yes flops can be real killers in OHL, or OH, much more so than Holdem... as the possibilities are huge and you have to think way ahead with a lot of possible combinations. Owwww... just hurt my head!

But with my KK if Ive isolated and got it heads up with an A2, he has to fold a to hi flop bet (J Q 3 rainbow or etc).
 
c9h13no3

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NEVER pre-flop raise in PLO8.
Gee, that's ignorant...

Cuz, you know, exploiting your preflop edge, and limiting the field to 1-2 players/isolating is a terrible idea.
 
CAPT. ZIGZAG

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APPARENTLY NOT!!!

Rookies raise preflop in PLO8..... :rolleyes:


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