:::November micro ca$h game thread (strategy):::

[micromachine]

I have noticed that when I play more tables my level of note-taking and player analysis drops significantly.

Me too.

Playing too many tables can take the enjoyment away from playing as well.

 

[KerouacsDog]

Me too.

Playing too many tables can take the enjoyment away from playing as well.

+1. I play enough tables that a) I can note-take and colour code villains, and b) still enjoy the game.

 

[micromachine]

Trying out not 3betting my premiums yesterday. The idea is that I flat preflop and then shove pretty much any flop, hoping that they call when they hit TPTK or a draw. Can this be viable strategy?

In both hands I wasn't worried about the short stacks coming along too, because they had so little, so I considered myself to be in heads-up hands.

It seems to work well in both cases...I was 50/50 in the first hand after the flop but I suspect a regular flush draw without a pair may have come along here. In the second hand I was just really unlucky thhat he hit the Jack.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($3.48)
BB ($0.61)
UTG ($2.38)
Button ($2.16)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, K

1 fold, Button bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.05, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.14) 3

, 7

, 10

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.10, Button raises to $0.32, Hero raises to $3.42 (All-In), Button calls $1.78 (All-In)

Turn: ($4.34) 10

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.34) 3

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.34 | Rake: $0.21

Results:
Button had 7

, Q

(two pair, tens and sevens).
Hero had K

, K

(two pair, Kings and tens).
Outcome: Hero won $4.13


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($2.03)
Button ($2.77)
SB ($2.98)
Hero (BB) ($3)
UTG ($0.78)
MP ($4.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, K

UTG calls $0.02, MP bets $0.07, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.05, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.17) 2

, J

, 2

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.12, MP raises to $0.24, Hero raises to $2.93 (All-In), MP calls $2.69

Turn: ($6.03) J

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($6.03) 9

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $6.03 | Rake: $0.30

Results:
Hero had K

, K

(two pair, Kings and Jacks).
MP had J

, K

(full house, Jacks over twos).
Outcome: MP won $5.73

 

[micromachine]

btw I made the donk bet on purpose in both cases, suspecting they would reraise, allowing me to shove in reply

 

[orangepeeleo]

Your gonna lose SO much value taking lines like that, not too mention the times you hugely overshove the flop with your 1 pair hand and get called by some random 2 pair or set that flatted behind you.

This is a terrible strategy and really looks like I'm being levelled lol

 

[micromachine]

So you would advocate ALWAYS 3-betting premiums?

 

[KerouacsDog]

lol MM it looks like one of my strategies. OP said it all. ALWAYS 3-bet premiums.

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

I don't think that anyone has advocated always 3-betting premiums. They said that flatting premiums and then shoving the flop was a terrible strategy.

 

[Jurn8]

at 2nl you definately should be 3betting all premiums , theres reason to not 3bet them but theres too many fish not to at 2nl

 

[orangepeeleo]

No your not ALWAYS 3betting them, its villain dependant as is everything, but in general with a big hand and 100bb stacks you should be building a pot to setup a pot sized shove on the turn or river, fish leaks at the micros are calling too much oop and playing shit post flop, you've got to exploit this and make them do it as often as possible.

You've got to think of the size of the pot compared to the effective stack sizes on the flop, or the stack to pot ratio (spr), I'm on my phone so can't explain it fully but Google it. In hand 2 you shove like 120ish bb in to contest for a 25bb pot..... its about risk and reward

 

[micromachine]

No your not ALWAYS 3betting them, its villain dependant as is everything, but in general with a big hand and 100bb stacks you should be building a pot to setup a pot sized shove on the turn or river, fish leaks at the micros are calling too much oop and playing shit post flop, you've got to exploit this and make them do it as often as possible.

I really hate playing AA/KK any further than the flop, you are just asking for suckouts aren't you? If you wait until the turn or river to shove you are often going to be behind.

Maybe I am really missing something here but nothing has convinced me yet that this is a terrible strategy to use sometimes. I wasn't suggesting doing this every time we get premium pair, more like using it to mix things up a bit instead of auto 3-betting every time.

In terms of value, do the times they hit a set or two pair really outweigh the times they call with a worse TPTK/TPGK type hand like in the second one? I wouldn't think so. Granted that maybe it's close enough not to make it worth it though.

 

[orangepeeleo]

There are 3 outcomes to playing a hand like that, villain folds and you win 20bb, villain calls with a shit hand and you stack him, villain calls with a hand that crushes you and you get stacked, the latter two will happen a small % of the time and happen about as much as each other, the most common occurrence though will be you folding out worse hands and losing that extra value from even 1 more street.

Your being so results orientated here, you need to milk fish for all they're worth, so what if you have to fold the turn sometimes after getting baluga'd, you just made him put money in on the flop when behind and he's shit enough to let you know when your beat, how is that a bad thing?

 

[micromachine]

There are 3 outcomes to playing a hand like that, villain folds and you win 20bb, villain calls with a shit hand and you stack him, villain calls with a hand that crushes you and you get stacked, the latter two will happen a small % of the time and happen about as much as each other, the most common occurrence though will be you folding out worse hands and losing that extra value from even 1 more street.

Your being so results orientated here, you need to milk fish for all they're worth, so what if you have to fold the turn sometimes after getting baluga'd, you just made him put money in on the flop when behind and he's shit enough to let you know when your beat, how is that a bad thing?

Nicely explained. Totally agree that I will often miss value by shoving the flop when I have premium pairs. However, I don't really agree with getting my whole stack in on a later street, maybe on the turn, but not the river. Seems like you give too much opportunity to draw.

So if they just keep calling, you would suggest doing something like 3/4 pot on flop then 2/3 pot on turn and river? And if they outdraw you then so be it? In a 3bet pot this kind of betting will pretty much get entire 100BB stacks in by the river.

 

[orangepeeleo]

Well you have to re-evaluate each street depending on how the villain plays, the texture of the flop, the turn and river cards etc.
Theres nothing wrong with checking back a street if you think the boards turned bad or something, but this is where putting a villain on a range and betting to maximise value from that range comes into play

 

[orangepeeleo]

something like 3/4 pot on flop then 2/3 pot on turn and river? And if they outdraw you then so be it?

That's probably about my general bet sizing, important to note though that if they outdraw you it'll be blatantly obvious in some way, i.e. the texture of the board or the usual baluga on the turn lol

You have position though so don't be afraid of being outdrawn, you can always check a street back or bet smaller with the intention of bet folding.

In a 3bet pot this kind of betting will pretty much get entire 100BB stacks in by the river.

Thats the idea!

 

[WVHillbilly]

In a 3bet pot with 100bb effective stacks you should be able to get in comfortably by the turn.

Say you 3bet to 12bb and get one caller. The pot is 26.5bb preflop and you have 88bb left.
If you bet 21bb on the flop and get called the pot will be 68.5bb and you'll have 67bb left for a turn shove that's slightly less than pot.

Plan your hands and use your bet sizing to execute that plan.

 

[micromachine]

In a 3bet pot with 100bb effective stacks you should be able to get in comfortably by the turn.

Right, without obvious draws on the board I would be happy to put an entire 100BB stack in by the (turn at the latest) with AA or KK. I can see that 3betting has a major advantage here in that it makes it possible by the turn with a PSB.

Normally I buy in for 150BB with auto top-up on, which is maybe affecting the way I am playing these hands. Do you think I would be better off buying in for 100BB with auto-top on, so I am not scared of getting my whole stack in on later streets with premium pairs? How can I adjust when playing deep stacked?

 

[JOEBOB69]

Right, without obvious draws on the board I would be happy to put an entire 100BB stack in by the (turn at the latest) with AA or KK.I don't understand that statement.You should be more willing to get it in with draws on the board.On a dry board with a villain willing to get it in increases the chances they beat one pair. I can see that 3betting has a major advantage here in that it makes it possible by the turn with a PSB.

Normally I buy in for 150BB with auto top-up on, which is maybe affecting the way I am playing these hands. Do you think I would be better off buying in for 100BB with auto-top on, so I am not scared of getting my whole stack in on later streets with premium pairs?If i were you i would just bi 100bb deep How can I adjust when playing deep stacked?

Just give 100bb a chance an work on your overall game.

 

[micromachine]

Bad wording on my part JB, I meant without obvious/possible made draws (like a third suit on the turn, or a three suit flop)

 

[Jurn8]

I really hate playing AA/KK any further than the flop, you are just asking for suckouts aren't you? If you wait until the turn or river to shove you are often going to be behind.

Maybe I am really missing something here but nothing has convinced me yet that this is a terrible strategy to use sometimes. I wasn't suggesting doing this every time we get premium pair, more like using it to mix things up a bit instead of auto 3-betting every time.

In terms of value, do the times they hit a set or two pair really outweigh the times they call with a worse TPTK/TPGK type hand like in the second one? I wouldn't think so. Granted that maybe it's close enough not to make it worth it though.

this shows you arent thinking in ranges vs diff villian types your thinking like zomggg i has AA and dont want to lose a pot arrrrrrrrrrrr in!!

 

[F4STFORW4RD]

Can any of you guys tell me why there is such a big discrepancy between what PS shows as the average table VPIP, and what HM is showing as the average table VPIP? It's quite frustrating when PS is telling me that table Phaedra is running at 40% VPIP, for example, when in reality it is full of nits and HM reports 19%!

 

[imwatcher]

It would be to do with sample sizes im guessing...

 

[JOEBOB69]

Ok first should i be punishing the limpers with this hand?Thoughts on my raise size.Any thoughts on my cbet size?I believe it was way to much,because hijack either has a King or doesn't.

Merge $4.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1532915
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $2.89
BB: $2.80
UTG: $3.59
MP: $4.54
Hero (CO): $4.63
BTN: $1.84

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is CO with 9 :diamond: T :diamond:
UTG calls $0.04, MP calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.24, 4 folds, MP calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.58) 2 :heart: K :club: 9 :spade: (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.44

 

[bgomez89]

I like.

 

[benevg]

Ok first should i be punishing the limpers with this hand?Thoughts on my raise size.Any thoughts on my cbet size?I believe it was way to much,because hijack either has a King or doesn't.

raise size is good, hand is also decent, no need to wait for much better. cbet size, now, i would make is a little smaller, as this is a dry board - perhaps .36, if not .32 even. i don't see many people folding to .44 who would not fold to .36...