NL2 Grind, taking micros seriously

[quick]

With 35.16 BB/100, you are not crushing the level but eating their children also. I think you definitely should move up in stakes, for the sake of learning progress alone.

Sample size is way too small to make any conclusions about whether it's crushing a level or simply good variance going his way. Certainly a great start but would want to see a larger sample before even thinking about moving up from both a bankroll perspective and a learning perspective esp if Robo is trying to learn more, grind up, not deposit, and in no rush.

Im up over $50 now, 5X what i started with. over 4K hands rite now, not sure exactly. shouldnt be too long before i get to the $100 mini milestone.

What kind of bankroll rules have you established in terms of moving up/down stakes? 5x your starting roll in 4k hands is a great start but likely you're running insanely hot so even if you reach $100 quickly you'll want to make sure you have move down rules in place quick if you jump to 5NL as a new player with less than 10k hands under your belt I think.

Hi, im a new member. Ive been playing poker recreationally at various levels live and online since 2002. Ive recently made it my goal to beat online poker long term. Im a loser currently in the world of online poker. I would say i have the ability to play a solid game, but have lacked discipline, among other things. Also have played above my means while boozing in the past with negative effect. Im looking at the game as a long term business now, and focusing my efforts at the lowest possible stakes. Im playing on Americas Cardroom, under the name rObOgRiNda. Last month i played 4,291 hands at 9 max ring games, NL2. I have only been playing these stakes and will continue with that, is the plan. November's stats look good, 35.16 BB/100, $30.25 profit.

Welcome to my online adventure.

Best of luck. You sound like you have some in common with me and my poker goals/journey. Same amount of time playing, similar issues with online poker too. I've had the pleasure of playing against you in my own grind challenge on ACR recently too. Don't let the early surge go to your head, that's an insanely high bb/100 even for 2NL though.

 

[RoboGrinder]

I might have messed up by sharing my poker name, rookie move, lol. hi quick welcome to the thread, you are super right in your conclusions regarding sample size

 

[RoboGrinder]

I believe that your effort is worth a lot, I also have problem with bankroll

care to elaborate? my effort is certainly enjoyable to me, thats worth it right there. Re: bankroll, im ok with mine. Id rather it was $4987008636787.99, but its cool.

 

[Anatoliy73]

Patience and discipline, and most importantly to feel when you start your game.

 

[RoboGrinder]

got crushed last nite and nite before. ugg

 

[RoboGrinder]

lol, tough start to December, I'm on a huge downswing now, was playing 4 tables, mixing in some 6max tables. suffered some nasty beats and got tilty and donked off some stacks.

back to playing full ring games and only 2 tables for a while at least

 

[RoboGrinder]

roll is down to 17.

 

[Beanfacekilla]

Read "The Mental Game of Poker" by Jared Tendler. I would do this before you continue to play.



You mentioned tilting off stacks. Tilt is #1 bankroll killer. You can't ever be profitable if you are punting off chips in every session. Read the book. Get the mental game sorted out. The sooner the better.

 

[quick]

I might have messed up by sharing my poker name, rookie move, lol. hi quick welcome to the thread, you are super right in your conclusions regarding sample size

lol most users have usernames in profiles anyways. As for sample size def don't look into it too much until at least after 10K hands probably more.

Patience and discipline, and most importantly to feel when you start your game.

Well said.

lol, tough start to December, I'm on a huge downswing now, was playing 4 tables, mixing in some 6max tables. suffered some nasty beats and got tilty and donked off some stacks.

back to playing full ring games and only 2 tables for a while at least

Good idea to stick to full ring and to limit number of tables. And don't tilt off stacks./

roll is down to 17.

Variance makes the game fun! But seriously don't sweat it, focus, don't tilt , stick to full ring and less tables. And be very glad you didn't listen to whoever said you're crushing it other night and should move up

Read "The Mental Game of Poker" by Jared Tendler. I would do this before you continue to play.



You mentioned tilting off stacks. Tilt is #1 bankroll killer. You can't ever be profitable if you are punting off chips in every session. Read the book. Get the mental game sorted out. The sooner the better.

Is that book a good read? Never read it but heard a lot about it. Although I 100% agree that mental game absolutely must be sorted out in order to eliminate tilt as much as possible.

 

[Beanfacekilla]

lol most users have usernames in profiles anyways. As for sample size def don't look into it too much until at least after 10K hands probably more.



Well said.



Good idea to stick to full ring and to limit number of tables. And don't tilt off stacks./



Variance makes the game fun! But seriously don't sweat it, focus, don't tilt , stick to full ring and less tables. And be very glad you didn't listen to whoever said you're crushing it other night and should move up



Is that book a good read? Never read it but heard a lot about it. Although I 100% agree that mental game absolutely must be sorted out in order to eliminate tilt as much as possible.

It is a good read.

However, it depends on your objective... If you want to win at poker, and make money, you can't tilt, and that's it. It hurts our bottom line. So if you're serious about being profitable in poker, must must read this book. If it's just a hobby, and you don't care, just play, and accept the results.

 

[MrAwesme]

Good luck Robo

It's hard out there these days there are so many players that have learnt abit and apply the knowledge even at this level.. although this level is beatable.. I have a problem with discipline too and it is more like a concentration lapse.. Exercise helps with this to keep your mind and body focused good luck with the rise champ

 

[ccres]

lol, tough start to December, I'm on a huge downswing now, was playing 4 tables, mixing in some 6max tables. suffered some nasty beats and got tilty and donked off some stacks.

back to playing full ring games and only 2 tables for a while at least

Hi. Sorry to hear about the downswing, hope it turns around. Everyone is different of course, but one thing that has helped me in the past is forcing myself to do detailed reviews of sessions where I know I tilted and played poorly. I think sometimes people have a tendency to just tell themselves they know they weren't playing their A game and know what they did wrong and just write tilt sessions off. In a small way knowing that I'm going to be looking at all the hands again in detail including the ones I know I'm now making -EV decisions on kind of keeps me in check.

 

[quick]

It is a good read.

However, it depends on your objective... If you want to win at poker, and make money, you can't tilt, and that's it. It hurts our bottom line. So if you're serious about being profitable in poker, must must read this book. If it's just a hobby, and you don't care, just play, and accept the results.

Thanks, added it to my reading list/x-mas wishlist. Another book I did read (and while some might not find it super relevant to mental game or strat game is Dusty's book on treating poker like a business. I find it is actually relevant to mental game as it forces you to look at poker in a shrewd business like manner and business decisions are often best made with objective evidence and informed research to make a decision not emotional or hunch based. Also Slanksy's book on theory of poker is excellent and well worth the read for understanding rationale for taking lines and why. I really don't read a ton of poker strat books and don't really buy into the idea of training sites. There's plenty of solid info out there for free or cheap and my biggest concern with most poker books or training sites is that you're learning and applying strategy that might become obsolete. I prefer studying the basics and the math while working on mental game and BRM and then add in different strats and lines to test out rather than diving into training sites or books and then just following those lines without considering how those lines may or may not be long term +EV. Sorry I'll get off my soap box ramble about that stuff and back to my original point...I'll def be reading the Tendler book. Because mental game strategy never goes out of style and is a critical foundational piece for any lines or style of play one takes.

It's hard out there these days there are so many players that have learnt abit and apply the knowledge even at this level.. although this level is beatable.. I have a problem with discipline too and it is more like a concentration lapse.. Exercise helps with this to keep your mind and body focused good luck with the rise champ

Well said. This is solid. In terms of discipline and focus even at the penny stakes the best piece of insight I received on staying motivated at the penny tables was that "you might think the pennies are a waste of time and meaningless money, and others might too. But also what you consider high stakes, others consider penny stakes so the stakes really don't matter in terms of game improvement because while say $25/$50 NL blinds might be huge to most of us, there's whales out there who think it's boring because it's like a fraction of a percent of their net worth." And to prove this outlook, I believe Bill Gates enjoys poker but rarely plays above $1/2. For everyone who thinks penny stakes mean nothing and big stakes mean a lot, there's someone who thinks what you think are big stakes are pennies to them and someone else who just plays the game at stakes they want even if they could afford more.

And yeah the knowledge base is much higher these days at the micros...but at every stake there's always players for whom the money is no matter and for them it's just gambling and that's ok. More profits for those who study and grind up.

Hi. Sorry to hear about the downswing, hope it turns around. Everyone is different of course, but one thing that has helped me in the past is forcing myself to do detailed reviews of sessions where I know I tilted and played poorly. I think sometimes people have a tendency to just tell themselves they know they weren't playing their A game and know what they did wrong and just write tilt sessions off. In a small way knowing that I'm going to be looking at all the hands again in detail including the ones I know I'm now making -EV decisions on kind of keeps me in check.

Well said too. Knowing you have to face stats and hand histories means that you know if you call that player with your AA who never folds and who tanks 20 seconds on the rivered flush board than shoves 3x the pot, you'll be having to look at that hand history later and remembering all over again how you shouldn't have called there.

 

[NoPlace4U]

roll is down to 17.

Ive been there before, huge upswing and a devastating fall, thats why i asked how many hands do you play a day because i think you should play more and study everyday.

Read "The Mental Game of Poker" by Jared Tendler. I would do this before you continue to play.



You mentioned tilting off stacks. Tilt is #1 bankroll killer. You can't ever be profitable if you are punting off chips in every session. Read the book. Get the mental game sorted out. The sooner the better.

Its great book, will finish it next week, the mental part is as important as getting the math.

 

[RoboGrinder]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 125.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 15.96, 3Bet Preflop: 5.41, Hands: 96)
MP: 42 BB (VPIP: 69.57, PFR: 15.56, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 47)
MP+1: 124.5 BB (VPIP: 21.01, PFR: 15.51, 3Bet Preflop: 3.03, Hands: 388)
Hero (CO): 105.5 BB
BTN: 41.5 BB (VPIP: 55.56, PFR: 20.59, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
SB: 56.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 32)
BB: 44.5 BB (VPIP: 28.43, PFR: 13.86, 3Bet Preflop: 5.83, Hands: 311)
UTG: 112.5 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 34)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:club: K:heart:

UTG calls 1 BB, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, MP raises to 5.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 20 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP calls 14.5 BB

Flop: (43.5 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond: 4:heart: J:spade:
MP checks, Hero bets 10 BB, MP calls 10 BB

Turn: (63.5 BB, 2 players) 8:spade:
MP checks, Hero bets 11 BB, MP raises to 12 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 1 BB

River: (87.5 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:

MP shows 7:spade: 8:diamond: (Two Pair, Eights and Sevens)
(Pre 19%, Flop 20%, Turn 20%)
Hero shows K:club: K:heart: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 81%, Flop 80%, Turn 80%)
MP wins 83.5 BB

1 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

 

[Beanfacekilla]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 125.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 15.96, 3Bet Preflop: 5.41, Hands: 96)
MP: 42 BB (VPIP: 69.57, PFR: 15.56, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 47)
MP+1: 124.5 BB (VPIP: 21.01, PFR: 15.51, 3Bet Preflop: 3.03, Hands: 388)
Hero (CO): 105.5 BB
BTN: 41.5 BB (VPIP: 55.56, PFR: 20.59, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
SB: 56.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 32)
BB: 44.5 BB (VPIP: 28.43, PFR: 13.86, 3Bet Preflop: 5.83, Hands: 311)
UTG: 112.5 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 34)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K<font color='black'>♣</font> K<font color='red'>♥</font>

UTG calls 1 BB, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, MP raises to 5.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 20 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP calls 14.5 BB

Flop: (43.5 BB, 2 players) 6<font color='red'>♦</font> 4<font color='red'>♥</font> J<font color='black'>♠</font>
MP checks, Hero bets 10 BB, MP calls 10 BB

Turn: (63.5 BB, 2 players) 8<font color='black'>♠</font>
MP checks, Hero bets 11 BB, MP raises to 12 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 1 BB

River: (87.5 BB, 2 players) 7<font color='red'>♦</font>

MP shows 7<font color='black'>♠</font> 8<font color='red'>♦</font> (Two Pair, Eights and Sevens)
(Pre 19%, Flop 20%, Turn 20%)
Hero shows K<font color='black'>♣</font> K<font color='red'>♥</font> (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 81%, Flop 80%, Turn 80%)
MP wins 83.5 BB

1 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

Top off stack. Super glue yourself to the chair. Put dude in the cage every chance you get.

 

[RoboGrinder]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 78.5 BB (VPIP: 46.15, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 13)
Hero (UTG): 52.5 BB
CO: 20 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BTN: 14.5 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
SB: 55.5 BB (VPIP: 30.83, PFR: 15.97, 3Bet Preflop: 2.86, Hands: 126)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:spade: T:club:

Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 4 BB, BB calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 16 BB, SB raises to 55.5 BB and is all-in, fold, Hero calls 36.5 BB and is all-in

Flop: (109 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond: 4:club: T:heart:

Turn: (109 BB, 2 players) 8:club:

River: (109 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond:

Hero shows T:spade: T:club: (Full House, Tens full of Eights)
(Pre 54%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)
SB shows A:diamond: K:diamond: (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 46%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 104 BB

1 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

 

[RoboGrinder]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 40 BB (VPIP: 72.50, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 42)
Hero (SB): 125.5 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:club: K:diamond:

Hero raises to 2 BB, BB raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, BB raises to 40 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 31 BB

Flop: (80 BB, 2 players) 3:heart: 8:spade: T:heart:

Turn: (80 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:

River: (80 BB, 2 players) A:heart:

BB shows Q:spade: A:spade: (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 32%, Flop 19%, Turn 7%)
Hero shows K:club: K:diamond: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 68%, Flop 81%, Turn 93%)
BB wins 76 BB

1 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

 

[RoboGrinder]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 52.5 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
SB: 42.5 BB (VPIP: 69.84, PFR: 17.74, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 65)
BB: 46.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 4)
Hero (CO): 53 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:spade: A:club:

Hero raises to 2 BB, BTN raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, BB calls 2 BB, Hero raises to 15 BB, BTN calls 12 BB, SB calls 12 BB, BB raises to 46.5 BB and is all-in, Hero raises to 53 BB and is all-in, fold, SB calls 27.5 BB and is all-in

Flop: (150.5 BB, 3 players) 4:spade: 2:heart: K:heart:

Turn: (150.5 BB, 3 players) 2:club:

River: (150.5 BB, 3 players) 7:club:

SB shows 8:heart: 9:diamond: (One Pair, Twos)

Main Pot [142.5 BB]: (Pre 15%, Flop 7%, Turn 0%)

BB shows T:diamond: J:spade: (One Pair, Twos)

Main Pot [142.5 BB]: (Pre 13%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
Side Pot#1 [8 BB]: (Pre 16%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)

Hero shows A:spade: A:club: (Two Pair, Aces and Twos)

Main Pot [142.5 BB]: (Pre 72%, Flop 90%, Turn 100%)
Side Pot#1 [8 BB]: (Pre 84%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)

Hero wins 143 BB

2 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

 

[RoboGrinder]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 109 BB (VPIP: 31.36, PFR: 18.30, 3Bet Preflop: 9.76, Hands: 249)
Hero (SB): 32 BB
BB: 96.5 BB (VPIP: 51.35, PFR: 16.22, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 38)
UTG: 88 BB (VPIP: 19.61, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 52)
CO: 121.5 BB (VPIP: 62.50, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 3.70, Hands: 74)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:diamond: K:spade:

fold, fold, BTN raises to 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 32 BB and is all-in, BB calls 31 BB, BTN raises to 109 BB and is all-in, BB calls 64.5 BB and is all-in

Flop: (225 BB, 3 players) 5:diamond: 7:diamond: 5:heart:

Turn: (225 BB, 3 players) 4:heart:

River: (225 BB, 3 players) Q:club:

BTN shows K:club: A:heart: (One Pair, Fives)

Main Pot [96 BB]: (Pre 25%, Flop 12%, Turn 7%)
Side Pot#1 [129 BB]: (Pre 34%, Flop 16%, Turn 10%)

Hero shows K:diamond: K:spade: (Two Pair, Kings and Fives)

Main Pot [96 BB]: (Pre 57%, Flop 79%, Turn 88%)

BB shows Q:diamond: Q:spade: (Full House, Queens full of Fives)

Main Pot [96 BB]: (Pre 18%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Side Pot#1 [129 BB]: (Pre 66%, Flop 84%, Turn 90%)

BB wins 214 BB

3 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

 

[RoboGrinder]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 64.5 BB (VPIP: 48.15, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 22.22, Hands: 31)
BB: 59 BB (VPIP: 70.83, PFR: 22.54, 3Bet Preflop: 6.45, Hands: 75)
CO: 50 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (BTN): 159.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4:diamond: 4:heart:

CO calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, BB calls 1 BB, CO calls 1 BB

Flop: (6.5 BB, 3 players) 6:diamond: A:club: 3:club:
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (6.5 BB, 3 players) T:spade:
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

River: (6.5 BB, 3 players) 4:spade:
BB checks, CO bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, CO raises to 9 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

CO shows 5:heart: 7:heart: (Straight, Seven High)

CO wins 23.5 BB

 

[RoboGrinder]

these are a mix of hands from the past 2 days and today. finding some players that are playing sub par today which is nice, whether i get there money or not in the end is tbd. Ive gotten unlucky in a few key spots.

yesterday there were no easy games period. everybody was playing solid tight aggressive on every table. next time its like that im gonna just elect to do something other than poker, lol.

 

[RoboGrinder]

what do we think ideal VPiP and PFR % are in a full NL2 ring game?

 

[RoboGrinder]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 102.5 BB (VPIP: 35.29, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
UTG+1: 74 BB (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 22)
MP: 119 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 10)
MP+1: 91 BB (VPIP: 36.76, PFR: 19.12, 3Bet Preflop: 15.63, Hands: 70)
Hero (CO): 105 BB
BTN: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 17)
SB: 90 BB (VPIP: 14.63, PFR: 2.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
BB: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 26.79, PFR: 2.70, 3Bet Preflop: 2.17, Hands: 114)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:spade: J:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 4 BB, MP+1 calls 4 BB

Flop: (15.5 BB, 3 players) T:club: 9:heart: 7:heart:
BB checks, MP+1 checks, Hero bets 15 BB, BB raises to 37.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 100 BB and is all-in, BB calls 62 BB and is all-in

Turn: (214.5 BB, 2 players) A:spade:

River: (214.5 BB, 2 players) 7:spade:

Hero shows J:spade: J:diamond: (Two Pair, Jacks and Sevens)
(Pre 83%, Flop 40%, Turn 27%)
BB shows T:diamond: 7:diamond: (Full House, Sevens full of Tens)
(Pre 17%, Flop 60%, Turn 73%)
BB wins 204 BB

3 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

this was a tuff hand. I had notes on the villan that he was shoving his whole stack in earlier, really bad play. green tagged him. so when i was playing this against him i figured he very easily could be going nuts with a draw or a pair or less.

 

[RoboGrinder]

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...lhe-full-ring-flopped-qqq-356287/#post4025445

another tuff hand, i posted this one in the hand analysis, this one is serious lol tuff spot, click the link