+++ May Cash Game Thread +++

[blankoblanco]

actually i should correct myself because i didn't explain myself right. i don't necessarily think you can't profitably raise 100% in the BTN with good players in the blinds (meaning players who adjust well). it could still show a profit due to the BTN just being such a powerful position to start with, the simple math of how often you need to take it down, basically most of the theory pokerkid explained in his post

what i meant is that i don't expect opening 100% of BTNs to be the right strategy compared to opening some lesser amount. i think immediately cutting out the very bottom 10% of your hands, trash that plays horribly postflop, and opening 90% would be more profitable. and 80% would probably be better than that. so on and so forth until you reach some kind of sweet spot. but just because opening 100% from the best possible position may show a profit doesn't mean you wouldn't be better off dropping your 28o, 83o, etc.

 

[F Paulsson]

FWIW, I agree that against a lot of people, stealing is profitable with any two cards. The problem with that approach that it isn't profitable to steal with any two cards if you do it whenever you're dealt any two cards against all people. There's a sweet spot somewhere < 100% (and probably higher than 40%) for average stealing frequency, but I'm not sure where it is. I'm pretty certain it's closer to 50% than 100%, though.

So since we can't steal all the time against all opponents profitably, we have to decide to either steal all the time against certain people and somewhat less often against others. This isn't a bad starting point. I think it can be improved upon, though, and the improvement I suggest it skipping the X-rag offsuit hands (e.g. K4o, J5o, 72o, 32o) and keeping the rest in. My own line goes at 65o which is the worst connector I will open per default. I open any two suited, and 75o and up for offsuit one-gappers.

My basic idea is that since I don't want to open 100%, I might as well take the hands that make the most money when I'm called. This lets me shave off like a third or more of all hands. Something else to consider is that if I'm forced to play only one table, my stealing range very well might creep up towards 100%. I open nearly any two when I'm playing a single table of HU against a lot of opponents, for instance. The difference has to do with finding myself on the flop in a very marginal spot so often that it takes time away from focusing on more important decisions. I think shaving off a potential small fraction of a BB/100 on one table excuses that.

I feel like I left something important out of this post but I can't spot it at first glance.

 

[F Paulsson]

ffs, combu

 

[blankoblanco]

haha, we even both used the phrase "sweet spot"

no harm done, you explained it more eloquently and comprehensively than i did anyway FP. no surprises there

 

[thepokerkid123]

what i meant is that i don't expect opening 100% of BTNs to be the right strategy compared to opening some lesser amount. i think immediately cutting out the very bottom 10% of your hands, trash that plays horribly postflop, and opening 90% would be more profitable. and 80% would probably be better than that. so on and so forth until you reach some kind of sweet spot. but just because opening 100% from the best possible position may show a profit doesn't mean you wouldn't be better off dropping your 28o, 83o, etc.

Doing this is trading immediate profits for increased fold equity and having more value hands relative to bluffs in your range.
In other words, open raising 72o is profitable from the BTN so folding it loses money but folding it makes your range stronger. - Not saying if it's a good or bad idea.

I do agree that a smaller (but still very loose) range is better but for different reasons.
I just think a 100% range is completely fine, and starting with unexploitable but not very exploitive strategy is a good idea, which is why I suggested it.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

There are a ton of spots in poker where raising is profitable with any two cards if your image is tight enough. But if you do raise with every two cards, your image won't be tight enough anymore and raising will become -EV.

FP 3betting 63o from the button and showing a profit is a perfect example of this.

 

[LuckyChippy]

Yes I did mean villain FP sorry about that. Thanks for the information, alot to think about and I'm gonna put it into action right now.

Regarding opening on the BTN, I agree with blanko and FP, while 100% can be profitable, it doesn't mean it's the most profitable. Against some players it's going to create a lot of situations post-flop that are very tricky. You can avoid that by dropping the trash. Plus you tighten your range and your raises will become more effective. Also the more hands you play, the better you need to be post-flop.

 

[ComplexPlaya]

This discussion made me analyze my stats when facing a raise...and I found I'm losing -0.12 BB/h . I'm winning 1.7/hand when I 3-bet, but that just makes up 1/2 my losses folding.

Are those numbers normal for a winning player, or should i 3-bet/call more when raised? My 3-bet is 7%

This is for 36.5 K hands @ 20NLHE

 

[F Paulsson]

Facing a raise preflop, or what are we talking about? If it's preflop and you're looking at whether or not to flat, look at your positional stats, because a lot of the time that you're facing a raise, you'll have already paid 0.5bb or 1bb from the blinds.

 

[ComplexPlaya]

Facing a raise preflop, or what are we talking about? If it's preflop and you're looking at whether or not to flat, look at your positional stats, because a lot of the time that you're facing a raise, you'll have already paid 0.5bb or 1bb from the blinds.

Yes facing a raise preflop, I was wondering if -0.12/hand wasn't too high of a loss. I guess noone can be a winner in those stats just like noone can from the blinds, but -0.12 seems high to me, wanted to compare with others.

The flatting part I do wrong it seems, I'm a marginal loser there, almost 3 BI's in 36K hands. I'll try to look at some hands there see if I can find the problem...

 

[c9h13no3]

For those of you who don't visit other sections of this site: this is scary mess.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-rooms-10/cereus-network-security-warnings-ptr-175754/

 

[blankoblanco]

thread removed? link doesn't work for me

 

[cjatud2012]

His thread got merged with this one: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-rooms-10/cereus-poker-security-alerts-175753/#post1473151

 

[No Brainer]

That ones gone too, try this... https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-rooms-10/cereus-poker-security-alerts-175767/

 

[Crummy]

F May so far.... dropped $600 last night at 1/2NL live. AA got cracked by KJ of hearts, every two pair beat by a bigger two pair.. Couldn't get in the groove.

 

[LuckyChippy]

5 interesting hands (to me) I found tricky and would like to walk through how I thought about them. Hopefully some of you guys will tell me how fishy I am.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/5-hands-questions-answers-please-176014/#post1476145

 

[tenbob]

I run like a steaming pile of dog crap. That is all.....

 

[coolnout]

gz 3 straight flushes in one night. wtfz.

 

[No Brainer]

Today I am going to give 10NL a shot. I have been rolled for it for ages but have been sticking to 5NL for experience. I have been beating 5NL comfortably for the past two months and in the 200 or so hands that I've played there previously it didn't seem like there were too many differences.

I basically have 30 buy ins in my account and have no problem topping it up if need be so I have decided to give my self 10 buy ins at 10NL to see how I go.

 

[slycbnew]

gl, sure you'll do well!

 

[Crummy]

Played our weekly 1/3 deepstack game last night (min. buyin $500/Max. $1,000). I bought in for 600, had a roller coaster ride. Was up around $1,000 after a few rounds. I then dropped to 300 in one hand . I flop a flush, guy turns a boat we are all in by then..... Left with $551 when it was all said and done... Not too bad, no profit, but didn't lose the full $600..... Now I need sleep! Woke up late for work today Luckily I have a very flexible schedule!

 

[No Brainer]

Standard for moving up a level?????

 

[cAPSLOCK]

All-In EV is a cruel stat.

I have never been sure what good it actually does.

In fact I think I just thought of a new name for it.

Reverse Rabbit Hunting.

Rabbit Hunting = what COULD have happened
All in EV = what SHOULD have happened.

Both meaningless.

 

[No Brainer]

I'm not fussed about being down that much EV, I'm happy knowing that I have been getting my money in there as favorite. Just think it's funny that it seems like as soon as you move up a level the poker gods just dont have time for you anymore

 

[thepokerkid123]

Standard for moving up a level?????

No, you haven't even learned how to suckout yet.

Keep practicing.