+-+-+ June Cash Game Thread +-+-+

[WVHillbilly]

Hey WV. My current database has only 78K hands, all FR, over 3B is 3.2%, my winrate is 334BB/100.

Thanks.

Actually spoke with mpethybridge from 2+2 about this as he does lots of stats analysis sessions (well worth the $$s he charges I might add). Figured he would have as good an idea as anyone concerning my question.

He said that WR in this spot is obviously a function of how much we 3bet and that a solid WR for a FR player with a 5% 3bet is ~170BB/100. He also said to check my WR in spots where I am 3betting light by filtering out QQ+/AK and that WR should be around 60BB/100 (mine is 41BB/100).

So thanks to all who took the time to look up their stats for me. Looks like my assumption that I wasn't fairing too well in these spots was correct. Guess I have something to work on.

 

[NineLions]

Thanks WV.

I'll second the value of mpethy for stats review. Historically all of my 3 bets had been for value but most recently it was up around 8%, with a lot coming against stealers when I'm in the blinds. He pointed out that if I'm 3 betting too light against someone who steals a lot I'm seeing a flop against the top part of his range rather than ahead of his likely range if I just call.

Now I'm working on playing postflop in these situations without 3 betting quite so wide.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Thanks WV.

I'll second the value of mpethy for stats review. Historically all of my 3 bets had been for value but most recently it was up around 8%, with a lot coming against stealers when I'm in the blinds. He pointed out that if I'm 3 betting too light against someone who steals a lot I'm seeing a flop against the top part of his range rather than ahead of his likely range if I just call.

Now I'm working on playing postflop in these situations without 3 betting quite so wide.

Yeah I think my main issue is actually going to far with too little when I do 3bet light.

 

[eNTy]

Yeah I think my main issue is actually going to far with too little when I do 3bet light.

welcome to LAG town

 

[SPCotter]

First day of NL50 yesterday, swong town !!! I was one buy in away from abandoning my shot but ended the day in profit. I think I'll be turning back into a BR nit and mixing tables of NL20 and NL50 until I have around 30-35 buy ins for NL50.

Also, is this always AQ? Villain is 23/18 over 800 hands, but has a 63% steal from button, and always makes a dressed up minraise, I overpot 3bet, he flats in position, and two barrels, Q comes on the turn. Disgusting spot, I'm getting better than 2/1 on a call, thoughts? After he flats two barrels I'm not sure he's doing this with 99-JJ.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
Hero ($60.47)
BB ($24.55)
CO ($48.10)
BTN ($76.51)

Dealt to Hero K♥ K♠

fold, BTN raises to $1.12, Hero raises to $4, fold, BTN calls $2.88

FLOP ($8.50) Q♥ 3♥ 3♦

Hero bets $6.25, BTN calls $6.25

TURN ($21) Q♥ 3♥ 3♦ 4♣

Hero bets $14.25, BTN calls $14.25

RIVER ($49.50) Q♥ 3♥ 3♦ 4♣ Q♠

Hero checks, BTN bets $52.01 (AI),

 

[WVHillbilly]

How often does he fold to cbets?

He's either got a Queen, quad 3s or a missed heart draw. If you think he bluffs > 33% of the time you call.

I'd make my turn bet a bit bigger (~$18) but it's a shitty river spot either way.

 

[chowie]

River bet is effectively about 35 dollars.. 35 to win 85.. i think its a sucky spot but i would call..

 

[WVHillbilly]

River bet is effectively about 35 dollars.. 35 to win 85.. i think its a sucky spot but i would call..

Yeah, you're right. So he only has to be bluffing 30% of the time to make the call.

 

[SPCotter]

Yeah I tank for an age, call just as the timer is about to run out, villain shows AQ of clubs obv. I was just running through my mind he must have AQ here, think the price just tempted me to make the call, and then sighed, as he did indeed turn over, AQ!

Hillbilly do you mind explaining why you would make it more on the turn? Betting 3/4 pot leaves 58 in the pot with me having 31 behind on the river. Betting 2/3 leaves 50 in the pot with 35 behind on the river. Personally I think betting a little less might be the difference to keep a hand like TT, JJ, AQ or AhXh in to the river without really overly affecting my chances of extracting any extra value from such a hand on the final street, especially as I am out of position, sure the final Queen fell, but I feel I'm happy with my line to the river?

 

[WVHillbilly]

Yeah I tank for an age, call just as the timer is about to run out, villain shows AQ of clubs obv. I was just running through my mind he must have AQ here, think the price just tempted me to make the call, and then sighed, as he did indeed turn over, AQ!

Hillbilly do you mind explaining why you would make it more on the turn? Betting 3/4 pot leaves 58 in the pot with me having 31 behind on the river. Betting 2/3 leaves 50 in the pot with 35 behind on the river. Personally I think betting a little less might be the difference to keep a hand like TT, JJ, AQ or AhXh in to the river without really overly affecting my chances of extracting any extra value from such a hand on the final street, especially as I am out of position, sure the final Queen fell, but I feel I'm happy with my line to the river?

Honestly when I said that I was thinking you had ~$50 behind as well for the river bet, so I wanted to bet a bit more to make the river shove even more tempting for him to call.

Also those times where he has a heart draw we get a few $$ more out of the turn bet (assuming he'll call both with roughly the same frequency) when a blank falls and he puts no more in on the river.

 

[Pokertron3000]

Just donking around in micro cash some guy calls an all in to chase a flush (standard I had KK he limped called re-raise the called all-in needing a heart with A2) of course he hits it then dissapeared, luckily he was playing the mininum needed so he didnt get a full stack of me then left :O. Does this happen much at stars? I followed him to another table but he ran away again lol.

Meh hoping to start cash if I get rakeback, I have won a free months drag the bar member ship so seems like a good time to start, any advice for a cash game noob?

 

[WVHillbilly]

Just donking around in micro cash some guy calls an all in to chase a flush (standard I had KK he limped called re-raise the called all-in needing a heart with A2) of course he hits it then dissapeared, luckily he was playing the mininum needed so he didnt get a full stack of me then left :O. Does this happen much at stars? I followed him to another table but he ran away again lol.

Meh hoping to start cash if I get rakeback, I have won a free months drag the bar member ship so seems like a good time to start, any advice for a cash game noob?

Best advice would be not to chase the hit-and-run short stackers.

Also if he got his A2 in on the flop with a FD,an over, and $$s already in the pot, did he really make a mistake?

 

[Pokertron3000]

Best advice would be not to chase the hit-and-run short stackers.

Also if he got his A2 in on the flop with a FD,an over, and $$s already in the pot, did he really make a mistake?

Er hehe both very good points WV, I guess the transition from sngs to the cash games will take some time considering he was a short stack was an easy call to make for the rst of his chips, I am used to the conserve chips style play of sngs and trying not to get in behind unless I am shoving pre and getting called.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Well then my best advice for your transition is to not pass on small edges as long as you're rolled for the level you're playing. Getting in as a slight favorite or even as a dog with enough dead money in the pot is the right play and will show profit over time.

Oh yeah and don't open limp.

 

[absoluthamm]

Well then my best advice for your transition is to not pass on small edges as long as you're rolled for the level you're playing. Getting in as a slight favorite or even as a dog with enough dead money in the pot is the right play and will show profit over time.

Oh yeah and don't open limp.

Could quite possibly be the best advice for cash games, especially micros, because you can get rid of a lot of crap, but still build a big pot from the idiots who play ATC when you have a good flop and they connected their bottom pair or whatever. If you open limp, you're going to have 8 people in the pot behind you and it's over...

 

[Pokertron3000]

Thanks for the advice been playing a couple of tables for a few hours is fun after the grind of sngs. I have a 300$ roll right now but when I start cash proper if I have to stay on stars I will start from the bottom to learn, hopefully I will be on FT where I have 45 or odd $ which I can treat as a first deposit type of thing, I have a fair bit of free time so hopefully can get some hands in and see what happens next month.

 

[Tygran]

Anybody ever experienced a bug at full tilt where your cursor looks something like a sideways I beam and you can't click on anything at all?

It's happened twice this week to me and I just folded the nuts and lost a reasonably sized pot thanks to it....

It was a PLO rush table but that probably doesn't matter

 

[WVHillbilly]

Anybody ever experienced a bug at full tilt where your cursor looks something like a sideways I beam and you can't click on anything at all?

It's happened twice this week to me and I just folded the nuts and lost a reasonably sized pot thanks to it....

It was a PLO rush table but that probably doesn't matter

I have never seen that but I would email FTP with the hand number and what happened. A lot of times they'll refund your portion of the pot as a good will gesture.

 

[Tygran]

I have never seen that but I would email FTP with the hand number and what happened. A lot of times they'll refund your portion of the pot as a good will gesture.

Hmm yeah that's a good idea, I'll try that..worst they can do is say no lol.

 

[absoluthamm]

Sounds like it could easily be that your computer hardware can't handle rush tables and the system froze up a little. The rush games take a lot more processing power that regular tables because you're switching tables constantly. Especially if you're playing more than one rush table at a time.

 

[Tygran]

Sounds like it could easily be that your computer hardware can't handle rush tables and the system froze up a little. The rush games take a lot more processing power that regular tables because you're switching tables constantly. Especially if you're playing more than one rush table at a time.

I can pretty much guaruntee it isn't my hardware...

Old enough comp maybe but mine isn't... 99.9% sure it was a software glitch

 

[Pokertron3000]

Ok I have rakeback yay! but am a bit does fulltilt only run 1/2c tables with 2$ max buy in?

 

[LuckyChippy]

Not sure what the question is but yes the max buy-in at 2nl on FT is $2 except for deep tables ($4). If you meant you cant see other limits then look at the top right and mess around with the buy-in levels.

 

[Pokertron3000]

Not sure what the question is but yes the max buy-in at 2nl on FT is $2 except for deep tables ($4). If you meant you cant see other limits then look at the top right and mess around with the buy-in levels.

Ty thats what I meant Stars has 5$ buy in for 1/2c so jw already feel happier playing cash hand by hand and now I have alot to learn but I am happy playing poker this way and willing to learn its great not stuck to a sng game plan

 

[Skaplun]

for some reason no1 is posting any graphs for the month.. so I'll just run with it.
Since my return to poker I have been doing well, not extravagent but well.. the never ending realization that I suck is what keeps me grounded and working:

This is about 13bbs\100. (pretty good I think.) enjoying the ride and hopefully moving up to 20NL in a week.