Good tournament player, but SUCK at cash games.

[Marginal]

Ok egon, so we are playing deep stack. Who is going to do better, the person playing for 10bb every day or the person who plays cash games for 100bb min?

Again, not helping your arguement.

And lets talk about pressure because everyone is playing under spectator pressure in online tourneys right

 

[Poker Orifice]

In the 'longrun' to do well as a tournament player you have to be decent (how long is the 'longrun'?.. who knows, lol).
'but'
Tournaments can be won by really bad players (we can see all kinds of evidence of this online.. ie. yesterday's SunStorm hu playing for $157k, both were real bad). Newer players w/o alot of knowledge can bink a big win (how about that donk who took down SunMill awhile back & lost it all in 5days?)... last night's SunMill, 3-way chop, one player had avg. sng buyin 0.90 (yah.. 90cents!) & less than 100mtt's, avg. bi <$4. Their 3rd biggest cash ever was actually the $10 turbo 100seats satty to the SunMill (earlier in day on same day (yesterday) that they binked 2nd in 3-way chop).
So.... part of what I'm sayin' I guess is > anyone can bink a tourney (even a shyt player can do well at times in tournaments). Doubt a shyt player will ever do well in cash tables for any length of time at all!! It's just not gonna happen.

There are quite a few good tournament players (decent-good.. or at least pretty regularly getting good/decent results) who are actually pretty piss-poor postflop deepstacked players. This is pretty common knowledge. Doubt a cashgame player would do well if they're piss-poor at playing deepstacked postflop poker.

 

[imwatcher]

To dj... I did just move to donkaments because they are so easy lol.

 

[Poker Orifice]

.

And lets talk about pressure because everyone is playing under spectator pressure in online tourneys right

Of course they are.... just not on bodog

 

[Marginal]

Lol you win this thread btw.

 

[PotluckXXI]

Tournement is harder

It's two different games but tournament is harder.
1) Tournament means you buy in and play till eliminated
2) You are often forced into coin flip situations before flop risking your whole stack.
3) You have to play until you are eliminated or win

It's not that you can't make money playing tourneys or that the play is better it's just that you are forced to play with a limited amount of money and the blinds increase (excluding rebuy events, even then you have to take into account your expected return on investment).

Cash games are a different story, at a table you don't find good ev, leave. You can rebuy if you get short but you think you have +ev. You can wait for good hands and play the player vs. coin flips. You can choose your opponents by watching the table before hand. You don't see as many all-in pushes pre-flop.

Both games require different stratigies, cash games require constant evaulation of limited opponents. Tournaments require adjusting to new players and changing conditions over a single stretch.

 

[imwatcher]

Sigh, tourneys are easier potluck because the competition is worse and the concepts are simpler.

 

[taaron]

It's two different games but tournament is harder.
1) Tournament means you buy in and play till eliminated
2) You are often forced into coin flip situations before flop risking your whole stack.
3) You have to play until you are eliminated or win

It's not that you can't make money playing tourneys or that the play is better it's just that you are forced to play with a limited amount of money and the blinds increase (excluding rebuy events, even then you have to take into account your expected return on investment).

Cash games are a different story, at a table you don't find good ev, leave. You can rebuy if you get short but you think you have +ev. You can wait for good hands and play the player vs. coin flips. You can choose your opponents by watching the table before hand. You don't see as many all-in pushes pre-flop.

Both games require different stratigies, cash games require constant evaulation of limited opponents. Tournaments require adjusting to new players and changing conditions over a single stretch.

This is horrible logic; no offense but think about what you are saying. a flip involves NO skill!

think of it if you will in terms of ICM; (and dollar value per mtt chip);
playing against new villains and the same villains everyday with cash is so much harder, your thinking about aspects of the game not about how to be a winning player. And how to dominate villains, w/e but your post makes no sense. and any logical honest person will read your post as proof of tourneys being way easier to bink.

 

[PotluckXXI]

Imwatcher to say the competition is worse in tournaments is like saying red is better than blue. Playing micro limit cash games and micro tournaments attracts the same bad players. I agree with what you are saying but you must admit that there are good players there also and you will be going head to head with them in the late stages.

Taaron yes a flip involves no skill, I'll take AA vs QJ every day but I have no need to risk my whole stack in a cash game. I am not saying you can donk to the final table in a tourney. I am saying that when I make 200% of my buy-in in a cash game I can leave, same if I'm down. In tourney you are forced to play for EVERYTHING every time.

If you look at my SNG and Tournament stats (which I cannot post since I don't currently have a HU) then I'm a winning player because I have finished in the money enough to make up for all my buy-ins (but you are talking only like ten or twelve events).

Cash is easier because each hand I am involved with is not "life and death". Every fold in tournament is costly due to the increasing blind structure. You can play a short stack in a cash game and wait for the best spots, in tournament you are forced to play marginal cards when your M drops to untenable levels. We are still talking about small stakes games, higher stakes cash games do become much tougher.

Once again I am not talking about the play skills as much as the difficulty of winning money for any given player with no particular skill in either.

 

[imwatcher]

Only read the first line but its nothing like that, its liek saying 2nl is softer than 100nl.

 

[PotluckXXI]

Well, I must admit I'm looking at it from a certain perspective. I'll put it this way, in a tournament I want to win by finishing 1st, in a cash game I want to quit with a profit whether it's 20% of my buy in or 200%. Now in that context can you agree that tournament is harder?

 

[imwatcher]

Of course but the aim of playing tourneys and cash games is the same, to profit.

 

[Marginal]

No because it is bad logic.

 

[Marginal]

Potluck, the point is, that if you have no idea of what you are doing, you are more likely to make a profit playing a tourney as opposed to a cash game.

 

[PotluckXXI]

Hmm...err...Ok, I guess you can donk a tourny and finish in the money. I still hold that cash is easier (we are talking micro limits) just as many bad players. If you have no idea what you are doing then you will be out at first table in MTT or one of first players in SNG, same goes for cash game, if you have no idea what you are doing. The point is that you can decide when you are over your head in cash game while tourny you are stuck. I would assume that you have some idea what you are doing in either.

Are you saying that tournys require no skill? isn't that counter-intuitive to which game is easier? Don't you WANT to play a player with no skill in a cash game? Don't you hate the player with no skill in tournaments? In a cash game he donks you and you are now armed with valuable information against him, in a tournament he donks you and cripples you.

 

[Marginal]

Pot luck, I have no idea what you are saying anymore.

 

[Kanivision]

this is a very good topic, i understand what u mean, i seem to be a very good tourney player, but when i hit the tables i lose track of my game, i have better bank roll managemnt in tourneys for some reason, any advice how i can help correct that problem, i would really appreciate it

 

[PotluckXXI]

BTW I make no claim at being perfect, my assumptions and opinions are my own, right or wrong. I welcome critique of my logic from anyone here especially guys like marginal and taaron. I seek to expand my knowledge, I may not agree with you but I will listen and defend my argument until I am forced to face the overwhelming logic of yours.

 

[PotluckXXI]

Marginal I am saying cash is easier because of the options I have vs the options I am granted in a tournament. How many cash games do you have to go all-in on pre-flop? Even when you do you can re-buy IF you feel that you still have an edge. Tournaments require difficult decisions on almost every hand you play in order to stay alive.

 

[PotluckXXI]

Kanivision, it all depends on the limits you are playing, micro is pretty straight forward play. Move up limits and the play gets trickier. When you play a cash game don't feel the need to shove with marginal hands (TPTK or 2 pair) when your villain is playing tight and raising. You have TIME to observe your opponents, mostly betting patterns online. You don't need to commit yourself, still play aggressive but tighten up.

 

[imwatcher]

Dude just from experience tourneys are so much softer, not only are 2$ tourneys higher than 2nl (to grind 2$ tourneys you would want more than 20 bi even though that is fine for 2nl) but there are also ALOT more bad players in the 2$ tourneys than 2nl... ofc both are beatable but because the general player pool in tourneys is worse it is an easier game

 

[brank]

Darvin Moon

/thread

 

[dj11]

DJ do you win at tournaments?

With no delusions about become a poker pro....yes. Total lifetime deposits are around $150---Total withdrawals are about $1250.00. Have had endless fun, and have current br's at 3 sites, which for a US player is probably pretty good.

My temperament and style are tourney based, and try as I may, I can not get the gist of the ring game, which has always been 2 steps forward, 3 steps back. If I never sat at a ring table, that total withdrawal # would be 5x what it is.

Then add in the excitement , nay, sheer rush of getting deep in a big ROI game and that is something you ring dudes don't get...

 

[dj11]

I'm not saying either is harder or better than the other, I do reject anyone saying say that about either ring poker or tourney poker. It's like driving to Vegas in a Porsche vs driving to Vegas in a old pickup truck.....

The goal is Vegas...... not the drive........ ldo...

 

[Jurn8]

Marginal I am saying cash is easier because of the options I have vs the options I am granted in a tournament. How many cash games do you have to go all-in on pre-flop? Even when you do you can re-buy IF you feel that you still have an edge. Tournaments require difficult decisions on almost every hand you play in order to stay alive.

decisions are really hard with 10BB yeah