Ok so I have looked online and seen very little in the way of useful tips for beating micro stakes zoom poker on stars. I have played since it first game out and I'm averaging around 6k hands a day on it. I play 4 tables of 5nl and 2 tables of 2nl. 6 tables is the max you can play now because PS lowered the amount, I guess this was due to people being extreme nits... not sure however.

Anyway use this topic to discuss all things zoom as I'm sure there are a lot of strategys that will crush zoom as it is a really new thing to stars and Rush sucked.

Useful things I do to ensure I make a profit almost every single session I play. (I don't use a hud for zoom yet, only for regular poker) There are exceptions to these rules if you have info on your opponent.

1. Fold KK preflop to a 5 bet/don't call all in preflop with KK because you are up against AA almost EVERY TIME.
I don't care what anybody says to me because after playing thousands and thousands of hands at zoom, I have noticed that people almost never shove without AA or KK so you are a flip at best.
Exception to this rule is if you have notes or the villain is short stacked or you are in the blinds. Blind on blind play tends to be looser.

2. Do not over play bottom set/22 33 sets.
Now this is a complicated point and it by no means suggests you should fold your bottom set at all, but what it does mean is you should be wary of someone with massive aggression on the flop because they more often than not have a higher set. Just imagine you are in a live casino playing a cash game, and there is a bloke across from you literally spilling his food and drink because he can't get the chips into the middle fast enough. Is someone really going to be 4/5 bet shoving you on the flop with anything less than a set? I think not... I no I wouldn't.

The way you should play your 22 33 sets is by calling an EP/middle open raise and hoping to stack them if an A or K falls on the flop (and you hit your set) because they hit their TPTK. This spot is fine for a stack off. However if you all LIMP in pre flop, then your tiny bottom set is very often up against a higher set. You should not limp 22/33 but CALL open raises with them. This ensures that you will almost always be in a favourable spot with your tiny set.

3. 3bet in late position like there is no tomorrow.

By 3betting a wide range of hands you will so often make people fold their AK or w/e oop and take down a small pot. All these pots add up and really help your winrate. The reason this works, is because with the vast amount of hands people are seeing per hour, they really have no desire to call out of position with mediocre hands. They will fold out lots of strong hands that they would not normally fold in a Ring Game.
If you do get flatted, then it is even more profitable when you take it away on the flop by cbetting. (ensure proper board texture) Give up on the turn if called unless you improve.

4. Raise blind steals with a wide range of hands.
A lot of recreational players think they are being smart arses raising every single button that they have to steal the blinds because they think no one will notice because of the zoom format. By raising their steals you will take down a large amount of pots where the villain has absolute garbage and cannot possibly call profitably. If they do call, then take the pot away on the flop as it is likely that have missed. Again, give up on the turn if called because they obviously have strong holdings to make the flop call. If they are floating, then well played them... however you don't run into these players often.

5. Isolate single limpers if you are in the button or cutoff as much as you can with a wide range.
This is a strategy that I'm sure you will all know from your standard ring game experience, but in zoom, you will find it is even more profitable as people are constantly limping to try and make sets, and when they miss they lay down the hand. Micro Zoom poker is all about making sets and punishing people stupid enough to get attached to their high pocket pairs. So this being said, it is inevitable that you will find people limping with a lot more frequency than in a standard ring game, but more importantly, they don't get attached to their hand due to boredom, like in standard micro stakes games, because the next hand is right around the corner. So by isolating these limper's while in position, you can take away a lot of pots on the flop when they fold their low pp's that haven't set mined successfully.

6. DO NOT BLUFF
Seriously, beyond the C bet on the flop, just don't do it. People are unlikely to fold on the turn, what they liked on the flop and double barreling gets very expensive when people keep calling you down. Sometimes you can get away with a double barrel if an A or K falls on the turn as players will be scared of this, but apart from that, don't bother. There is a lot of easy money to be made at zoom, and it doesn't come from bluffing.

7. Be very wary if raised post flop.
As with your standard ring games, you want to be very wary if raised post flop, especially if you have a hand that you like the look of but is simply a mere pair. This means that if you have AK on an A or K board and some one raises the flop it means more often than not, you are going to be facing a large turn bet as well. It is up to you to judge to size of the flop raise and whether or not they are likely to fire the turn as well, which in most cases signals a stronger hand than TPTK or an overpair which is what you will be holding.
The reason you should be more wary of raises at zoom, is because people bluff less and value more. They don't have to worry about a tight image as the table is new each time, so they are going to show up with a hand that beats TPTK or an over pair a lot more than they would if it was a standard ring game. (For the record, Russians and Germans tend to be really aggressive, so if you can't decide whether to call the flop raise, check to see if one of these nationalitys is there :P ) However don't get carried away as they get good hands too. A standard rule for whether to call a flop raise or not is to check if it is more than a min raise. You can call a min raise, but should probably fold to a larger raise. Fold to a large turn bet if you called a flop minraise as they will often have better than a pair when firing the turn as well. If they check, then you will often have the best hand.

8. Playing Small and Medium Pocket Pairs.
You should be looking to set mine as much as possible with these hands and be ready to throw them away on the flop unimproved. Certain paired boards warrant a call, but mostly get rid of them if you don't hit.

EP. Open 77+ for a 3x raise. If you miss your set you can C bet in a HU pot and try and take it down. (Ensure propper board texture)
Limp 44-66 and then call a medium sized raise from players to act behind you. Your limps will get raised often (which is good because when you do hit your set, you get paid off more)
There is no need to open 6's and below because people will always raise your limp.

MP. Open raise 44+ and call reasonable sized opens from in front of you with any PP. You can open all pocket pairs from here because it is less likely that you will be 3bet. You also open all pairs from here to help build a pot.


Finally just bare in mind that this is for 2nl 5nl and 10nl ONLY. I have no experience at the higher stakes so really cannot comment on that. These tips are only what I have learnt from playing lots of zoom hands, and although you may disagree, remember that this is just an opinion and I am by no means forcing anyone to play like this
While this strategy is very weak tight, I would like to add that I have had only great results using this play. It DOES win, and with decent win rates as well. Yes you might be folding the best hand occasionally, but believe when I say how good it feels to walk away from almost ever session with considerably more money than when I started. Sometimes you will have a god awful run if cards and it will drive you insane, but these tips ensure that your session will be filled with extremely easy decisions throughout, and you won't find your self in marginal spots hitting the desk with you head for calling when you shouldn't or for having a cooler.

Thanks for reading.

Thanks for reading.

Well, thanks for writing.....just wrote a post myself.....pretty useless I think.
Think you covered it pretty much, so...thanks for this again.....

No problem. I guess not many people play zoom as a lot are Americans here.

OMG I hate to say it buddy but you're going to get slated.

Just a few points:

If we're folding sets to aggression but playing sets to try and stack AK/AQ etc, how do we know them shipping the flop isnt just them playing AK aggressively. FWIW i'm NEVER folding a set on the flop, i'm getting it in and being very happy with it. TBH it sounds a bit like you're being results orientated.

Also I don't like 4bet folding. Yes, it's probably AA a good % of the time, if you have to fold to a 5bet its probably just better to flat the 3bet and play against a wider range on the flop. i.e. 4bet KK less.
Also if people ONLY 5bet AA you should be 4betting wide because you know people will rarely 5bet if it's only one hand they do it with (according to your theory).

I appreciated you've played a fair few hands but once you reach ~50k hand maybe you can start posting some of your data (assuming you track hands) and we can see how profitable KK is against 5bets and how often getting bottom set in on the flop is bad.

Nice article anyway, should start some discussion.

Nice post, ive just started playing zoom so needed a little guidance rather than wait to find it all out myself.

I dont know if I will carry on playing it though tbh, kinda annoying having to fold overpairs and 1 pair hands every time I get raised, like I get KK, open 4x, flops Q48, i cbet, villain calls, turns a blank, i bet again, villains shoves over the top, I dunno if im running a little bad but it just seems like we're almost never ahead there.

Zoom is more rigged than rush?Since i'm U.S i can not prove this but sounds like it.

i tried playing some decent volume, i even did a blog, but because it is such ABC poker it gets boring really quick, i will stick to my MTT's and the joys of metagame think

having said that, zoom is superb if you just have 20 minutes spare

I don't mind the zoom tables, I have played 4 and have yet to go negative ROI.
I'm not tracking my games but I have played so little that I know I still have a positive ROI.
Session 1: $2 buy-in, left table with $17
Session 2: $2 buy-in, left table with $12
Session 3: $2 buy-in, brought up to $5, left table with $0
Session 4: $2 buy-in, brought it up to $9, left table with $7

Not bad IMO, but I do know that I won't be able to stay running this good

Originally Posted by JOEBOB69

Zoom is more rigged than rush?Since i'm U.S i can not prove this but sounds like it.

i firmly believe that was rigged too. the number of time AA, KK lost to a flopped set was unbeliveable.

gave up on FTP after having a hand with 3 to the flop and 2 people flopping sets and the third flopping a straight. and then the river paired the board giving 2 full houses.

saying that i saw a hand on zoom the other day with AA vs KK vs QQ and the board had an ace, king and a queen on it.

any thoughts on ratholing? (considering its allowed at present). (or should i learn to fold my aces after being shoved on post flop, removing the need of being worried about my stack. pre flop kings vs a shove and post flop aces vs a shove are my biggest leak - i just cant fold them).

also multitabling, considering the action is quick and the amount of time is reduced.? (I read somewhere of someone 6 tabling zoom! - im sticking to 2 at the mo after accidently folding queens and missing i had trips when 3 tabling)

Originally Posted by dazzammm

i firmly believe that was rigged too. the number of time AA, KK lost to a flopped set was unbeliveable.

gave up on FTP after having a hand with 3 to the flop and 2 people flopping sets and the third flopping a straight. and then the river paired the board giving 2 full houses.

saying that i saw a hand on zoom the other day with AA vs KK vs QQ and the board had an ace, king and a queen on it.

Confirmed, rigged

has anyone noticed how the play differs at different times?
(i seem to lose loads at the weekend and then make it up during the week. i think the play is a bit looser at the weekend and i pay them off when they hit their gutshot. really got to learn to fold to shoves - it usually only means one thing )

AK = mediocre?

really?

I mean, really?

If this plays like Rush did, I would open 22+ for 3bb from any position, and respect early raisers (don't 3bet them to often), Use a HUD (every one else is) and 4 bet only BIG hands or vs frequent 3bet stealers. Otherwise I like your startegy. As a US player, I am currently confined to live play but I was beating $50nl rush - 3 tabling for 3.5 ptbb/100 (~70k hands at that level) when FT was around.

Lol claims of online poker being rigged... it's just not true.

I used to open 22+ from any position but I find it just isn't actually profitable. Acording to poker tracker low pocket pairs do more harm than good.

As much as it's great people making posts like this, I had to give up reading after your first two points because these are absolutely horrible advice, sorry.

Never, ever fold kings even in zoom. You say "everytime you're flip at best" I mean, I'm unsure as wtf you're doing but there is not true at all. I've played 10000's of zoom poker and you're so far from the truth it's unreal, espically for micros. If you're seriously folding kings to 5bets or shoves or whatever pre flop then you're losing money, simple as that. Next thing you will be saying fold aces to 6bets.

I've seen people shove SO wide any two, any pair much much worse than in a 6max normal table on stars so folding is AWFUL advice. Don't do this!

Folding sets even at zoom is even more of a stupid thing to do, even bottom set. Like I say, I'm unsure as to what is going on with you but people shove top pair on flops, any draws and so on....

I can't read no more..really I can't.

I'm unsure as if this post is meant to be a joke..or something I really can't work out what you're saying like seriously.


At the end of the day general, as good as post in terms of contents but the actually input is not good advice and if you're folding Kings pre at micros along with bottom sets then the fact of the matter is that you're losing money long term, FACT.

bit harsh ramdeebam. but i have been surprised what ive seen turned over after ive called a shove with kings. more often that not its NOT aces but someone not knowing what to do after being 3bet. its usually AK or a big - middle pair so youre between 65-80% fav.
if it was 5bet (as mentioned in the advice) it would depend on stack sizes.

now, a shove post flop, I find, is always a big hand and rarely a bluff.

Originally Posted by dazzammm

bit harsh ramdeebam. but i have been surprised what ive seen turned over after ive called a shove with kings. more often that not its NOT aces but someone not knowing what to do after being 3bet. its usually AK or a big - middle pair so youre between 65-80% fav.
if it was 5bet (as mentioned in the advice) it would depend on stack sizes.

now, a shove post flop, I find, is always a big hand and rarely a bluff.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I think it's great when people put together an article like this but in my opinion, it's misleading.

I don't think in ANY cash game it's ever a good idea to fold kings to any sort of 4bets/5bets pre at the micros. I can guarantee that your kings are good more times than not in these spots over the long term it's only profitable to get kings all in at ANY stakes regardless and sure you run in to aces at times, it just happens but I'd never be 3betting/4betting then folding to a shove.

OP. Don't have any zoom experience so was interested in your post. Your logic seems strong over all.

This one statement got me thinking though:
"There is no need to open 6's and below because people will always raise your limp"
Won't a thinking opponent put you on a small pocket pair when you do this and pot control or fold when you flop the set, thus eliminating your implied odds.
If you are happy to call a raise anyways, why not open it yourself? Are you worried about the 3 bet being too large?

Originally Posted by beanstalk

OP. Don't have any zoom experience so was interested in your post. Your logic seems strong over all.

This one statement got me thinking though:
"There is no need to open 6's and below because people will always raise your limp"
Won't a thinking opponent put you on a small pocket pair when you do this and pot control or fold when you flop the set, thus eliminating your implied odds.
If you are happy to call a raise anyways, why not open it yourself? Are you worried about the 3 bet being too large?

Ill address this post and then get onto ramdeebam's.

Yes exactly regarding 6's and below. If you open them there is a reasonable chance you will be 3bet by someone with position on you and it gets really expensive calling all these raises. If you limp, an opponent will only really raise you up 4x the limp maybe 5 and then you have the odds to call. If you open 6's and get 3bet really large, which a lot of people do because they want to deny you set mining odds, you have to fold. So limping the small and mediums ensures you see as many flops as possible thus you will hit more sets.
It is true that a thinking opponent will put you on a set some of the time here, but at micro zoom, there are not too many of these players and the amounts of sets you hit by limp calling will far outweigh the pots you don't get value from by thinking opponents.

Ramdeebam, I understand why you might not appreciate my advice. I have seen you post in other topics and you seem a knowledgeable guy and I respect your views even if they constantly come across as a bit upfront, they are usually of good content. I don't want to spend too much time explaining my reasoning to you for the simple fact that you didn't read the whole article. I would urge you to go back and do so, and then see if you feel any different. I don't want this to serve as a conflict between us, but I would like to convince you that I am not a total waste of space. So here goes:

I will make a couple of key points. I state very clearly that it is just my experience with zoom and it DOES make me money. I state that it is just a thought process and people are perfectly entitled to ignore my advice, I also wanted to prompt a discussion about zoom so others could get involved and I am perfectly open to improvements on my game. There is no better way to generate discussion than to right an article about your own experiences.

What is also key, which you didnt spot because you failed to read the whole article, is that I dont advocate folding bottom set at all. I suggest that you should proceed with care. If the pot has been limped into multi way by several opponents, and then some guy just cant wait to get his money in, the chances are.... your tiny set is beat. If however you call an open raise for 3 or 4x, and the dude decides he wants to stack off on the flop then you are definitely calling that, because he is much more likely to have a high pair because of the open raise from EP or MP.

Another point is that I stated that I only played 2 and 5nl zoom, and that I have played about 10k hands of 10nl as well as watching my brother play 10nl all day long. I cant make this point more strongly, that after getting kings in preflop on a 5nl or 10nl zoom table, I was almost ALWAYS up against AA and sometimes KK. I got KK in preflop for a long stretch of hands before I came to the conclusion that it wasnt profitable to do so. Better to play KK Against a wider 3bet range and make your money with KK against JJ and QQ that way instead. I at no point said this applies to the stakes YOU are playing 25nl and above. In fact I categorically state that I do NOT play 25 zoom and you not listen to my advice when playing those stakes.

I will also like to post my graph for the last 2 weeks of zoom. I have been slacking a bit because I have been trying to learn STT's at the same time. This graph is only a tiny sample of my hands played on zoom. A lot of my hands were played without pokertracker because I have been staying with my mum for a few weeks prior to this, but when I got home I started using pokertracker again and this is what happened. I can assure you my profit is much larger if you count in the other hands of zoom I have been playing.

The graph is small and I can't seem to make it bigger, but the stats are
BB/100 4.00
15.5k hands.
$72profit.

what happened in the first 1800 hands? it is possible to copy the hand history from one computer to another to keep PT in line.

The play is pretty poor at the micro stakes - just had a guy call a 4x raise preflop, he called a 3/4 pot bet on flop and turn on a 2,4,5 board and then shoved when the gutshot 3 hit on the river.
Now ive seen your graph Im going to re-read your original post.
whats your username and ill stay away ;o).

one last thing, the original post used the term "w/e oop". what w/e mean?

NGTheGenera1 is my PS name, now that you've read my strategy you can take me down more easily haha. I'm guessing I was just card dead for the first 2k hands.

w/e = what ever. So I'm saying "AK or what ever out of position."

Gl at zoom.

I really can't be arsed to copy the hands over and I hardly ever see my mum, but thanks for the suggestion.

Originally Posted by TheGenera1

Lol claims of online poker being rigged... it's just not true.

I used to open 22+ from any position but I find it just isn't actually profitable. Acording to poker tracker low pocket pairs do more harm than good.

I agree that 22 and other small pp's are sometimes a fold pre especially from EP but do you really have a large enough sample to back up some of these claims you're making. If you've played less than 100k hands maybe even 200k then id say not. pocket pairs are super profitable, some advice just seems too nitty, like folding bottom set, there are times for it yeah but its 2 or 5nl and people are just gonna pay you off with all sorts.

It's good what you're doing and all and i can appreciate that. But there is a lot of fundamentally meh stuff in there too.

Folding KK at 2 and 5 zoom when you get 4bet or whatever is just burning money. Maybe you've only played a small amount of hands and think you're always running into AA or something but KK+ is in good shape against any range really. People always remember the times they run into AA but are fast to forget the times things went as they wanted.

I dont like limping with pocket pairs either, especially if you're gonna do it in later positions where you can steal the blinds, take the pot down with a c-bet or still hit a set and stack people a lot easier than if you limp and hit a set.

Again, not being a dick or anything, i think it's good that you're making this kind of guide for people just starting zoom or whatever.

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Originally Posted by TheGenera1

1. Fold KK preflop to a 5 bet/don't call all in preflop with KK because you are up against AA almost EVERY TIME.
I don't care what anybody says to me because after playing thousands and thousands of hands at zoom, I have noticed that people almost never shove without AA or KK so you are a flip at best.
Exception to this rule is if you have notes or the villain is short stacked or you are in the blinds. Blind on blind play tends to be looser.


EP. Open 77+ for a 3x raise. If you miss your set you can C bet in a HU pot and try and take it down. (Ensure propper board texture)
Limp 44-66 and then call a medium sized raise from players to act behind you. Your limps will get raised often (which is good because when you do hit your set, you get paid off more)
There is no need to open 6's and below because people will always raise your limp.

MP. Open raise 44+ and call reasonable sized opens from in front of you with any PP. You can open all pocket pairs from here because it is less likely that you will be 3bet. You also open all pairs from here to help build a pot.


Thanks for reading.

Originally Posted by acky100

I agree that 22 and other small pp's are sometimes a fold pre especially from EP but do you really have a large enough sample to back up some of these claims you're making. If you've played less than 100k hands maybe even 200k then id say not. pocket pairs are super profitable, some advice just seems too nitty, like folding bottom set, there are times for it yeah but its 2 or 5nl and people are just gonna pay you off with all sorts.

It's good what you're doing and all and i can appreciate that. But there is a lot of fundamentally meh stuff in there too.

Folding KK at 2 and 5 zoom when you get 4bet or whatever is just burning money. Maybe you've only played a small amount of hands and think you're always running into AA or something but KK+ is in good shape against any range really. People always remember the times they run into AA but are fast to forget the times things went as they wanted.

I dont like limping with pocket pairs either, especially if you're gonna do it in later positions where you can steal the blinds, take the pot down with a c-bet or still hit a set and stack people a lot easier than if you limp and hit a set.

Again, not being a dick or anything, i think it's good that you're making this kind of guide for people just starting zoom or whatever.

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Some fair points. I say in my op that you should be raising pocket pairs from MP and later. It's just from ep I limp the mediums. Do you think I should open the mediums as well for a 3x from ep, is that what you mean?

Also I never fold KK to a 4bet because that really would be silly :P but I can fold to a 5bet sometimes especially because I'll be oop and it's going to be shove and pray. Do you think I should just be 6bet shoving with the KK?
Maybe I'm just being an idiot and I should get KK in what ever, but It's just I found that I was running out of a bankroll with this strategy. I had 50 buy ins for 5nl when I started and I was fast approaching broke. Maybe I was unlucky to see AA so many times?
I know you guys are proven cash game winners but do you actually play Zoom for a large sample of hands? If you dont mind me asking when was the last time you played the micros akky cos I know you're a successful gold star player which you cant really get from grinding micros

I thought limping when you are the one opening in Zoom/Rush was always a bad idea?

Folding KK to a 5bet is probs even worse than folding it to a 4bet, you're probably getting close to good odds to call even if he only has AA, which he doesnt (for the most most most part)

op can you clarify what you mean by "(ensure proper board texture)" when talking about c-bet. I think i know what i mean but just want to make sure

I think this article will explain it in better detail than I ever could

https://www.cardschat.com/continuati...ting-poker.php

ta. Just had a stint on the 2nl table. definatley easy to make money. I was 3 tabling and up on all...... until jokerstars gives me a flopped set vs a flopped straight.

When you feel comfortable I would suggest opening up the maximum amount of tables which is 6. It means playing 2 tables of one limit and 4 of another limit. Because it is only 6 tables you are able to stay fully focused, but because it's zoom you will see a lot more hands per hour so you can easily forget about the cooler hands.

Also don't fast fold I find it to be bad practise, and if you stack your tables you can occidentally fold the wrong hand which sucks.

can you post the HH for the set v straight hand?

I've only played 2nl and less than 10k hands, so I can't speak to higher levels plus my observations are based on a small sample and thus still preliminary. With this caveat, my results have been pretty positive, around 10 big bets per 100.

It seems to me that limping small and mid-pairs as well as other speculative hands from EP is often better than raising. One reason is that only a minority of players at this level know enough to raise limpers consistently. And even they have many hands they'll auto-fold.

Another reason is that one limp tends to lead to more, which means more people who may pay you off if you hit the flop. Or if someone does raise, there's more dead money in the pot.

Effective stacks are another factor. For example, let's say you open to .06 and someone makes it .20. If you use an implied odds guideline of 20x or even 15x in order to call, most opponents' stacks won't be large enough. Otoh, if you limp and get raised, the chances of having enough implied odds to call are quite a bit higher.

Originally Posted by KHANGURA175

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/runninggoodatnl10zoom.png/

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Zoom is so easy wow.. My strategy is way too sick..
Started NL2 with $100 lioke 6 weeks ago and now im at NL25 just crushing everyone..

Even coolered nanonoko on my last session of NL10 lol

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/cooleringnanonokoatnl10.png/

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Lastest NL25 session:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/nl25zoom.png/

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Maybe im just running good but those pics r 3 diff session of pure crushing and ive only had like 5 losing days out of about 30ish so far..

I'll c what happens in the near future n let u fools know.
If i still continue to crush I'll go ahead n post my strategy in detail cuz im a nice guy.

Hey OP. What are your opinions on zoom and its difference to regular poker? Do you think the easy ability to fold gives players a strong incentive to simply nit up? It is better to be more tight in zoom than normal? Or should hand ranges remain the same as a reg game depending on the number of players on the table?

While people tend to disagree with me, I find that nitting it up is the correct strategy for beating the micro stakes zoom. People tend to only put serious money in the pot with monster hands, so it is always good to try and have 1 better. I am constantly thinking what hands beat me, and how likely it is that they have them when I'm getting in big pots. Folded bottom set 2 times yesterday, and twice I got to see my opponents hole cards. Both times they had higher sets. I just check to see if they are a fishy looking person. If they are a reg, I really have to ask my self, what would they be shoving me all in with here? an over pair in a limped pot? Don't think so... I would never fold a full house though, cos that really is nitty :P just bottom sets. When the board pairs you get trips and shiz calling you down.

A big rule that I follow is that: if some one is repping a strong hand, they will usually have it.
Having said that, you can abuse everyone playing really tight as well. Because the next hand is right around the corner, people are much more willing to fold the flop if they don't hit it very hard. You can raise people pre flop and bet flop and people fold a lot more than they do in regular poker I find. Don't go mad with this though :P

In regards to hand ranges, tight is right, and so is playing in position. Fold to 3bets oop a large amount of the time.

Originally Posted by TheGenera1

While people tend to disagree with me, I find that nitting it up is the correct strategy for beating the micro stakes zoom. People tend to only put serious money in the pot with monster hands, so it is always good to try and have 1 better. I am constantly thinking what hands beat me, and how likely it is that they have them when I'm getting in big pots. Folded bottom set 2 times yesterday, and twice I got to see my opponents hole cards. Both times they had higher sets. I just check to see if they are a fishy looking person. If they are a reg, I really have to ask my self, what would they be shoving me all in with here? an over pair in a limped pot? Don't think so... I would never fold a full house though, cos that really is nitty :P just bottom sets. When the board pairs you get trips and shiz calling you down.

A big rule that I follow is that: if some one is repping a strong hand, they will usually have it.
Having said that, you can abuse everyone playing really tight as well. Because the next hand is right around the corner, people are much more willing to fold the flop if they don't hit it very hard. You can raise people pre flop and bet flop and people fold a lot more than they do in regular poker I find. Don't go mad with this though :P

In regards to hand ranges, tight is right, and so is playing in position. Fold to 3bets oop a large amount of the time.

I'd stop limpin small PP. I raise all PP from all positions, folding small-med to 3bets.

Yeah, you want odds to flat raise to setmine but problem is when you don't get raised and it goes to flop theres some major problems here:
1. Pot is so small its hard to get money in with ur set by river
2. Your against a range thats infinitely large from BB
3. You can't take down blinds preflop

Example vs BB: u limp 55 in HJ, fishy in CO limps as well, BB checks.
Flop : 532
On this flop, you have the nuts right? Top set FTW!..Nah, BB has 46, fishy wouldve called ur pre raise n BB wouldve folded 46 n now your done..
BB is getting the best deal here, hes not putting anything in and can go buck if he hits super hard or just fold..

Example vs limped fishy: Same pre situation
Flop : K52
You have the nuts..
Assume fishy actually has a K.
Pot is nothing, even if you pot all streets:
1. Still not much by river
2. Fishy might fold on river now since ur betting pot
3. By river, if board runs outshtty, fishy is more likely to fold because he doesnt have as much money to win in middle.. If fishy has invested a decent amount by river, he will probably still call a mini bet with his K



But hey, its just advice man, you can do whatever THE **** you wana dooo

Yeah man I totally agree with you. I usually raise my pocket pairs, but from ep I find that limping them does the job because you get raised so often.

Originally Posted by TheGenera1

Yeah man I totally agree with you. I usually raise my pocket pairs, but from ep I find that limping them does the job because you get raised so often.

Open limping pp's in early position is pretty bad these days. Surely you can get away with it to some degree but raising first in is clearly better.

Originally Posted by TheBowlBoy

Open limping pp's in early position is pretty bad these days. Surely you can get away with it to some degree but raising first in is clearly better.

Hey, I didn't know you were a member here. You and I have sat at a table together on Stars a number of times back when I used to play more.

Originally Posted by NineLions

Hey, I didn't know you were a member here. You and I have sat at a table together on Stars a number of times back when I used to play more.

Cool. I just started posting here after 2p2 went down.

ive retired from poker. ive had enough. today, poker stars decided i was going to lose no matter what. Ive had flopped straights and sets and lost to runner runner hands, had dominating hands pre and lost to flopped 2 pair and sets, cant win a coin flip, last hand i called an all in with jacks vs A7 and lost to a straight.

Today I played KK-99, AK, AQ, KQ and AJ 20 times and won 4 times. I lost every time i had AK and was ahead preflop every time.
I won 8% of all the hands i played.
looked at my expect all-in ev - my actual loss is 200% lower than expected.

I HAVE HAD IT WITH ONLINE POKER.

Check your inbox.. we will see you through this

Originally Posted by dazzammm

ive retired from poker. ive had enough. today, poker stars decided i was going to lose no matter what. Ive had flopped straights and sets and lost to runner runner hands, had dominating hands pre and lost to flopped 2 pair and sets, cant win a coin flip, last hand i called an all in with jacks vs A7 and lost to a straight.

Today I played KK-99, AK, AQ, KQ and AJ 20 times and won 4 times. I lost every time i had AK and was ahead preflop every time.
I won 8% of all the hands i played.
looked at my expect all-in ev - my actual loss is 200% lower than expected.

I HAVE HAD IT WITH ONLINE POKER.

I like to think of downswings as a test.
Poker is testing your mentality (it tests every player btw not just u)

Will you rage/whine/cry and lose more or quit?
Or will you keep your head up and know that your going to make it ahead in the long run NO MATTER WHAT...

You failed the test btw.


I just went through the INEVITABLE downswing myself, didn't really fade me at all, brushed it off like its nothing.. N ive only lost like 3 buyins in 5000 hands because of that
I like to say "nice hand" out loud not in chat when he hits his flush draw when all in on flop or if he hits the 2outer when im all in wit AA pre etc

Maybe the reason you are not tilted is because you have only lost 3 buyins lol. See what happens when you are down to 8 or even 10. If you are still able to remain calm then I will have to hand it to you. I had to take a break after a massive shitty run. took me 2 weeks to get over it.

Well what I meant to say was that when on a downswing/tilt you should keep your composure n this will make you lose less.
Ex. I couldve been down 4 bi but I was only down 3bi, etc



Also, as much as I've liked to post on these other poker forums, it appears my main forum, twoplustwo, is back.

I will not be posting here anymore.

If anyone wants advice on anything micro zoom 6max, you can message "Khangura175" on 2+2 and I will gladly hel[p you.

Peace.

Is zoom actually a game people can profit from without running really good? Ive played about 5000 hands and have only managed to eek out a marginal profit of about $1 in zoom although I did run into a ton of set over sets and one KK vs AA which put a pretty decent dent in my profits. I cant seem to every really play a big pot on zoom since nearly everyone folds to the least bit of resistance and never stack off unless they have top set or so. And this is 2nl so I fear what the action is like at higher levels.

Im playing on zoom since it allows me to rack up VPPs to clear my deposit bonus but it seems in terms of ability to make a profit without bonus whoring, reg cash tables is the way to go.

Hey Genera1. Could you please discuss the general ranges zoom players tend to play and how they are similar or different from reg cash.

I've been playing a decent amount and just cant seem to get a read on the general level of play. Some players are willing to call down with TPWK like A7 on an Ace high flop, smooth call an MP raise with junk like 62s, or check-raise with a pp that loses to possible high cards on the flop. On the other hand, I also run into players who seem to always have sets when calling a cbet and never reraise or lead with top set. Players also tend to be tighter in general, folding to nearly all cbets.

The difference from regular to zoom is quite substantial in my opinion. As you have no reads in zoom you have to play a 1size fits all strategy, and that means missing value against maniacs but also saving money against nits.

Ill try and catch you on skype tomorrow. To make profit, you have to play really nitty. And that means folding KK to an all in shove. I hate to say it, but having AA versus KK is where a large amount of my profit comes from, and saving money by not stacking with KK my self. It is obviously a lot more complicated than that, but in essence the key to beating it is to sit around and wait for absolute monsters and a caller. I made 10 sets in my last session, 3 of them I had to fold 2 of them I lost the minimum to flushes and straights and the other 4 that were good I got no callers. However I got a stack off verses someone and won a buy in. That 1 caller gave me a 2.50 boost to the session.

The fact that lots of players fold to your cbet is a good thing. It allows you to win lots and lots of small pots which keep you afloat until you win a big one.

Ill give you an example of how I would play AK

Preflop open 3x
Hit flop? 2/3pot flop, 1/2pot turn 1/2pot river. If you get raised at any point you need to fold.
Miss flop? Bet flop, check/fold turn and river unless improved.
You could consider a double barrel if a high card falls on the turn eg an K or Q but otherwise give up on the pot.

Another thing that is going to get me disliked is suggesting that you fold bottom set to EXTREME aggression. You really have to ask your self, how has the hand played out? Was the pot raised or limped into. If raised, maybe he has an overpair. How aggressively is he betting?
If the pot is limped and he shoves you on the flop, does he really have a 1 or 2 pair hand? no.. he has a set or better 90% of the time. Just picture the game live, is the guy knocking his drink to get the chips in?

The best way to play bottom set is to get value when he either checks turn or river. If he checks either of them, he is weak and wanted to see a cheap showdown so bet. If he bets bets bets then what does he have? Just gotta put your self in your opponents shoes, what would YOU be betting with so strongly?

Graph from May 5th playing only 2nl zoom.
3.57 BB/100
25k hands played.
So it is beatable as you can see.

I never seem to be able to get any action unless villain has the absolute nuts. Every flush draw with TP I go all in against, villain calls with a set. The only big pot I won was a bad beat where I stacked off TPTK against AA and hit trips. I can build up to $3 profit but all it takes is a good set to destroy my profits. How do you guys get any action with good hands?