N
NoOneYouKnow
Rock Star
Silver Level
Hello all
I thought I would introduce myself in this, a thread I hope to contribute plenty to in 2012. I have been away from poker for a year thanks to study and wedding commitments, and had withdrawn my entire roll. I will be starting a roll from basically nothing and rolling up (hopefully) through the PLO micros.
My favourite games are definitely any form of mixed poker, although a lot of my experience is at NLHE and PLO.
Let's hope 2012 brings yummy EV and suckouts a plenty.
I thought I would introduce myself in this, a thread I hope to contribute plenty to in 2012. I have been away from poker for a year thanks to study and wedding commitments, and had withdrawn my entire roll. I will be starting a roll from basically nothing and rolling up (hopefully) through the PLO micros.
My favourite games are definitely any form of mixed poker, although a lot of my experience is at NLHE and PLO.
Let's hope 2012 brings yummy EV and suckouts a plenty.
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
I didn't realize it was HU. I don't see how you can do anything but get it in there.
P
PotluckXXI
Visionary
Silver Level
Perhaps I do not know what a showdown value hand is I always thought of it as a thin value hand, could you explain or direct me to a definition with examples? My play may be nitty but I see too many hands go to showdown in micro, also even if I do raise with AAxx pre 3 or 4x BB I will have at least two callers and if I'm IP I will have at least 2 limpers that will call. I would change my tactics in a higher level game but at the limits I play at now I don't get fancy.
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
Perhaps you should give examples of what you're talking about because you have a post talking about AAxx losing to 77 on A77 and QJ being no good on JJQ boards and these situations aren't even worth talking about.
If people call too much then value bet wider (wider than say, the stone-cold nuts). If people fold too much then bluff more (including hands that might win if you check for showdown value but will win more often when you bluff).
If people call too much then value bet wider (wider than say, the stone-cold nuts). If people fold too much then bluff more (including hands that might win if you check for showdown value but will win more often when you bluff).
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
Marg (or anyone else for that matter) have you seen joey's prop bet thread on 2p2..... talk about swongs!
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5...ernova-elite-2-5-months-plo-prop-bet-1111353/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5...ernova-elite-2-5-months-plo-prop-bet-1111353/
jbbb
Legend
Silver Level
Good thread, just reading it now.
He says "I have been trying to overlimp in position in some spots with hands that I would normally fold in hopes to help with VPP and win money at the tables". As PS rake is by hands dealt surely it doesn't matter if he sees a flop, he's going to get the same VPP's anyway?
Also that video he posted in OP is ridiculous. Why the **** is he shouting? lol
He says "I have been trying to overlimp in position in some spots with hands that I would normally fold in hopes to help with VPP and win money at the tables". As PS rake is by hands dealt surely it doesn't matter if he sees a flop, he's going to get the same VPP's anyway?
Also that video he posted in OP is ridiculous. Why the **** is he shouting? lol
jbbb
Legend
Silver Level
Why?
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
The inference is if your vpip is higher then you will be playing more multi way pots which adds to vpp rates. So the more pots he plays with someone else then obv he will add to the rake. If its a mega nitty table and he and everyone else is folding then his and the other players vpp/hand will dramatically reduce.
Also PS is on the verge of announcing its moving away from dealt to weighted contributed which is causing major consternation on the SNE thread on 2p2.
Also PS is on the verge of announcing its moving away from dealt to weighted contributed which is causing major consternation on the SNE thread on 2p2.
jbbb
Legend
Silver Level
Ah ok, cheers
As for the 2nd point i've been reading the 2+2 SNE thread and there is much detest for this. I don't think Stars would be too stupid though, they won't just make it worse for their regular high stakes customers.
jbbb
Legend
Silver Level
Standard line check here. Anything you would change?
pokerstars Pot-Limit Omaha, €0.05 BB (3 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (BB) (€6.13)
Button (€5.46)
SB (€5)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q:spade:, A:diamond:, 7:heart:, J:heart:
Button calls €0.05, 1 fold, Hero checks
Flop: (€0.12) A:heart:, 8:heart:, Q:club: (2 players)
Hero bets €0.12, Button raises to €0.24, Hero raises to €0.70, Button raises to €2.22, Hero raises to €6.08 (All-In), Button calls €3.19 (All-In)
Turn: (€10.94) 5:diamond: (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: (€10.94) 4:spade: (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: €10.94 | Rake: €0.54
Guy is a loose passive, can probably put him on a set (most likey 88, or a two pair combo)
pokerstars Pot-Limit Omaha, €0.05 BB (3 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (BB) (€6.13)
Button (€5.46)
SB (€5)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q:spade:, A:diamond:, 7:heart:, J:heart:
Button calls €0.05, 1 fold, Hero checks
Flop: (€0.12) A:heart:, 8:heart:, Q:club: (2 players)
Hero bets €0.12, Button raises to €0.24, Hero raises to €0.70, Button raises to €2.22, Hero raises to €6.08 (All-In), Button calls €3.19 (All-In)
Turn: (€10.94) 5:diamond: (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: (€10.94) 4:spade: (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: €10.94 | Rake: €0.54
Guy is a loose passive, can probably put him on a set (most likey 88, or a two pair combo)
jbbb
Legend
Silver Level
|????% |??0 |????% |??|0 |????% |??|0Predictions for equities please? No cheating - see how close you can get.
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
I probably check it pre, depending on how often I felt he's folding flop. As played obviously get it in and crack his bottom set.
P
PotluckXXI
Visionary
Silver Level
Reply to baubid1
Sorry baudib1
Well the first part goes back to a thread I did on full houses in PLO, it was more about me getting my a** kicked with second nut hands. Having the AA on an A77 board is the "nut" full house but was vulnerable to the 4 of a kind and the second one was the second nut FH. These hands are so strong it's hard not to get it all in on the river. I guess them not being worth talking about is that they are so strong that not to ship it seems stupid.
I'm not really sure what you mean by give examples?
Is the second part an explanation of a showdown value hand?
Sorry baudib1
Well the first part goes back to a thread I did on full houses in PLO, it was more about me getting my a** kicked with second nut hands. Having the AA on an A77 board is the "nut" full house but was vulnerable to the 4 of a kind and the second one was the second nut FH. These hands are so strong it's hard not to get it all in on the river. I guess them not being worth talking about is that they are so strong that not to ship it seems stupid.
I'm not really sure what you mean by give examples?
Is the second part an explanation of a showdown value hand?
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
I don't even know what you're asking. I showed some examples where you should turn SDV hands into bluffs. those same board hands on different runouts can simply be bet for thin value. Despite the fact that you see big hands occurring more in PLO it does not mean your goal should be to play to avoid coolers.
P
PotluckXXI
Visionary
Silver Level
Oh my bad, went back and read earlier post here (thought you were talking about an old thread I did on FH's in PLO).
Paired boards are absolute death to any hand if it doesn't help it (IE over set to pair, trips with pair and top full pair (QJ with JJQXX with x<J) otherwise they are SDV full houses. Even top set hands are vulnerable AA on A77XX board seems awesome but lose to pocket 7's way more in Omaha, not that you can ever lay this hand down.
Basically what I was saying is that paired boards don't have good thin value with a bare pair (say pocket A's on a paired board with no A). I am thinking of a showdown value FH something like 5789 on a 75TQ7 board with pressure being applied by villain. It's worth a call, but what if he's pushing pot sized bet on river with action on earlier streets?
And the AA on A77 board was not thin value or showdown value just examples of awesome hands that sometimes lose but you will always shove with.
What is the definition of "Showdown Value"? you talk about SDV hands turned into bluffs then call them thin value hands on different runouts, so I'm still unclear what a SDV hand is.
Perhaps I may seem too nitty but I have lost countless times with these type of hands in your examples, getting called. I don't see getting called by a set vs my two pair a cooler.
Paired boards are absolute death to any hand if it doesn't help it (IE over set to pair, trips with pair and top full pair (QJ with JJQXX with x<J) otherwise they are SDV full houses. Even top set hands are vulnerable AA on A77XX board seems awesome but lose to pocket 7's way more in Omaha, not that you can ever lay this hand down.
Basically what I was saying is that paired boards don't have good thin value with a bare pair (say pocket A's on a paired board with no A). I am thinking of a showdown value FH something like 5789 on a 75TQ7 board with pressure being applied by villain. It's worth a call, but what if he's pushing pot sized bet on river with action on earlier streets?
And the AA on A77 board was not thin value or showdown value just examples of awesome hands that sometimes lose but you will always shove with.
What is the definition of "Showdown Value"? you talk about SDV hands turned into bluffs then call them thin value hands on different runouts, so I'm still unclear what a SDV hand is.
Perhaps I may seem too nitty but I have lost countless times with these type of hands in your examples, getting called. I don't see getting called by a set vs my two pair a cooler.
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
Guess what, as long as you play poker you are going to lose money in hands that you could have won or saved by playing another way.
everyone who played PLO loses huge pots to absurd coolers. the definition of a cooler depends on opponent really but focusing on coolers is pointless. instead focus on the pots that are winnable because you're playing a ridiculous nit and the value to be had by betting your non-nut hands vs. stations. if you can't figure out when ranges are strong or weak or when people will fold or call, pay more attention, stop playing out of position and learn how to hand-read.
everyone who played PLO loses huge pots to absurd coolers. the definition of a cooler depends on opponent really but focusing on coolers is pointless. instead focus on the pots that are winnable because you're playing a ridiculous nit and the value to be had by betting your non-nut hands vs. stations. if you can't figure out when ranges are strong or weak or when people will fold or call, pay more attention, stop playing out of position and learn how to hand-read.
jbbb
Legend
Silver Level
Pretty good guess - at the time I thought I was getting my money in good. Didn't realise a shitty top pair with a shitty flush draw was ahead by so much in a three way pot. I was surprised he had 56% equity, wtf! In heinsight it's kinda obvious, I only really have 9 outs so ~36% equity (which is actually what I had).
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
I like to get to the turn with that hand (actually I would probably fold preflop unless Otb in a limped pot) to save money the times when it turns a club or an Ace and shovel all the money in if the turn is a spade.
of course you cant always control that and getting it in 36% is getting it in good 3 ways.
of course you cant always control that and getting it in 36% is getting it in good 3 ways.
M
Marginal
Junior Member
Silver Level
Confirmed saving run good for next year.
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.50(BB) poker stars
SB ($50)
BB ($19.70)
Hero ($192)
CO ($50)
BTN ($65.45)
Dealt to Hero A:heart: A:diamond: 8:club: 7:diamond:
Hero raises to $1.75, fold, BTN raises to $4, fold, BB calls $3.50, Hero raises to $16.25, BTN calls $12.25, BB calls $12.25
FLOP ($49) 7:heart: 5:spade: 3:diamond:
BB bets $3.45 (AI), Hero raises to $57.35, BTN calls $49.20 (AI)
TURN ($150) 7:heart: 5:spade: 3:diamond: 2:heart:
RIVER ($150) 7:heart: 5:spade: 3:diamond: 2:heart: J:heart:
BB shows K:club: T:diamond: Q:diamond: 6:diamond:
(Pre 25%, Flop 5.4%, Turn 0.0%)
Hero shows A:heart: A:diamond: 8:club: 7:diamond:
(Pre 43%, Flop 65.2%, Turn 66.7%)
BTN shows A:club: 9:club: 9:heart: 8:heart:
(Pre 32%, Flop 29.4%, Turn 33.3%)
BTN wins $148
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.50(BB) poker stars
SB ($50)
BB ($19.70)
Hero ($192)
CO ($50)
BTN ($65.45)
Dealt to Hero A:heart: A:diamond: 8:club: 7:diamond:
Hero raises to $1.75, fold, BTN raises to $4, fold, BB calls $3.50, Hero raises to $16.25, BTN calls $12.25, BB calls $12.25
FLOP ($49) 7:heart: 5:spade: 3:diamond:
BB bets $3.45 (AI), Hero raises to $57.35, BTN calls $49.20 (AI)
TURN ($150) 7:heart: 5:spade: 3:diamond: 2:heart:
RIVER ($150) 7:heart: 5:spade: 3:diamond: 2:heart: J:heart:
BB shows K:club: T:diamond: Q:diamond: 6:diamond:
(Pre 25%, Flop 5.4%, Turn 0.0%)
Hero shows A:heart: A:diamond: 8:club: 7:diamond:
(Pre 43%, Flop 65.2%, Turn 66.7%)
BTN shows A:club: 9:club: 9:heart: 8:heart:
(Pre 32%, Flop 29.4%, Turn 33.3%)
BTN wins $148
M
Marginal
Junior Member
Silver Level
Guys, Just let everyone know Ill go through the posts in this thread tonight or tomorrow morning, Just not getting time to get time these last few days.
I am really happy with the way this thread is going and I will respond to your posts pretty soon.
I am really happy with the way this thread is going and I will respond to your posts pretty soon.