Are Online Poker games totally random?

#1 September 27th, 2020, 8:23 AM

Because in my understanding and my little experience, they favor the one with the most advantage at the table, the last card almost always coming out to complete the one with the most chips, I have seen that happen more than 80% of times.

#2 September 27th, 2020, 9:06 AM

I always say online poker is a simple roulette game...

#3 September 27th, 2020, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by anadrijav

Because in my understanding and my little experience, they favor the one with the most advantage at the table, the last card almost always coming out to complete the one with the most chips, I have seen that happen more than 80% of times.

Random number generation by computer programming is a simulation of randomness. It is the best that can be done with present technology but is still an approximation (at best).

However, many would concur with your observation of the big stack winning a high percentage of the time. It has been my position the algorithm can then whittle down the field on pace as other rolling tournaments are scheduled. I have argued many times you could set a clock with MTTs as to when players would cash and reach a final table they all play so similarly (especially those you play day in and out and can observe closely).

That for better or worse comes with the online territory.

#4 September 27th, 2020, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by anadrijav

Because in my understanding and my little experience, they favor the one with the most advantage at the table, the last card almost always coming out to complete the one with the most chips, I have seen that happen more than 80% of times.

In fact, poker rooms check. Because the cards fall out completely randomly. There is no deception. Players prefer to ignore the period when they are lucky. But when it starts to fail, they think that this is a terrible deception, and so on.

#5 September 27th, 2020, 11:22 AM

I think it�s as random as it could be. I don�t think it favours any players

#6 September 27th, 2020, 11:49 AM

I think it cannot be affirmed or denied. What remains is to play your best poker, if you do well, keep playing!
Greetings

#7 September 27th, 2020, 3:15 PM

I don't think this is the case, it is random, the player who has many chips most of the time will call and not always with good cards and more on a bounty and often win, that can influence that perception. I always have to see how players with few chips fold many times because those who have go with garbage hands or not so good, so I do not agree with your point of view Are Online Poker games totally random?

#8 September 27th, 2020, 3:26 PM

The cards fall the same for everyone,,,can't get any more fair than that. Are Online Poker games totally random?

#9 September 27th, 2020, 3:57 PM

I think you are wrong. Of course, there are different cases, but I am convinced that the skill and experience of the player are crucial in the long run.

#10 September 27th, 2020, 4:12 PM

I agree with your assumption but not with your hypothesis. I feel that there is an algorithm that prevents certain players from winning too much. I feel it is based on the money that you have deposited to that particular poker site. It is based on pay to play so until you have deposited a base amount you are subject to the algorithm.

#11 September 27th, 2020, 4:23 PM

I don't think it's true that the multi-chip player always wins. But I've had a lot of bad luck when it comes down to river for the opponent, or I'm a lot better off at the beginning or in the middle of the party and then I lose.

#12 September 27th, 2020, 5:57 PM

i think its random and no one is favourite

#13 September 27th, 2020, 6:57 PM

It is difficult to say that there is a systematic way to favor certain players.
But we will always have that impression. I've seen players go a long way in playing irresponsibly. It bothers me, but we can't escape it.
It is important to be patient and find favorable moments.

#14 September 27th, 2020, 7:08 PM

This question could be asked in a different way: Are poker sites rigged?

There are many opinions out there, but when you listen to enough top level pros that don't have an affiliation to a site (so they're not being paid to promote the site and there fore have a vested interest in it) and the general consensus is that the RNG's are not rigged. You will find bots on all sites. You will find players that are colluding on all sites. On some of the shadier sites, you might find super user accounts where the player can see everyone elses cards, but the RNG's are legitimate.

#15 September 27th, 2020, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by DS3

It has been my position the algorithm can then whittle down the field on pace as other rolling tournaments are scheduled.

Why?

fwiw, most players don't just play 1 or 2 tournaments and wait for them to finish so they can enter another.

You do realize that tournaments will play out (in the longrun) based on blind structure, stack depth & number of entrants.... right?
ie. Hypers go very fast... AND over the long run they will run approx. the same length of time. Guess what... same for LIVE TOURNEYS too... (especially ones that have shortened time to act, clock etc.). This is how they schedule tournaments, KNOWING approx. (very close to it actually) how long they'll last.

I'm curious, what is YOUR experience where you're 'seeing these things happen'?
Because you must have a very keen eye.... I mean with your experience you're able to see this stuff(?) & yet guys who have played 40,000, 100,000.... 250,000 tournaments aren't seeing it at all. (yes.. there are players who play that many tournaments)

#16 September 27th, 2020, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by anadrijav

Because in my understanding and my little experience, they favor the one with the most advantage at the table, the last card almost always coming out to complete the one with the most chips, I have seen that happen more than 80% of times.

Well in my much greater experience (I'm 'assuming'... as I have a bit more than 'little'), I am certain they don't favor ANYONE at the table. Personally I think that is the most RIDICULOUS thing .... I mean do you think professionaly would be investing (yes.. 'investing') over $100k in a day while playing Tournaments if there was any kind of b.s. like 'bigger stacks are favored'.

I promise I won't post in any more threads like this. It's nonsense (BUT... it is common for newer players)

#17 September 27th, 2020, 11:03 PM

As the most simple point of logic regarding big stacks winning hands with a higher frequency... if it were not the case then the smaller stacks would constantly win hands and chip up would they not? The field would endlessly rebalance.

From my observations this is more likely in the live game. As a consequence live MTTs appear to play out over various time frames (regardless of escalating blinds) whereas online tourneys are routine in duration.

manzanillo53 makes another point regarding players who have or have not deposited with frequency. I have some similar theories about players loosely streamed to facilitate scheduling efficiencies for the sites - again, so that tourney 'complete' on schedule.

Now regarding some who say losing players will exhibit such bias, I do not follow manzanillo53 but have seen him finish well in tournaments and I get the impression they know how to play and can play well - they also seem chilled in their comments.

I feel a kinship to a degree because I am by definition profitable (I play low levels and generate bankrolls through FRs) and therefore have only ever made limited deposits. I have a skeptical view of several aspects of online poker but am relaxed and even detached from it because it simply is what it is. I feel (right or wrong) the system is weighted but with patience you can navigate the system and profit. There is a frustration that I do not win/profit with the regularity I believe I should - but I grasp that could be a sense of entitlement or the algorithm, or both, I just attempt to be philosophical about it all.

#18 September 28th, 2020, 2:06 AM

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Why?

fwiw, most players don't just play 1 or 2 tournaments and wait for them to finish so they can enter another.

You do realize that tournaments will play out (in the longrun) based on blind structure, stack depth & number of entrants.... right?
ie. Hypers go very fast... AND over the long run they will run approx. the same length of time. Guess what... same for LIVE TOURNEYS too... (especially ones that have shortened time to act, clock etc.). This is how they schedule tournaments, KNOWING approx. (very close to it actually) how long they'll last.

I'm curious, what is YOUR experience where you're 'seeing these things happen'?
Because you must have a very keen eye.... I mean with your experience you're able to see this stuff(?) & yet guys who have played 40,000, 100,000.... 250,000 tournaments aren't seeing it at all. (yes.. there are players who play that many tournaments)

Poker Orifice - I know we agree on some issues but not on this. You are welcome to your opinion and I'll retain mine. I am not bothered if anyone subscribes to it or not, I am not trying to convince anyone but am just expressing my view. And, as I constantly underline I am philosophical even phlegmatic about it all.

I find the culture surrounding poker a little odd. It strikes as evangelical, of born again fervor - we must believe (in the poker sites) as an act of faith. But at least 40 poker sites have gone under, several blatantly screwing over their customers, with the likes of Full Tilt bilking players for hundreds of millions. So, I will retain a healthy skepticism as long as I play online.

#19 September 28th, 2020, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by anadrijav

Because in my understanding and my little experience, they favor the one with the most advantage at the table, the last card almost always coming out to complete the one with the most chips, I have seen that happen more than 80% of times.

Hi!
Despite don't believe the random number generators favor one or another at the table, people who play live and online say that in live the cards are more randomly. I, particularly, think the ace come more frequently than the other cards at PS and the luck factor online is more present at online poker tables in general. Are Online Poker games totally random?

#20 September 28th, 2020, 6:53 PM

Hi!

This is exactly as you say. It is not best to go all in against a chip leader because he will win in a large percentage of cases. I have seen and experienced this many, many times. I don't understand the point of this. But to whom could this be addressed? Would it make sense to say that? Are Online Poker games totally random?

They would also say that this is not the case.

#21 September 29th, 2020, 2:25 AM

Originally Posted by anadrijav

I have seen that happen more than 80% of times.

No you have not seen this happen more than 80% of the time, or at least not over any kind of meaningfull sample. What happen is, that humans tend to remember bad things more than good things, and the worst thing, that happen to us during a poker tournament, is to get eliminated. Per definition we can only get eliminated by someone with a larger stack, and therefore it can seem to us, that the large stack always gets lucky.

The next step in the process is confirmation bias. When you have already gotten it into your head, that the games must be rigged, you will start to look for confirmation of your idea. You will therefore begin to notice hands, you are not even involved in, and see every single hand, where the biggest stack win, as evidence, that your conspiracy theory is right. Whereas if the short stack win as in this hand from a recent final table, I played, you dont even notice it.

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/624HlrEqV

#22 September 29th, 2020, 2:35 AM

I think that poker rooms implement technology to be as random as possible but sometimes you have question the randomness.

#23 September 30th, 2020, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by DS3

Poker Orifice - I know we agree on some issues but not on this. You are welcome to your opinion and I'll retain mine. I am not bothered if anyone subscribes to it or not, I am not trying to convince anyone but am just expressing my view. And, as I constantly underline I am philosophical even phlegmatic about it all.

I find the culture surrounding poker a little odd. It strikes as evangelical, of born again fervor - we must believe (in the poker sites) as an act of faith. But at least 40 poker sites have gone under, several blatantly screwing over their customers, with the likes of Full Tilt bilking players for hundreds of millions. So, I will retain a healthy skepticism as long as I play online.

This ecclesiastical synopsis seems more like the blind leading the blind. These poker clients are running a business and in the best interest of any money making establishment, is not to screw over their members. If someone doesn't trust the site, then it would be foolish to support them.

With every hand documented and many have ran programs to find anomalies, there has only been a couple who have found deviation. That wouldn't be the reason for "at least 40 poker sites" failures in a competitive market. Always a little odd that those who feel skepticism are the ones who have no problem with a cult like attitude, enjoying the online games.

#24 October 1st, 2020, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Well in my much greater experience (I'm 'assuming'... as I have a bit more than 'little'), I am certain they don't favor ANYONE at the table. Personally I think that is the most RIDICULOUS thing .... I mean do you think professionaly would be investing (yes.. 'investing') over $100k in a day while playing Tournaments if there was any kind of b.s. like 'bigger stacks are favored'.

I promise I won't post in any more threads like this. It's nonsense (BUT... it is common for newer players)

LOL, yes, this is the question that never stops being asked , at least every 60 days (or more). Some people continue to "prove" it is rigged. My only response to those people. You have a serious gambling problem if you continue to play a game that you "know" is rigged. Have a nice day all!!

#25 October 1st, 2020, 11:24 AM

The reason most poker sites are not rigged is that a poker site would be shut down if it was discovered to be rigged (and regulated ones are audited regularly). this would make them go out of business. However, a minimal few unregulated ones could be dodgy, as their chance of being discovered is lower, so more of an incentive to pick up extra cash by rigging action.

#26 October 1st, 2020, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by MrPokerVerse

These poker clients are running a business and in the best interest of any money making establishment, is not to screw over their members. If someone doesn't trust the site, then it would be foolish to support them.

Yes, that would appear to be logical if not factoring in actual human behavior.

Boeing, Deutsche Bank, Purdue Pharma, Volkswagen etc. etc. etc. - how many industry titans have little to no regard for sullying their own reputations? I believe the game played is if profits outweigh potential fines, all is good.

Such as JP Morgan this very week – 920 million in penalties for dodgy behavior regarding precious metal futures.

However, we are to believe the gambling industry is a bastion of business integrity?

Each to his own, I’ll retain a healthy dose of skepticism. And for the umpteenth time, I have yet to lose a single dime online. I learned poker with play money, started playing free rolls, joined the CC Free Roll Club less than a year ago where I have built modest stacks on four sites.

It is my suspicion algorithms are weighted. Its frustrating but I navigate my way around. I presume as stakes increase the hands are free of weighting for obvious reasons. Most people committing a fraud do not intentionally leave a trail of breadcrumbs. And as I have stated before, if my suspicions are misplaced, so what? It simply means I play in cautious manner.

The reason I chip into such threads is because I think underlining caution regarding gambling is always a positive – especially when it is accepted that just a small minority of poker players are thought to be profitable.

#27 October 1st, 2020, 1:31 PM

Originally Posted by DS3

The reason I chip into such threads is because I think underlining caution regarding gambling is always a positive � especially when it is accepted that just a small minority of poker players are thought to be profitable.

Its true, that only a minority are long term vinners because of the rake. However speculations about the RNG can prevent people from becoming one of those winning players. If for instance someone truly believe, that the RNG is rigged to favour the big stack in tournaments, then a logical adjustment is to not call, if a bigger stack has moved all in. Which is obviously not an optimal strategy, if the card generation is random. Or people might start to call with garbage "because the worst hand always win".

If you are serious about online poker, you have to put these ideas out of your head and trust the sites, where you choose to play, so that you can focus 100% on your own decision making. And if for whatever reason you dont trust a site, then withdraw all your funds and dont play there any more.

#28 October 1st, 2020, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by DS3

.. I will retain a healthy skepticism as long as I play online.

Well stated DS3.

Regarding the OP's question, what kind of randomness do you mean? As RNG's go do you know what a Mersenne Twister is..and don't cheat by looking it up online right away. Provide facts/evidence of why you think that way and if your question can be answered mathematically then go to the best sources;by this I mean ask KNOWLEDGEABLE poker site support staff, read the fine print in your terms of agreement etc.... Detecting bots, collusion, AI addressing your playing profile.. etc.. is all a matter understanding your environment. DS3 understands.

#29 October 1st, 2020, 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by fundiver199

Its true, that only a minority are long term vinners because of the rake. However speculations about the RNG can prevent people from becoming one of those winning players. If for instance someone truly believe, that the RNG is rigged to favour the big stack in tournaments, then a logical adjustment is to not call, if a bigger stack has moved all in. Which is obviously not an optimal strategy, if the card generation is random. Or people might start to call with garbage "because the worst hand always win".

If you are serious about online poker, you have to put these ideas out of your head and trust the sites, where you choose to play, so that you can focus 100% on your own decision making. And if for whatever reason you dont trust a site, then withdraw all your funds and dont play there any more.

Fundiver, I could not have told this any better. What you are saying is EXACTLY the way it should be.
Dan'O

#30 October 1st, 2020, 3:09 PM

There's an algorithm that people call it random. If we study a bit the process we gonna find out more. Indeed online poker is programmed to cut the game like faster the better so yes the one with big stack usually have a slight favour on his side. I studied this phenomena for years and is always true. They have the same algorithm, but is very hard to prove that cause few got access to the source code which was written back in 90s and never been changed since then.

#31 October 1st, 2020, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by DS3

Yes, that would appear to be logical if not factoring in actual human behavior.

Boeing, Deutsche Bank, Purdue Pharma, Volkswagen etc. etc. etc. - how many industry titans have little to no regard for sullying their own reputations? I believe the game played is if profits outweigh potential fines, all is good.

Such as JP Morgan this very week – 920 million in penalties for dodgy behavior regarding precious metal futures.

However, we are to believe the gambling industry is a bastion of business integrity?

Each to his own, I’ll retain a healthy dose of skepticism. And for the umpteenth time, I have yet to lose a single dime online. I learned poker with play money, started playing free rolls, joined the CC Free Roll Club less than a year ago where I have built modest stacks on four sites.

It is my suspicion algorithms are weighted. Its frustrating but I navigate my way around. I presume as stakes increase the hands are free of weighting for obvious reasons. Most people committing a fraud do not intentionally leave a trail of breadcrumbs. And as I have stated before, if my suspicions are misplaced, so what? It simply means I play in cautious manner.

The reason I chip into such threads is because I think underlining caution regarding gambling is always a positive – especially when it is accepted that just a small minority of poker players are thought to be profitable.

If for one second, my thoughts were hinged on "weighted algorithms", that in it self would be enough to disassociate with the client. If you lose, it was predetermine and that holds true with winning. To then gravitate to higher buyins being safe?

Have to agree with caution, but for much different reason than what was stated. Would rather buy a lottery ticket than invest time in to what was perceived as fixed. Win or lose is then meaningless, so is the time spent.

#32 October 2nd, 2020, 1:09 AM

Originally Posted by MrPokerVerse

If for one second, my thoughts were hinged on "weighted algorithms", that in it self would be enough to disassociate with the client. If you lose, it was predetermine and that holds true with winning. To then gravitate to higher buyins being safe?

Have to agree with caution, but for much different reason than what was stated. Would rather buy a lottery ticket than invest time in to what was perceived as fixed. Win or lose is then meaningless, so is the time spent.

.

MrPokerVerse, appreciate the reply, but everything has context.

I love poker but have no option but to play online as my country of residence does not allow casinos. I am measured in what I say, they are suspicions. I never make ludicrous accusations that I am personally being targeted (no matter the level of frustration at times).

Weighted means many things - for one, that wet boards are constantly dealt to induce action. I have also noted in every such thread I have replied to (whether believable or not) that I am not a losing player. I am patient and ultimately profitable, so I have ample incentive to keep playing - if nothing else out of an enjoyment of beating a system, which I regard as poker and at times poker plus.

#33 October 2nd, 2020, 3:36 AM

Originally Posted by DS3

.

MrPokerVerse, appreciate the reply, but everything has context.

I love poker but have no option but to play online as my country of residence does not allow casinos. I am measured in what I say, they are suspicions. I never make ludicrous accusations that I am personally being targeted (no matter the level of frustration at times).

Weighted means many things - for one, that wet boards are constantly dealt to induce action. I have also noted in every such thread I have replied to (whether believable or not) that I am not a losing player. I am patient and ultimately profitable, so I have ample incentive to keep playing - if nothing else out of an enjoyment of beating a system, which I regard as poker and at times poker plus.

Hope it not coming off as needling. I’m interested in how one approaches the game with this added element of beating the system. It seems you have a two fold strategy which by your admission is producing success.

This site and certain individuals were very instrumental in my development with poker. We both came up in a similar fashion with a apprehensive manner and slow progression to real money play.

Spent a lot time reading and following members in the freerolls, and ask questions. That resulted in participating in discussion groups and running programs on my HH. Most data pointed to errors on my part that were corrected but nothing to the sites program. No data ever pointed to anything regarding the program ran on any site.

Wouldn’t even know where to start adding that element or how one would improve. If it is just a fall back to the fault of the client? What methods do you use and how far do you go taking out navigating the system? Do you feel an accomplishment on winning a tournament. Can’t help to think it is a sterile approach to succeeding and growth.

Again, the replies and post has open an avenue that I never thought about. Don’t buy in to any site running favorable hands to change the results of a hand and how much one wins. Just don’t know how one would approach the game to alter the perception of a perceived out come?

#34 October 2nd, 2020, 5:27 AM

Should be random, but i saw a couple things in recreational sites and i dont know:/

#35 October 2nd, 2020, 5:36 AM

No, this is just a superstition.
It's a long variance in all and you can see sometimes when you are chip leader you will lose every hand at some point

#36 October 2nd, 2020, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by anadrijav

Because in my understanding and my little experience, they favor the one with the most advantage at the table, the last card almost always coming out to complete the one with the most chips, I have seen that happen more than 80% of times.

Yes, I also saw this often. I think this human intervention brought this factor into their scoring system.
That is, adjusted

#37 October 2nd, 2020, 9:47 PM

I enjoy reading, playing against folks who have suspicions about a poker site. What I find hilarious is that some cry that Poker Stars play money is rigged. As for big stacks always winning, there was a time I was uncomfortable being a big stack. Had to learn to push smaller stacks around and when to put them to the test. The 10% rule helped with calling all ins with any 2 cards. J3 os calling an AA all in for 10% of my stack and flopping 2pr or a 3 on flop and river J for 2pr will always cause cries of idiot, fixed, or rigged. The contrast is when I've been a big stack and misplayed it missing the money. Or having seen other big stacks go from penthouse to outhouse. Only from study and work on my game have I come to see how I have won on every fixed, rigged site I've played on. Even the play money ones.

#38 October 3rd, 2020, 8:01 PM

billion dollar question . Get a tracker and go from there.Data doesn't lie .

#39 October 3rd, 2020, 8:51 PM

I think if you play one tournament, the "weighting" will be against you, but the more you play, you will get your chance at playing any two cards and winning.

I have seen the big stack of the table win 10 hands in a row and he plays with any two cards.

#40 October 3rd, 2020, 9:36 PM

Not even close to random.

#41 October 3rd, 2020, 9:42 PM

The long time debate, is online poker truly random. It's a software programmed by man, the same as if you're playing a video game on a computer, console or your mobile phone. Lets just leave it at that. But, what you can control are your decisions which are in your power. Weather you win or lose, all that matters is making the best decisions in that situation. Sort term you may lose, but long time you will be on top if you continue to make correct decisions. Most of all Have Fun! Good Luck!

#42 October 4th, 2020, 1:11 AM

I think that online games are a game of rulera perhaps, it is also in the player when to go or not to go. In short, you have to study when to go or not to go!

#43 October 4th, 2020, 2:41 AM

Originally Posted by MrPokerVerse

Hope it not coming off as needling. I�m interested in how one approaches the game with this added element of beating the system. It seems you have a two fold strategy which by your admission is producing success.

This site and certain individuals were very instrumental in my development with poker. We both came up in a similar fashion with a apprehensive manner and slow progression to real money play.

Spent a lot time reading and following members in the freerolls, and ask questions. That resulted in participating in discussion groups and running programs on my HH. Most data pointed to errors on my part that were corrected but nothing to the sites program. No data ever pointed to anything regarding the program ran on any site.

Wouldn�t even know where to start adding that element or how one would improve. If it is just a fall back to the fault of the client? What methods do you use and how far do you go taking out navigating the system? Do you feel an accomplishment on winning a tournament. Can�t help to think it is a sterile approach to succeeding and growth.

Again, the replies and post has open an avenue that I never thought about. Don�t buy in to any site running favorable hands to change the results of a hand and how much one wins. Just don�t know how one would approach the game to alter the perception of a perceived out come?

Again, I appreciate the dialogue.

No I do not employ any programs to analyze hands (though I do record ludicrous beats, and please note, ones which benefit me). I just observe things every time I play and patterns raise suspicions. Wet boards, big stack dominance (though that appears to have a specific pattern also) and of course the classics such as river cards.

Early days, I played regularly with a set of players in a quiet corner of a large site. We were very friendly with each other and one of our delights was spotting patterns, often on a daily basis. We would try to be first to nail the pattern...flushes, straights, trips etc. It was a lot of fun and we would crack each other up (this was over months). No one was bent out of shape in any way because it was a social game.

I have told my poker origin story elsewhere, but I was a passionate observer of live poker streams (primarily the European Poker Tour) who had never played a single hand. I then ventured online and recoiled as it all felt contrived. But- I ultimately felt compelled to learn, yet was cynical from the get go.

That said, you touch on something of note. As I learnt the game and got traction I started to pride myself how often I could cash in the play money MTTs...then I would enter as many free rolls as possible before ultimately joined the CC FR Club. I chalked whatever success I was enjoying down to study and playing.

But after periods of running in really odd manners yes, I had a realization that the good results (like bad) were much more question of luck/algorithm than any smart or creative play I had made. I certainly do not believe my poker fate on any given day rests in my hands. Yet, it is still enjoyable and profitable. if you remain measured in your approach.

In closing, I note I now play 5 sites and have cashed on all (it expanded since this thread started). Of the 5, there are two I am wary of and the other three seem to play fairly (but then all random number generators are not created equal). I think the point that is missed with someone such as myself, is if I feel (cliche) 'the deck is stacked against me' it all becomes even more of a fun challenge. Holding suspicions or not, beating other players and then beating the algorithm is rewarding.

And, to repeat, I have no choice in the matter, if I want to play, it can only be online.

#44 October 4th, 2020, 5:51 AM

It comes down to how one justifies why they are losing. "It's rigged", "There's no way I should have lost that hand", blah blah blah.

Get real with yourself and justify why you're winning when you do well on a given day. Is that rigged in your favor, everyone else that you beat must feel you had some type of advantage....

It basically comes down to skill and luck. How many times do you see 2 or 3 ppl go all-in and you fold only to see you would have won the hand. Is the system calculating this choice also? I hear this all the time about rigged sites and to me it really doesn't matter if they were rigged (which they're not) because you have a choice on each hand, each street, each bet amount, etc. You can also choose not to play, which is what you should do if you think they're rigged. Are Online Poker games totally random?

#45 October 5th, 2020, 5:44 PM

Originally Posted by DS3

Again, I appreciate the dialogue.

No I do not employ any programs to analyze hands (though I do record ludicrous beats, and please note, ones which benefit me). I just observe things every time I play and patterns raise suspicions. Wet boards, big stack dominance (though that appears to have a specific pattern also) and of course the classics such as river cards.

Early days, I played regularly with a set of players in a quiet corner of a large site. We were very friendly with each other and one of our delights was spotting patterns, often on a daily basis. We would try to be first to nail the pattern...flushes, straights, trips etc. It was a lot of fun and we would crack each other up (this was over months). No one was bent out of shape in any way because it was a social game.

I have told my poker origin story elsewhere, but I was a passionate observer of live poker streams (primarily the European Poker Tour) who had never played a single hand. I then ventured online and recoiled as it all felt contrived. But- I ultimately felt compelled to learn, yet was cynical from the get go.

That said, you touch on something of note. As I learnt the game and got traction I started to pride myself how often I could cash in the play money MTTs...then I would enter as many free rolls as possible before ultimately joined the CC FR Club. I chalked whatever success I was enjoying down to study and playing.

But after periods of running in really odd manners yes, I had a realization that the good results (like bad) were much more question of luck/algorithm than any smart or creative play I had made. I certainly do not believe my poker fate on any given day rests in my hands. Yet, it is still enjoyable and profitable. if you remain measured in your approach.

In closing, I note I now play 5 sites and have cashed on all (it expanded since this thread started). Of the 5, there are two I am wary of and the other three seem to play fairly (but then all random number generators are not created equal). I think the point that is missed with someone such as myself, is if I feel (cliche) 'the deck is stacked against me' it all becomes even more of a fun challenge. Holding suspicions or not, beating other players and then beating the algorithm is rewarding.

And, to repeat, I have no choice in the matter, if I want to play, it can only be online.

After reading over the last reply, can't help but notice you have no tools to know where you profit most from. which hands are losing and just where the leaks are in your game are. Seeing patterns and keeping track of bad beats show a very small snap shot of how you are going.

Early on, ran a my HH, found out A Q was a big loser for me. I play it strong in any position. Was was an easy correction. Finding leaks like that and not getting value can be huge for getting further into cash. Algorithm, big stack dominance and river cards are just odds. There is nothing significant with that, it is a wrong path for growth.

I wish you luck in you're poker endeavor and continual success. You seem to be having fun, that is important.

#46 October 5th, 2020, 8:16 PM

Originally Posted by MrPokerVerse

After reading over the last reply, can't help but notice you have no tools to know where you profit most from. which hands are losing and just where the leaks are in your game are. Seeing patterns and keeping track of bad beats show a very small snap shot of how you are going.

Early on, ran a my HH, found out A Q was a big loser for me. I play it strong in any position. Was was an easy correction. Finding leaks like that and not getting value can be huge for getting further into cash. Algorithm, big stack dominance and river cards are just odds. There is nothing significant with that, it is a wrong path for growth.

I wish you luck in you're poker endeavor and continual success. You seem to be having fun, that is important.

How in the world could anyone identify a pattern without a stock pile of data. By memory ? Either your not getting in the volume or a losing player. Either way no tracker ,no idea.

I am interested in your results . Specially if you play at acr.

#47 October 5th, 2020, 9:21 PM

Originally Posted by greenman

How in the world could anyone identify a pattern without a stock pile of data. By memory ? Either your not getting in the volume or a losing player. Either way no tracker ,no idea.

I am interested in your results . Specially if you play at acr.

I'm PokerVerse and MPVerse on ACR and BCP. Think you are confusing my response to what was said prior. Pattern is something I pay no attention too. HH analysis can be very helpful though. ACR is the same as the other 50 sites I have played on for around 20 years. Most people want to switch sites as the haven't found success. Human nature, can't win so it is the sites fault.

Might want to revisit the other threads between DS3 and myself. If you have any other questions, please ask.

#48 October 5th, 2020, 9:49 PM

Its random as it can be, I notice bad luck more then good luck though, as I don't really have days where I feel invincible as you always take a bad beat even when running good, but I do have days where I just think, kill me now.

#49 October 5th, 2020, 9:58 PM

No es as�, por las limitaciones de la pandemia he jugado mucho �ltimamente, freerolls y torneos de 0,10 centavos de 360 jugadores y me ha ocurrido que tratando de entrar en los puestos premiados he quedado all-in con K8 contra AA y he ganado y entrado en los premios. Tambi�n me ha ocurrido tener AK all-in contra A7 en la mesa Q823 me sirven todas las cartas menos tres river fu� 7.- Paciencia la suerte tambi�n juega.

#50 October 6th, 2020, 3:35 AM

Originally Posted by MrPokerVerse

After reading over the last reply, can't help but notice you have no tools to know where you profit most from. which hands are losing and just where the leaks are in your game are....

....I wish you luck in you're poker endeavor and continual success. You seem to be having fun, that is important.

Thank you. Regarding what I am tooled up to do (or not do), excuse the humble brag, but...

On Saturday I played five free rolls, cashed four. On Sunday I played four free rolls and cashed three. In that mix was a final table. I have not quite yet completed a full year membership (platinum) in the Cards Chat Free Roll Club but across the sites I play, (a few which I joined because of CC), I have cashed a 'few' hundred times in the free rolls I play.

Yet, I still question what I see. More generally.

There are players that rely on their intuition. Some are high profile, such as Bryn Kenney and Dan Coleman. They both profess to limited study at best and Kenney says he has never used a solver - not once.

If I was on a mission (or was to embark on one) to raise my stakes then I might employ a solver but for now I feel no need (I have only dabbled to date).But I do study. However, I do not pretend those on my level are all playing GTO, high level poker, as they aren't. As for AQ being a leak, how many times do you lose with AQ before it registers as a so so hand?

As noted before, the presumption is always if anyone raises a question about online play/algorithms they are automatically a losing player (see above). That underlines to me poker players can suffer from a limited outlook. I am not a losing player and believe another who chips into these threads is not either.

That said, good weekend or not, I still saw plenty of dubious hands unfold. I can and do live with it.

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