Are Online Poker games totally random?

[greenman]

Thank you. Regarding what I am tooled up to do (or not do), excuse the humble brag, but...

On Saturday I played five free rolls, cashed four. On Sunday I played four free rolls and cashed three. In that mix was a final table. I have not quite yet completed a full year membership (platinum) in the Cards Chat Free Roll Club but across the sites I play, (a few which I joined because of CC), I have cashed a 'few' hundred times in the free rolls I play.

Yet, I still question what I see. More generally.

There are players that rely on their intuition. Some are high profile, such as Bryn Kenney and Dan Coleman. They both profess to limited study at best and Kenney says he has never used a solver - not once.

If I was on a mission (or was to embark on one) to raise my stakes then I might employ a solver but for now I feel no need (I have only dabbled to date).But I do study. However, I do not pretend those on my level are all playing GTO, high level poker, as they aren't. As for AQ being a leak, how many times do you lose with AQ before it registers as a so so hand?

As noted before, the presumption is always if anyone raises a question about online play/algorithms they are automatically a losing player (see above). That underlines to me poker players can suffer from a limited outlook. I am not a losing player and believe another who chips into these threads is not either.

That said, good weekend or not, I still saw plenty of dubious hands unfold. I can and do live with it.

I only mention a tracker for going over past hands . Data doesn't lie . About a year ago i crunched four years of data. was amazed how low winning percentage hands won. Not the basic flips(23%)or aces(49%). My biggest concern was flop straight. Only a 33% win rate. Flop boats was 55%. So my decision was simple.

I took a corona break. After 8 months i missed it. Even with those terrible win rates i had a positive ROI with positive profit. Once you move up above 20nl you will see the same players. Low stake way to much moving from table to table for a hud to be useful. Tourney wise for sure . Play till it's no fun.

 

[DS3]

I only mention a tracker for going over past hands . Data doesn't lie . About a year ago i crunched four years of data. was amazed how low winning percentage hands won. Not the basic flips(23%)or aces(49%). My biggest concern was flop straight. Only a 33% win rate. Flop boats was 55%. So my decision was simple.

I took a corona break. After 8 months i missed it. Even with those terrible win rates i had a positive ROI with positive profit. Once you move up above 20nl you will see the same players. Low stake way to much moving from table to table for a hud to be useful. Tourney wise for sure . Play till it's no fun.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.

No doubt I could glean many things from data, I am sure. That is why I mentioned if going up in stakes, I would likely lay hands on as many tools as I could use then decide which benefitted me ( in terms of a willingness to use - some appear very dry to me and unappealing). I am not convinced at this level it would be of much use.

In a similar vein, I went through a period of taking copious players notes as I do play some of the same tournaments if not daily then frequently. Other than color coding them across a spectrum of aggressive to weak, other notes were essentially a waste of time. Patterns did not emerge- a player if in a hand would just generally keep taking an aggressive stance through every street. It is predictable stuff.

Again, I have no doubt the sophistication of play increases with the higher stakes.

 

[youri]

I Don't think it favours any kind of player. You claim that it favors large stacks? My simple explanation for it is this, people with large stacks tend to play better and are more stress free and super focused, less likely to make a bad decision either pre flop or post flop.. thus they'll win more pots.

 

[greenman]

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.

No doubt I could glean many things from data, I am sure. That is why I mentioned if going up in stakes, I would likely lay hands on as many tools as I could use then decide which benefitted me ( in terms of a willingness to use - some appear very dry to me and unappealing). I am not convinced at this level it would be of much use.

In a similar vein, I went through a period of taking copious players notes as I do play some of the same tournaments if not daily then frequently. Other than color coding them across a spectrum of aggressive to weak, other notes were essentially a waste of time. Patterns did not emerge- a player if in a hand would just generally keep taking an aggressive stance through every street. It is predictable stuff.

Again, I have no doubt the sophistication of play increases with the higher stakes.

I understand . i played many years in Palm Beach Florida .Traveled a good bit banking the coins . Got tired and tried online. Free rolls weren't cheap like now a days . BR wasn't as important as it is now. And depositing wasnt so difficult . Best of luck.

 

[Jim Rivas]

Because in my understanding and my little experience, they favor the one with the most advantage at the table, the last card almost always coming out to complete the one with the most chips, I have seen that happen more than 80% of times.

It is not totally random, if you look at it, it may be that players with equal chips, the system is equitable in the distribution of hands and community cards. Now, notice when a player is short of chips, say less than 10 BB and goes all-in against another with more chips, for example the chip leader, notice that up to 72 beats 90% of the time the one with almost no chips . Observe and then tell me or say that what I say is a lie.

 

[luki_jakdo]

They are definitely random because if they were not.... there would be several scandals about online poker i think

 

[MrPokerVerse]

Thank you. Regarding what I am tooled up to do (or not do), excuse the humble brag, but...

On Saturday I played five free rolls, cashed four. On Sunday I played four free rolls and cashed three. In that mix was a final table. I have not quite yet completed a full year membership (platinum) in the Cards Chat Free Roll Club but across the sites I play, (a few which I joined because of CC), I have cashed a 'few' hundred times in the free rolls I play.

Yet, I still question what I see. More generally.

There are players that rely on their intuition. Some are high profile, such as Bryn Kenney and Dan Coleman. They both profess to limited study at best and Kenney says he has never used a solver - not once.

If I was on a mission (or was to embark on one) to raise my stakes then I might employ a solver but for now I feel no need (I have only dabbled to date).But I do study. However, I do not pretend those on my level are all playing GTO, high level poker, as they aren't. As for AQ being a leak, how many times do you lose with AQ before it registers as a so so hand?

As noted before, the presumption is always if anyone raises a question about online play/algorithms they are automatically a losing player (see above). That underlines to me poker players can suffer from a limited outlook. I am not a losing player and believe another who chips into these threads is not either.

That said, good weekend or not, I still saw plenty of dubious hands unfold. I can and do live with it.

It wasn’t until I ran ROI on hands. Was like, what no way, but looking through each hand, was terrible play. Raising early position, calling raises and not letting the hand go.

It was easy to correct once shown my error. Played lot of poker my first 12 years. Was involved with many forums. For 4 years straight, played a weekend series that kept statistics. Both weekend days at about 10:00 AM.

For most part stayed in the top ten. Including a first, second, 2 thirds and 2 fourths. Bonus money for top three spots. Towards the end it became a huge grind. Couldn’t wait for series to end and seem to start back to soon.

Like lot of forums it ship had sailed. It left me uninterested in poker. I get a few 6 person SnG in a week and not too motivated for large field MTT. I enjoy live cash tables and spend most of my time with a stack of chips in front of me.

Nice runs for you here lately and hope they continue.

 

[Maekz1999]

They are random and the systems are regularly checked by a lot of different organisation's. If it was not random all online sites would be down right now. At least all big ones are totally save and random if u don't play on a Cyprus poker site or smthn like that.

 

[kamciono5]

Many people wrote about that strange behavior (favorite players with big stack), but i don't think it's true, Maybe there are some small pr on which software was a little rigged, but in bigger pr like pp, ps, ggpoker etc. i think it's impossible. Poker rooms earn most of their money from rake not from your loss.

 

[DS3]

It wasn’t until I ran ROI on hands. Was like, what no way, but looking through each hand, was terrible play. Raising early position, calling raises and not letting the hand go.

It was easy to correct once shown my error. Played lot of poker my first 12 years. Was involved with many forums. For 4 years straight, played a weekend series that kept statistics. Both weekend days at about 10:00 AM.

For most part stayed in the top ten. Including a first, second, 2 thirds and 2 fourths. Bonus money for top three spots. Towards the end it became a huge grind. Couldn’t wait for series to end and seem to start back to soon.

Like lot of forums it ship had sailed. It left me uninterested in poker. I get a few 6 person SnG in a week and not too motivated for large field MTT. I enjoy live cash tables and spend most of my time with a stack of chips in front of me.

Nice runs for you here lately and hope they continue.

Thanks MrPokerVerse, I enjoy the frank exchange and what you discuss. Can I ask a question? Was it simply you got bored of poker for a while - the break I mean?

The reason I ask about your break is I have been obsessed with poker since I started playing a few years ago. Then this year, with a few issues to deal with I have found myself for the first time a little less connected.

However, whereas I feel like I am getting bored with the level I play (for various reasons) I am not bored of poker per se as I can then watch and relish the recent heads up between Helmuth and Esfandiari for example. Bored of playing but not bored of poker. Which to me indicates maybe I need to take the game more seriously and challenge myself.

So, did you find yourself opting out of all things poker for a period, or specifically playing?

 

[tomk7788]

Online poker is anything but random.

 

[Claudiunm]

In my opinion, yes and no.
In my theory, the two cards each player receives are not random. There are 09 pairs previously formed. But that are given to players at random. Then, the flop, turn and river are random. They do this to give the game more action. For me it remains fair because the room distributes hands randomly among the players.

 

[MrPokerVerse]

Thanks MrPokerVerse, I enjoy the frank exchange and what you discuss. Can I ask a question? Was it simply you got bored of poker for a while - the break I mean?

The reason I ask about your break is I have been obsessed with poker since I started playing a few years ago. Then this year, with a few issues to deal with I have found myself for the first time a little less connected.

However, whereas I feel like I am getting bored with the level I play (for various reasons) I am not bored of poker per se as I can then watch and relish the recent heads up between Helmuth and Esfandiari for example. Bored of playing but not bored of poker. Which to me indicates maybe I need to take the game more seriously and challenge myself.

So, did you find yourself opting out of all things poker for a period, or specifically playing?

Want to say it was the combination of having to play at the prime time of my weekend. Level of which I expected my play to be at, number of years that were spent dedicated to this game and feeling like there wasn’t the burning drive to improve. Became less interested in other poker related outlets (twitch, YouTube and wsop tournaments).

Gravitated towards other interest that were put on the back burner. Now when I play there is more focus and positive energy.

 

[zvezdadelije]

They should be. There are certain websites that are certified that they are 'random'.

 

[derek jones]

Depending on the card room ive felt this way,.. i still sorta feel like intertops favors the big stack.. maybe Its just me? I still love and play the site but i've seen it many many times.

 

[SPANKYSN]

Wishful thinking perhaps, but I would like to believe it is all random...if I did not believe that, there would be no reason to play poker online.

 

[ADRI7HO]

I, too, think that one hopes but can only say for sure if he sees behind the scenes, but as we know it is not possible.
So hope remains for pure play and confidence.

 

[emmy67]

Online poker providers manipulate almost all of their software. Just because everyone wrote that would attract attention, because they are constantly being checked, doesn't have to be true! Has any of you ever been to such a control? You will never be able to prove it to the providers, but they can never prove that they are permanently checked correctly!

 

[JESSIE924]

He ganado manos importantes contra pilas mucho más grandes. He ganada para entrar en los premios estando desconectado y quedando all in sin conexión y he ganado la mano, reconectarme y seguir jugando. He entrado en el último lugar a la mesa final de torneos de 10 centavos y ganar el torneo en mas de una oportunidad. No creo que el sistema esté manipulado. Creo que pensamos que jugamos mejor de lo que en realidad lo hacemos, perdemos y buscamos una excusa. Además la suerte también juega. Estando ya en los premios en un freeroll recibo KK y voy all in me ven dos jugadores con pilas apenas inferiores ambos tenían QQ me dio mucha gracia y enseguida me di cuenta que podían empatarme o incluso ganarme la mano, gané yo pero con un poco de mala suerte pude empatar o perder.

 

[satriyo]

Is the online poker game fair?

Is the online poker game fair? That is the question that crosses our minds when everything goes wrong. Bad cards come and when good cards come ... then the flop goes quite differently. I wonder if there is any institution that certifies that online games are clean.:evil:

 

[jsnake716]

Its true, that only a minority are long term vinners because of the rake. However speculations about the RNG can prevent people from becoming one of those winning players. If for instance someone truly believe, that the RNG is rigged to favour the big stack in tournaments, then a logical adjustment is to not call, if a bigger stack has moved all in. Which is obviously not an optimal strategy, if the card generation is random. Or people might start to call with garbage "because the worst hand always win".

If you are serious about online poker, you have to put these ideas out of your head and trust the sites, where you choose to play, so that you can focus 100% on your own decision making. And if for whatever reason you dont trust a site, then withdraw all your funds and dont play there any more.

Well said, Playing a winning strategy in lower stakes , big player pool tournaments is difficult enough. If you also convince yourself that the RNG is rigged you now need to level yourself against whichever way you feel it is weighted towards. In my opinion that just leads to more frustration.

I enjoy playing online poker, if I really believed I was just playing BINGO or lottery. I would stop playing. I have a database of more than 4 years and can actually "see" where and when I plugged some leaks and even moved up in stakes (just a bit), I can see where I ran above EV and a good stretch (downswing) where I ran way below. Nothing in there is abnormal or where the RNG had me constantly losing to a big stack. Anyway, I guess this is where people will believe what they believe, that's what makes the world go around, I guess.

 

[samsonand]

In all this time that I have been playing online poker, I noticed that most of the games are random, and much because something unexpected always tends to change the course of the hands on the table ahahahaha

 

[capujoss]

I honestly don't think so. I think there are pre-set algorithms that determine in advance that you will get a full-house and your opponent will get a 4 of a kind. That will get both of them to go all-in and the house gets a bigger rake.

 

[FlushyFab]

It’s always seems random when I’ve been playing an online tournament for 5hrs grinding a short stack get dealt pocket KKowboys shove & get called with 2 unsuited rags and get beat on the flop. That seems to always randomly happen in online poker tournaments I play.

 

[BodyCount]

Once I played at 4 tables in P(J)okerStars and was dealt KK on each of them at the same time. This is miles back from probability theory and any kind of randomization With a few simple calculations, it turns out that I can win the national lottery three times in a row with bigger probability. I think there are rooms(not all fortunately) that give advantage to more rakeable players.