10NL easier than 2&5 NL

i just finished using my 1 month trial version of Holdem manager and i noticed something that i am not really able to explain.

I noticed that over 17000 hands that i played at 2NL i was in the red zone, meaning i was down 9 dollars.

then i switched it over to 10NL and noticed that i was up 120$ over 9k hands.

It seems to me as though 10NL is easier than the lower levels.Does anyone else agree on this?

And if so,how is that possible if, in general we say that levels get harder as they increase? Could it be that the players are so bad at 2NL and 5 NL that it is impossibe to win at those limits?

Of course my sample size is small but i personally think that its very hard to win at the very low limits becase bluffs dont work,trying to use the board in your advantage is useless since villains very often fail to notice a scarry board due to lack of understanding the game. and people chase with just about anything. so its easier for your preflop monsters to break.

could i be right? that 10NL is easier than 2 and 5 NL.? im talking about cash 6max.

Reason im asking is because it does not really make sense to be winning at a higher level and losing at a lower one.:hmmmm:

Nothing is easier than 2nl. If you find it difficult, it's probably you tried to get Even the slightest bit fancy. Never bluff unless you know you're against a reg, even then, the regs there might actually call you down lighter because they tend to be mass multitabling and assume everyone is a spaz fish.

I've beaten 2nl at 15-17 bb/100 hands over 90k hands 6 tabling a mix of FR and 6max.

10nl is 'probably' easier than 5nl from what I hear from some CCers, but personally I get crushed every time I go to 10nl, though lol sample about 15 k hands and lose slightly.

5nl is possibly harder due to nittiness making it harder to stack people and also...2nl graduates tend to be studious players. You might find more rec players at 10nl

2nl/5nl are ridiculously easy to beat but 10nl is too.


However, that said...I think there are a ton of fish at 10nl..I mean most people will load like $10..and sit one buy-in at 10nl a opposed to 2nl or 5nl.. I don't think there's a HUGE difference between 2nl-10nl but there is a difference and I would say 10nl have better players overall but still be able to crush them.

Playing being "so bad" means you should be able to tear up the 2nl/5nl tables not be able to lose at it because the players are so bad, it makes no sense

Worse players = huge winrates/better results.

ramdeebam said:

2nl/5nl are ridiculously easy to beat but 10nl is too.


However, that said...I think there are a ton of fish at 10nl..I mean most people will load like $10..and sit one buy-in at 10nl a opposed to 2nl or 5nl.. I don't think there's a HUGE difference between 2nl-10nl but there is a difference and I would say 10nl have better players overall but still be able to crush them.

Playing being "so bad" means you should be able to tear up the 2nl/5nl tables not be able to lose at it because the players are so bad, it makes no sense

Worse players = huge winrates/better results.

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i was thinking the same thing man. maybe im not on my A game at 2NL cause of the small value of the money. who knows. i think 2 NL is unbeatable man. i know that sounds retarded but there is no way i can beat that level. im at a point where i pretend it doesnt even exist,its very annoying to get outdrawn with my aces with a guy calling 5x pre with j-10 off. and calling an over bet on a 369 flop. to turn and river 2 pairs. LOL>

i dont see that happening too often at 10 NL and above.

not enough sample. After 100k+ hands at each level you could maybe start to come to a conclusion

Most people are aware that position is important but are deceived into believing its not as important at lower stakes as it really is. And as you move up in stakes is easier in a way because you know that players respect some poker rules.

No it is not.

/Thread.

i can beat 2nl easily but i have been destroyed at 5nl before, you just have to play it simple in 2nl, blackrain has a great guide to beating 2nl which changed how i played if you look it up! i've beat 2nl pretty easily over a smallish sample but i've been destroyed at 5nl any time i've tried so i'd definitely say 2nl is easier!

Can't say about 10NL but 2NL is super easy even with mechanical play (raise, cbet, collect dead money = profit). Also there are people who stack off lightly preflop and they help with the win rate.

I won 7.5bb/100 but now I think I could do 10bb/100 with some minor adjustments... but that is behind me now.

I do hope 10NL is easier than 5NL

LD1977 said:

Can't say about 10NL but 2NL is super easy even with mechanical play (raise, cbet, collect dead money = profit). Also there are people who stack off lightly preflop and they help with the win rate.

I won 7.5bb/100 but now I think I could do 10bb/100 with some minor adjustments... but that is behind me now.

I do hope 10NL is easier than 5NL

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what do you mean? have you moved up to higher levels? worked your way up the ladder?stake by stake?

I play 5NL now and the idea is to just play one level at a time. I have a good BR for a limit before I move up so no need to switch around if I hit a minor downswing while adjusting.

Exception is if one of my ring game tickets gets massacred, I can then try to refill it a bit at 2NL before going back up. Worked only once

Marginal said:

No it is not.

/Thread.

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this is the correct answer

Acky loves a good thread on which levels harder haha

this is how i rate them from softest to hardest

2nl
5nl
10nl
25nl
50nl
100nl
200nl
400nl
600nl
1,000nl
2,000nl
5,000nl
10,000nl
20,000nl
40,000nl
80,000nl

Any questions?

Marginal said:

this is how i rate them from softest to hardest

2nl
5nl
10nl
25nl
50nl
100nl
200nl
400nl
600nl
1,000nl
2,000nl
5,000nl
10,000nl
20,000nl
40,000nl
80,000nl

Any questions?

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i guess not.

not really come to understand the reason for the post, also I'm learning and all that is good is referred to poker, greetings to all

Simple thing to remember is... Players who are winning, move up the tree... Why stay down the bottom when your making more at higher limits... Just remember that the limits filter out in their own way eventually.

well, maybe i am wrong, but i think that the low cash games, are not so easy as people may think, because there are many players that do not care to loose that small amount, and then they play poker as if they were playing bingo, with any hand go allin and wait for the luck to strike.
That make me loose many good hands, especially on river, when i already had paid one allin with trio or 2 pairs, and then it come the last card that destroy my odds.

How can someone even think that to call one allin with one hand that at the moment it is the best, not to be a good play?
To me a bad play is to go allin and praize for some card (2 or 3 outs, usually)...
Nevertheless, althouth i think i had played it better, i loose many times, and this use to happen in small cash games, reason why many people have better results in more expensive games...

Maybe i am wrong, but this is what i think and what we see every single day in freerolls...

Classic move up where they respect your raises.

Titito said:

well, maybe i am wrong, but i think that the low cash games, are not so easy as people may think, because there are many players that do not care to loose that small amount, and then they play poker as if they were playing bingo, with any hand go allin and wait for the luck to strike.
That make me loose many good hands, especially on river, when i already had paid one allin with trio or 2 pairs, and then it come the last card that destroy my odds.

How can someone even think that to call one allin with one hand that at the moment it is the best, not to be a good play?
To me a bad play is to go allin and praize for some card (2 or 3 outs, usually)...
Nevertheless, althouth i think i had played it better, i loose many times, and this use to happen in small cash games, reason why many people have better results in more expensive games...

Maybe i am wrong, but this is what i think and what we see every single day in freerolls...

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i agree with you here 100%. thats what i had in mind when i made this thread.

Titito said:

well, maybe i am wrong, but i think that the low cash games, are not so easy as people may think, because there are many players that do not care to loose that small amount, and then they play poker as if they were playing bingo, with any hand go allin and wait for the luck to strike.
That make me loose many good hands, especially on river, when i already had paid one allin with trio or 2 pairs, and then it come the last card that destroy my odds.

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vinylspiros said:

i agree with you here 100%. thats what i had in mind when i made this thread.

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Wow, it's difficult to overstate how ridiculous this is.

If people are playing worse because they don't care about the money, then they are easier to beat.

Are you really suggesting that we might want to move up to where players are better in order to beat them more easily? Good luck with that (cos you're going to need it).

Cafeman31 said:

Wow, it's difficult to overstate how ridiculous this is.

If people are playing worse because they don't care about the money, then they are easier to beat.

Are you really suggesting that we might want to move up to where players are better in order to beat them more easily? Good luck with that (cos you're going to need it).

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hey,im not crazy,although i might sound like it. i do understand that the higher you go,the harder it is. i definitely agree with that and of course it makes sense and is a fact.

BUT, what ive noticed and what im trying to say is that it seems as though, when your playing 2NL and 5NL , the game is more unpredictable, you get called down alot lighter and people chase any 1 outer paying 80% of their stacks to catch it regardless of outs and pot odds.

This results in you taking more bad beats and more frequent suckouts. Maybe this leads to tilt(in my case) and im not on my A-game. Generally though thing are really unpredictable at these limits and you never know what your up against.

Example being getting 5 callers to your ultra high squeeze. and stuff like this. Its almost impossible to bluff anyone of anything at these stakes , which is another downside of lower stakes cause bluffing is a very powerful weapon to have in your arsenal. So basically if your playing anything more than ABC poker,then ur basically playing wrong cause creativity and bluffs have NO PLACE in the world of uber micro stakes cash games IMO.

All these points i mentioned make playing anything below 10NL unprofitable and annoying to say the least. (***IMO***)

vinylspiros said:

All these points i mentioned make playing anything below 10NL unprofitable

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Not sure what to say, apart from this is not true.

Cafeman31 said:

Not sure what to say, apart from this is not true.

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your right. i know its not, this is more of a personal opinion based on my own perception of things. subjective 100%.

Dunno about 10NL but 5NL is a freaking nightmare. The mix of players who play horribly (90%+ of the players, or so it seems) is too diverse to know which subtype you are facing, and they change way too often to get a clear idea.

Suckouts come way too often and while in theory in long term (what, million+ hands?) it should be profitable for me I just don't see myself surviving that long. Almost every board has SOME kind of gutshot draw/FD or is paired (and yes he called a massive raise with 95s because hey, sooted!) and you can bet your ass nobody with a gutshot folds to flop cbets and someone is gonna find use for the turn card. Kiss your TPTK/set/top 2 pairs goodbye sonny, there goes another buyin.

In cases where I do have a decent sample and notes it often turns out that the notes are unreliable. Not that they change their game as adjustment, it is probably more "lets try this today" thing.

Basically HUD is semi-useless, notes are semi-useless.

So I switched to learning MSS, they still suck out (because even with me giving no implied odds, there is no folding) but it doesn't hurt as much and the math is much more favourable.