10NL easier than 2&5 NL

[Cafeman]

Thread turning around... keep posting DK!

In my experience, when playing anything below 50NL you are basically playing SHOWDOWN poker because no one ever folds.

When I was playing 4NL recently, I set myself the little challenge of having all my lines above zero - including nonSD winnings. I'm not suggesting this was optimal play by any stretch, and my WR no doubt suffered as a result, but I managed it over a few thousand hands. You can get folds at any limit if you pick your spots/villains in an intelligent manner.

LD, you are clearly intelligent. Me too, although I won't bother you with my CV

I believe some of this comes down to entitlement. You are smarter than these donks who make bad calls pre etc. How can they keep beating you!?!? I also believe some of it comes down to fear.

You need to clear your mind and exploit their bad play. This takes time to learn, and you need a little courage too. I am guessing you do fold too much, don't value bet thin enough, and don't fold enough when you need to etc. All the classic problems a beginner in the game has. I include myself here, since I've only been trying to learn the game seriously for the last couple of years.

As I've said before, I believe you will get there, but only if you start believing the games are beatable. At the moment you are looking at your results and making some very odd conclusions. No one could beat the game without being on a heater owing to rake/randomness etc. Not true mate, just not true. I hope you'll see for youself soon enough.

 

[DunningKruger]

I erred a bit in my last post. If players start 4bet bluffing often enough you may have to forgo 3betting the junk (or bluff shove them lol). A polarized range is effective against players who tend to 4bet when they continue versus a reraise but not necessarily spewtards who are reraising all kinds of weird ****. Against such players you definitely want to 3bet all your premiums obv and extend your value range wider than that.

Don't worry too much about what you might end up showing down, but definitely be aware of what you show down. If you're 3betting every 3rd hand or w/e and squeezing whenever you get the chance, people are going to start assuming it's not KK+ every time whether or not you're actually turning anything over.

The light part of a balanced 3bet range will be strongest hands you can't profitably call with. At MSNL ranges are quite fluid and not as much about using your cards to determine frequencies. At SSNL the amount of Kxs type stuff you end up using depends on how often you're hitting/whiffing certain boards since you don't want your range to be overly weak on like a Qxx board for example. You gotta love those guys that flat their AQo type stuff from the blinds and 3bet like TT+ and mid suited connectors, heh. You know when the board comes down 97T or w/e they're going to be pretty strong a huge % of the time.

At uNL I usually advise not to include Kxs in a default 3bet range, but by all means use it if you're deliberately making a point of abusing someone. Players' opening ranges and their general preflop play etc is going to vary greatly at these limits and on top of that your post flop game and flatting ranges by position both go into what you should 3bet. I kinda like the kiss approach when it comes to 3betting at 5NL, and I think players at that limit are usually better off 3betting more for value (sometimes wide value) and not so much to get cute or to steal big pots with elaborate multi street bluffs. ymmv

 

[Titito]

Nonsense boy.
These same agrofish guys go all in with any shit that even licked the board. Of course, to say they never hit hands and should lose every all in is hubris, but if you see them going all in every other hand it's time to call bullshit, grow a pair, and call with tpgk instead of folding then, for better or for worse. You just got to have a stronger all in range than them.


Seriously. What's up with saying micromicro stakes being unbeatable?????? It's easy as pie and always will be.
Are you guys seriously thinking a pro will lose if they are surrounded by 8 fish?
So fish are the world class pros now? Maybe I'll choose this guy here named with the username 72opwnz0r and stakem him for WSOP then.

Why nonsense? You are agreeing with me... Lets see:
You are saying that "smal fish" use to go many times Allin, and we should see if this happens and then call them. Didn't i said that agressive players use to make many bets and after trust luck will strike? That is exactly what those "allin players" expect (luck to strike), because when they go allin, they are expecting you to pay, and pot to "smile to them"...
Maybe i didn't explain correctly or you didn't understand me, because my English really sucks. Sorry about that.... (please apologise my bad English)

 

[Aleksei]

You mean when they flop top pair? Overpair can be KK+

Yeah sorry

 

[LD1977]

Thanks guys, I am going to have to reread this thread a few times to absorb all this (especially the 3betting stuff).

I will try to pick up my volume again, I love watching tennis and Wimbledon became interesting so I kinda got distracted and then I don't want to play poker on the side since that would be too spewy

 

[Aleksei]

dude, PLAY, SIX-MAX. Ranges are always looser so coolers are never as common.

 

[LD1977]

But 6 max is harder, no?

 

[psychotie]

I learned that ,for example at FTP, most of the players who play microstakes play like its playing with playmoney. At 10/25 cent its getting more serious and the game easier to calculate

 

[edramos_cm]

good tips earned

 

[Aleksei]

But 6 max is harder, no?

It's easier, because multiway pots happen almost never and it's correct to play with a wider range, so you get to use skill to profit more frequently and get coolered much less.

 

[Cafeman]

But 6 max is harder, no?

It's easier, because multiway pots happen almost never and it's correct to play with a wider range, so you get to use skill to profit more frequently and get coolered much less.

Interesting understanding you have there. I guess that means HU is the easiest of the lot.

What's your normal game Aleksei?

 

[Aleksei]

Interesting understanding you have there. I guess that means HU is the easiest of the lot.

What's your normal game Aleksei?

3max. Unfortunately since that's not a thing that exists, commonly, I look for 6max tables about to break.

 

[DunningKruger]

Any sites run 4max still? Ipoker dumped theirs iirc. Zynga has the 5max tables. Those aren't too bad.

 

[Cafeman]

Right, so your normal game is joining 6max tables that are about to break? That's a new one on me

2NL?

 

[Cafeman]

Any sites run 4max still? Ipoker dumped theirs iirc. Zynga has the 5max tables. Those aren't too bad.

Winamax has 3max and 5max games running, but I've never deposited so never played.

 

[Aleksei]

Any sites run 4max still? Ipoker dumped theirs iirc. Zynga has the 5max tables. Those aren't too bad.

Revolution sites have 3max tables, but no actual 3max action.

Right, so your normal game is joining 6max tables that are about to break? That's a new one on me

2NL?

Yeah.

 

[DunningKruger]

Yeah I don't think most sites really have the player pool for these 3 and 4 handed tables etc. Stars could try it, but I have to think there's a good chance it'll just end up similar to the hu tables... a bunch of bum hunting regs with little interest in playing each other and not a lot of action overall.

 

[LD1977]

Daily Cooler (TM):

MP2 ($1.26)
CO ($5)
Button ($2.78)
Hero (SB) ($5)
BB ($8.09)
UTG ($7.96)
MP1 ($5.21)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, K

5 folds, Hero bets $0.15, BB raises to $0.45, Hero raises to $1.25, BB calls $0.80

Flop: ($2.50) 2

, J

, 4

(2 players)
Hero bets $3.75 (All-In), BB calls $3.75

Turn: ($10) 9

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($10) 7

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $10 | Rake: $0.50

Results below:

Spoiler

Hero had K

, K

(one pair, Kings).
BB had 9

, 9

(three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: BB won $9.50

Only 92% on the flop, weak. And yes I know spazzshove is stupid but look who I am playing against.

Can someone again explain to me how I am an idiot since I can't win despite this being a daily occurrence? Also there is the guy who setmines and hits quads: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/5-nlhe-full-ring-kk-vs-226032/

 

[Aleksei]

Yeah I don't think most sites really have the player pool for these 3 and 4 handed tables etc. Stars could try it, but I have to think there's a good chance it'll just end up similar to the hu tables... a bunch of bum hunting regs with little interest in playing each other and not a lot of action overall.

Yeah... I mean, HU cash is the easiest game for a reg to extract value from, but because of that it's also the scariest game to fish.

 

[long_bong]

Lol

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[LD1977]

Here is something interesting and possibly positive.

From the last "big" iteration of my learning process 10.06.2013. until today (I try to introduce changes gradually) rounded stats:
- 23k hands played (average around 1k per day which is not much but I try to play as well as I can and never more than 6 tables)
- actual result -17$ (-1.5 bb/100)
- EV difference = +32$ (3 bb/100)

This means I am in fact mildly in the black, around 1.5 bb/100. Definite improvement. Sample is small though.