What's your play here?

N

Nutcracker69

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Just curious. Take into account I have no more money (not even a penny) so this is my only shot at this tourney.

20hkmzd.jpg
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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No decision should be made in isolation. We need the full hand history to provide an answer,
 
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wowasenotrusov

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I need to see how you played in every phase of the game before. ie pre-flop flop, turn and river . and that so clearly.
 
N

Nutcracker69

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Ok full replay, sorry thought most of the needed info is clear on the screenshot.

Previous hand, Folded to me and I make it 4BB preflop with Q3h (I'm aware this is wrong, I do this for a specific reason that none of you agree with so I won't bother). I take it down. You can see in the SS my position in both hands.

Next hand, I limp, CO limps, button folds, SB raises 3BB, BB calls.

So first decision there is 320 in the pot, with only one potential caller behind me with position, the other two are in front. I have 1740 behind. Yes, my hand is basically sht, but let's be honest, I'm not really intending to play my hand if I flat call here.

I call and CO calls so 420 in the pot to the flop. You can see it. A77hh.

Checked to me, I check and CO bets min 1bb 40. Usually all 4 would stay in, but SB calls, BB folds and I call.

600 in the pot, I have 1620 behind, covered by the CO and slightly covering the SB.

Turn, as you can see, is 9h. I have 2nd nut flush. SB checks, I check, CO bets min 40 1bb again. SB check/raises to 120, which is only 3BB and 1/5th pot. But for some reason, we haven't been playing long enough, I'm concerned he likely has something. Nut flush is a possibility. A weaker flush, especially jack high is also good possibility. Or he could just have a 7 and trying to get out 1 card flush draws. This doesn't make a ton of sense though because of how it has played out and how passive he has been. Few players would take this line with a naked 7. I call the 120 and the CO folds.

You see the rest on the screenshot. There is 880 in the pot, 2d is the river and he shoves all-in. I'd have to call 1400 to win 2280, so terrible odds IMO. But we all know that this guy has just polarized his range. Giving me such terrible odds and shoving like this after very little aggression to this point usually means he either has a monster, thinks he is good, or has turned something goofy or potentially interesting into a bluff.

I can't give any more information out other than the outcome. And we all know we're not supposed to be outcome based. So now that you have all of the available information, what would you do here?
 
B

betonline2016

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At these stakes, a "close" decision would be with like AK or 73o. Never ever ever fold a flush here.
 
tagece

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I think you have really good odds. I would call.
 
Acesinthebig

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I think it boils down to what kind of player he is. I think the play here is a FOLD. Curious to see what he had or if you called???
 
N

Nutcracker69

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Only 3 opinions thus far, and on a site where 200 members a day have no restraint holding back their opinion when i don't want it... I'm going to wait until I see more views.
 
HUmanMustard

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Probably call, but Id need to know the whole hand to make sure.
 
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WiZZiM

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Only 3 opinions thus far, and on a site where 200 members a day have no restraint holding back their opinion when i don't want it... I'm going to wait until I see more views.
Yeah, there isn't that many people in the tournament section, there may be 200 members per day, however not that many frequent this section.


Just curious. Take into account I have no more money (not even a penny) so this is my only shot at this tourney.
It seems like this is a good reason to make bigger folds and lower variance plays, however i think it's the opposite in this case since the relative amount that you are playing for here really isn't going to be detrimental to your life (hopefully) if this was a 2k buyin and that was your whole bankroll it would be a differant story. But i wouldn't really take this into account at all. just play like you normally would.

I see a few flaws in your overall thoughts here that i'm going to point out below in bold.

Ok full replay, sorry thought most of the needed info is clear on the screenshot.
The more info you give the more specific the answers we can give, it also allows us to see into your head a bit and point out possible flaws in your thoughts which is great in terms of fixing leaks.



Next hand, I limp, CO limps, button folds, SB raises 3BB, BB calls.
So first decision there is 320 in the pot, with only one potential caller behind me with position, the other two are in front. I have 1740 behind. Yes, my hand is basically sht, but let's be honest, I'm not really intending to play my hand if I flat call here.

So you limp with Q4s and raised with Q3s the previous hand? just clarifying here, in general i'm not a huge fan of limping with super unconnected hands like this, its obviously much better to do so with stuff that can connect with many more flops, it doenst have great high card strength or connectivity so i'm thinking folding in general would be a better idea, however if you really wanted to play vs the people in your blinds i guess it's ok, but it will lead to more multiway pots and less room to try and take things down postflop so i dunno.


Turn, as you can see, is 9h. I have 2nd nut flush. SB checks, I check, CO bets min 40 1bb again. SB check/raises to 120, which is only 3BB and 1/5th pot. But for some reason, we haven't been playing long enough, I'm concerned he likely has something. Nut flush is a possibility. A weaker flush, especially jack high is also good possibility. Or he could just have a 7 and trying to get out 1 card flush draws.ok so this is a great time to input this range and your hand in an equity calculator to see how you do, i'll attempy to do it but i'm using a mac currently so i might have to wait until later when i'm using a real computer :) This doesn't make a ton of sense though because of how it has played out and how passive he has been. Few players would take this line with a naked 7Trying to make sense of players in lower stakes is essentially pointless especially since you have little in the way of real reads, so you can't really discount anything, he can have all of the above equally as these players tend to overplay hands alot so he could even have a naked Ax type hand here and pretty easily get his whole stack in without a second though.. I call the 120 and the CO folds.

You see the rest on the screenshot. There is 880 in the pot, 2d is the river and he shoves all-in. I'd have to call 1400 to win 2280, so terrible odds IMO. But we all know that this guy has just polarized his range.he's kind of both here, he will have some retarded bluffs in his range, but again at these stakes it tends to be less bluffs and more overplaying of hands he shouldnt, so it actually tends to be a more linear range overall even though he is slightly polarized here too, basically he's gonna show up with more Ax 7x overplayed hands that he will with bluffs here. Giving me such terrible odds and shoving like this after very little aggression to this point usually means he either has a monster, thinks he is good, or has turned something goofy or potentially interesting into a bluff.He's shown aggression on the turn, it might not what you would class as an aggressive move but to him it could be, he did raise the turn small after the flush hit, so it could be a sign of a completed straight OR he's getting scared after slowplaying 7x or Ax, point is we have to include all of these in his range and perhaps weight them differantly in terms of what he's more likely to have.

I can't give any more information out other than the outcome. And we all know we're not supposed to be outcome based. So now that you have all of the available information, what would you do here?


I call, pretty easy one too, like he's gonna show up with random bluffs some of the time, not often imo. He's gonna show up with overplayed hands like 7x lower flushes, higher flushes (rare) full houses (rare) and Ax so without doing an equity calc i'd say we're very much ahead of all that, yeah.. call.
 
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WiZZiM

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Just to clarify, making sense of players is hugely helpful, but you have to do so with a huge amount of empathy towards them. You can't really use your own thoughts and input them into thinking that's how they would play a certain hand, and in terms of defining ranges it's much harder to do in lower stakes which means you are better off just expanding your get it in range/value ranges and dealing with it the times when you are crushed to a full boat or whatever. The times where you double up vs his dead Ax or lower flush will more than make up for those other times.
 
N

Nutcracker69

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Yeah, there isn't that many people in the tournament section, there may be 200 members per day, however not that many frequent this section.



It seems like this is a good reason to make bigger folds and lower variance plays, however i think it's the opposite in this case since the relative amount that you are playing for here really isn't going to be detrimental to your life (hopefully) if this was a 2k buyin and that was your whole bankroll it would be a differant story. But i wouldn't really take this into account at all. just play like you normally would.

I see a few flaws in your overall thoughts here that i'm going to point out below in bold.




I call, pretty easy one too, like he's gonna show up with random bluffs some of the time, not often imo. He's gonna show up with overplayed hands like 7x lower flushes, higher flushes (rare) full houses (rare) and Ax so without doing an equity calc i'd say we're very much ahead of all that, yeah.. call.

1) Thanks for the input!
2) Oddly enough, after watching 3 youtube videos of twitch streams from Negreanu I'm totally trying to change my approach to MTTs. Thing is, his approach/views are much more valuable with lower number of entrants, but applicable even at lower stakes. I still think that these sizeable freerolls need more aggression early to try and build stacks. Other than that, I'm trying to adjust so far. One cash, one 5 out of the money. Point being, don't expect me to have Q3 or Q4s in my hand again unless limped to me in the BB. :)
3) Now I want to wait until you have results from your equity calculator to reveal.
 
N

Nutcracker69

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::sigh::

Now that I'm done with beat stories, I will conclude this one to everyone's surprise... and even though I berate myself for the call, glad to see that with all the info I had most of you would call here most of the time too and expect to TID.

He had 79. So not the nuts, sure. Just the 3rd nuts losing to only 99 (which he had one, so unlikely) and AA (where he would've been drawing to the case 7 after the flop).

You can see some of my text in the SS where I'm telling him what I have before I call and got no reaction, as per usual. BEFORE that, I said "You know, I will rarely call with a flush draw on a paired board, especially the flop" and what I didn't have time to say is ESPECIALLY when an ace is involved. Seems like my entire poker career I'm constantly up against people that think anything A2-AA is the absolute nuts preflop. So A7 is found at a full table far too often. Although usually the numbnuts will raise a decent amount preflop.

Oh well, live and learn. I can almost guarantee this will not be happening to me again for quite some time.
 
mbrenneman0

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ive been watching some of negreanus twitch feeds too, and his ideas are valuable, but they do require knowing what to do in postflop situations, so you have to know how to navigate through the hand or youre going to find yourself in spots where you dont know where youre at a lot of the time.

keep your range tight, play position, dont even bother playing hands from positions earlier than MP unless theyre preflop monsters and youll be okay. you can start playing earlier positions when you get a better handle on postflop play.
 
P

penkov1990

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i would play all in at the turn, not wait river.
 
cwdignus

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undoubtedly call is the best move
 
eidikos

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as i can see its an 25$ prize on demand tournament.
players there play almost all hands.your opponent there could have anything.
easy call for me
 
Propane Goat

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When you gave the HH it smelled like villain had Ax or 7x, agreed with the others in that this is an easy call. Those $25 GTD's have some atrocious play going on with people just mashing buttons, I wouldn't be surprised to see villain turn over a deuce here.

Given that all you have to do is make a good cash in an ACR/BCP CC freeroll and your bankroll is back up and running, I would have given the empty bankroll zero consideration.
 
jomaaan

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Even tho you lost I think it was the right call to call :p
I am surprised he even went to the flop with those cards...
 
Ac3 Meister

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I would nt call in that stage of the tournament anything like that.The information is too little and the risk too big.Patience is the best thing i recomend for you.
 
C

Chipsteal_jj

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Ok full replay, sorry thought most of the needed info is clear on the screenshot.

Previous hand, Folded to me and I make it 4BB preflop with Q3h (I'm aware this is wrong, I do this for a specific reason that none of you agree with so I won't bother). I take it down. You can see in the SS my position in both hands.

Next hand, I limp, CO limps, button folds, SB raises 3BB, BB calls.I believe you should have folded here. The tournament is still in the early stages and you'll see a lot of people playing weak hands like this. You should play tight. Also you didn't have position. Since you wanted to play the hand, I'd say raise 2x or 2.5x bb.

So first decision there is 320 in the pot, with only one potential caller behind me with position, the other two are in front. I have 1740 behind. Yes, my hand is basically shit, but let's be honest, I'm not really intending to play my hand if I flat call here.Again, if you're not intending to play your hand, fold pre-flop


I call and CO calls so 420 in the pot to the flop. You can see it. A77hh.Did you call someones bet or did you min-raise? I didn't understand. Either way, I think again this is a bad play. You should be raising so if villian has Kh he won't be getting his money in good.


Checked to me, I check and CO bets min 1bb 40. Usually all 4 would stay in, but SB calls, BB folds and I call.Again, less than 10% of the pot, raise or check-raise 3-4x here.


600 in the pot, I have 1620 behind, covered by the CO and slightly covering the SB.

Turn, as you can see, is 9h. I have 2nd nut flush. SB checks, I check, CO bets min 40 1bb again. SB check/raises to 120, which is only 3BB and 1/5th pot. But for some reason, we haven't been playing long enough, I'm concerned he likely has something. Nut flush is a possibility. A weaker flush, especially jack high is also good possibility. Or he could just have a 7 and trying to get out 1 card flush draws. This doesn't make a ton of sense though because of how it has played out and how passive he has been. Few players would take this line with a naked 7. I call the 120 and the CO folds.Making assumptions of what hand he has without knowing anything about the player is very bad in my opinion. Once you get stats on the player then you should be doing this.


You see the rest on the screenshot. There is 880 in the pot, 2d is the river and he shoves all-in. I'd have to call 1400 to win 2280, so terrible odds IMO. But we all know that this guy has just polarized his range. Giving me such terrible odds and shoving like this after very little aggression to this point usually means he either has a monster, thinks he is good, or has turned something goofy or potentially interesting into a bluff.

I can't give any more information out other than the outcome. And we all know we're not supposed to be outcome based. So now that you have all of the available information, what would you do here?

I think calling here is as good as folding. Again I say, you shouldn't have played the hand at all. Bad play IMO with no aggression post flop. Either raise or fold.

Edit- The tournament has pretty much just started. A lot of fish in the sea, play tight aggressive and wait for good spots, which this wasn't one at all.
 
N

Nutcracker69

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Helps to know that others would have called, too, as it adds confidence to my desicion making abilities. But as I stated, with adjustments in my game, it will be less likely to end up in a spot like this again. For example, playing for $25 right now and just folded Q3 on the button with no open in front of me, but there were 2 limpers, so not a great option IMO.
 
dgospa

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I would call. Nice odds u have here, and you said your bankroll is 0.I dont see reason to fold here. Maybe i'am wrong but in mine opinion this is definitely call. Cheers!
 
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