villains range

[kanselau]

I don't disagree with you about the 3bet sizing. All I was saying is that villian's range could be wider than we think because of the pot odds he's getting. I think an argument could be made for a slightly larger 3bet only because of the 1,800 chips from antes but it's not gonna come from me. If you didn't want him to fold then mission accomplished, but we can't be angry when he beats us out of a pot like this because that's part of the risk.
Why not bet the flop?

because villians range is super strong on this flop and we want to control the pot size , by investing any more money we are comitting our selves , ok we bet half pot (17k) from our stack 0f 59 , leaves us with 42k and we have invested 32 into the hand. By checking we can one control the pot size and two induce a bluff from our opponent. Not the best flop for our hand and not the best turn either.
Another reason to check the turn is to induce a bet from villain, and if the turn bricked for instance, Im calling his allin.

 

[kanselau]

I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm just saying that his range includes lots of big connector type cards and all sorts of pocket pairs.
I definately think we're behind after the turn.
I would have played it preflop the same but shoved the flop after he checks.

By Shoving this flop we get called by better and worse folds. Like stated before villains was folding to min 3bets like heaps to call a 3bet this big , hes range is not that wide , def doesnt include 55, QJ, KJ type hands. The hands that we beat are AK AQ ,JJ , (and we can discount the AK,AQ because we hold AA) so realistically we beat 2 hands here but the hands that beat us are KQ, KK, QQ,1010, AJs, and for this reason Im not shore if I want to bet flop and play for stacks.

 

[kanselau]

you are implying that his range is looser pre than it is, and you are implying that we should 3bet bigger when the opposite is true.

this is a spot online i would consider not 3betting pre

really you flat this online, why because it looks too strong ? I can see the argument why smaller might be better , but on the other hand live players like to call. So if someone is calling 2.5x then they most often will call 3x , and with 3x its easier to get stacks in compared to 2x.

 

[Lucothefish]

really you flat this online, why because it looks too strong ? I can see the argument why smaller might be better , but on the other hand live players like to call. So if someone is calling 2.5x then they most often will call 3x , and with 3x its easier to get stacks in compared to 2x.

Just play the villain. If they will call a 3x, bet 3x. If they'll call a shove then shove. Value bet as big as you can obv.

3betting EP raises often looks strong. Sometimes you consider flatting against someone with a really high FT3bet because they think you have AA everytime anyway, so there's occasionally more +ev in calling... but 3bet is nearly always best

 

[MediaBLITZ]

No, I use percentage not ratio but I already covered this

Yes and you did it well - your math did not count that $10k as the pot

 

[Lucothefish]

Yes and you did it well - your math did not count that $10k as the pot

Pot odds assuming 9 antes:

Percentage method, call/(call+pot): 10,000 / (10,000 + 24,800) = 28.7%

Ratio method (pot/call): 24,800 / 10,000 = 2.48:1

Use whatever works for you. I only jumped in because AF said:

...10000 more for him to win 25000...

When it's technically 10,000 more to win ~35,000. That's all.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Doubt you're inducing many bluffs on that board, given it smashes our range as well.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Pot odds assuming 9 antes:

Percentage method, call/(call+pot): 10,000 / (10,000 + 24,800) = 28.7%

Ratio method (pot/call): 24,800 / 10,000 = 2.48:1

Use whatever works for you. I only jumped in because AF said:



When it's technically 10,000 more to win ~35,000. That's all.

Oh okay, I get it now - thought it was a pot odds calc - my mistake.