villains range

[atlantafalcons0]

28.7%

Lol, tell a chartered accountant to 'do the math', why not

Seems like pretty good pot odds to me to call with a semi wide range.

BTW, I'm getting 2.48/1 pot odds.

 

[Lucothefish]

Seems like pretty good pot odds to me to call with a semi wide range.

BTW, I'm getting 2.48/1 pot odds.

That's the other way of expressing it, I prefer percentages but whatever you're comfortable with

We don't actually want him to fold, calling would still be a mistake though. As duggs said, if anything we should 3bet smaller.

 

[nkrijeka]

based on what we know, i seriously doubt he would call all in with just a pair. you should have placed at least a continuation bet on the flop to test the waters since the flop was terrible for A/A. i vote fold.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

That's the other way of expressing it, I prefer percentages but whatever you're comfortable with

We don't actually want him to fold, calling would still be a mistake though. As duggs said, if anything we should 3bet smaller.

I don't disagree with you about the 3bet sizing. All I was saying is that villian's range could be wider than we think because of the pot odds he's getting. I think an argument could be made for a slightly larger 3bet only because of the 1,800 chips from antes but it's not gonna come from me. If you didn't want him to fold then mission accomplished, but we can't be angry when he beats us out of a pot like this because that's part of the risk.
Why not bet the flop?

 

[Lucothefish]

Well we might have to disagree that a villain who 'seems to fold to 3bet quite often' will open from EP and call a 3x 3bet with anything resembling a semi wide range.

 

[WiZZiM]

pot odds don't mean a lot when you are oop facing a 3bet in a huge pot with a low spr. his calling here with most of the hands mentioned is pretty bad.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

Well we might have to disagree that a villain who 'seems to fold to 3bet quite often' will open from EP and call a 3x 3bet with anything resembling a semi wide range.

Maybe it was selective memory.

pot odds don't mean a lot when you are oop facing a 3bet in a huge pot with a low spr. his calling here with most of the hands mentioned is pretty bad.

Pot odds don't mean a lot, but it means something.
2.5/1 to see if you get a set is a pretty good price.

 

[duggs]

set mining in 3bet pots 100bb deep is generally bad, doing it in 35bb pots is unbelievable awful.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

set mining in 3bet pots 100bb deep is generally bad, doing it in 35bb pots is unbelievable awful.

In this situation, he wouldn't have been set mining in a 35bb pot.
It was a 12.5bb pot.
5bb more to set mine.

 

[duggs]

sorry i left out the word eff, setmining in 3bet pots 35bb eff is unbelievably bad

 

[atlantafalcons0]

sorry i left out the word eff, setmining in 3bet pots 35bb eff is unbelievably bad

Why is setmining with 35bb effective stacks bad?

 

[duggs]

because you arent getting immediate odds to setmine, since you need like 8.5-1 to hit on the flop, and you no longer have implied odds since we now have an SPR of like 2ish.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

He has to put 5bb in to win like what, 37, 38bb total? So he has to win stacks every single time he gets a set and he still won't breakeven.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

because you arent getting immediate odds to setmine, since you need like 8.5-1 to hit on the flop, and you no longer have implied odds since we now have an SPR of like 2ish.

Good to know you think our opponent will never setmine.

 

[duggs]

Good to know you think our opponent will never setmine.

what does that even mean?
we have a competent assumption on the opponent. that means he isnt awful.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Good to know you think our opponent will never setmine.

Useful comment...

Not even sure what you're trying to argue here anymore.

[X] Opponent would have to be terribad to set-mine here
[ ] We think opponent is terribad

 

[atlantafalcons0]

Useful comment...

Not even sure what you're trying to argue here anymore.

[X] Opponent would have to be terribad to set-mine here
[ ] We think opponent is terribad

So if he has pocket kings he's setmining and "terribad"?

 

[duggs]

im not arguing he doesnt have KK, im arguing that calling KK purely to setmine is terribad.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

im not arguing he doesnt have KK, im arguing that calling KK purely to setmine is terribad.

I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm just saying that his range includes lots of big connector type cards and all sorts of pocket pairs.
I definately think we're behind after the turn.
I would have played it preflop the same but shoved the flop after he checks.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Suggesting he's set-mining KK doesn't even make sense to say, so I'm going to assume from now on you're just saying things to be controversial.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm just saying that his range includes lots of big connector type cards and all sorts of pocket pairs.
I definately think we're behind after the turn.
I would have played it preflop the same but shoved the flop after he checks.

So basically we're in agreement - not sure what the last 10 posts were for lol.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

MINE

So how much did you raise?
Just wondering because preflop before the villian raised there would be around 5000 in the pot already. If he made it 5000 to play, your raise of 15000(?) would give the guy great pot odds to call (10000 more for him to win 25000) with all sorts of hands. This flop hits lots of hands in his range and it's pretty obvious that you're behind when he shoves.
I'd fold.

YOURS

Should bet the flop imo. We're still ahead of villain's range, and that's like the most coordinated non-flush board ever. We're getting the money in good against hands like KJs and QJ, and we're never drawing dead even if behind.

When you check the flop you have to snap-fold the turn. Basically his whole range that wasn't already there on the flop got there. The only hands I can think of that you beat are 1 pair with an ace, and those likely go all in preflop, and definitely don't shove on that turn, plus there are fewer combos since we have 2 aces in our hand. So as played snap-fold.

Seems like we're in agreement to me.

 

[duggs]

you are implying that his range is looser pre than it is, and you are implying that we should 3bet bigger when the opposite is true.

this is a spot online i would consider not 3betting pre

 

[MediaBLITZ]

You both forgot to add the 10k that he calls

So if you count that, then it's 3.5 to 1???

 

[Lucothefish]

So if you count that, then it's 3.5 to 1???

No, I use percentage not ratio but I already covered this