Tired of losing over and over

[Garfield52]

well RAGEQUIT offered a real eye opener. better to play bingo I guess if you want to make money fast. LMAO

 

[Justin Bloomquist]

I am in the same boat as you are. I win free money playing freerolls and I get up to a certain amount and lose it. I have $0.22 in my account on ACR. I am trying to build a bankroll from nothing.

 

[hemlok]

thats why i love it

Hi there, at least one person per day writes a post on this topic on a Poker forum. I think what often happens is that people have the wrong idea about how profitable Poker is. You are playing a very difficult game where the biggest winners are only making a modest profit margin. This margin is a lot smaller than most people realise. The sickest pros have an average winrate of somewhere in the region of 5% (Over many thousands of hands). In plain English, this means that on average, out of every 20 pots they play they will win 11 of them and lose 9. I realise that these are ideal generalisations but I'm just trying to explain it clearly. The number 9 and 11 are not that far apart. And it gets worse. These wins and losses do not appear in a neat line. They can be spread out in any sequence throughout a player's session. This is why pros can often have long strings of losing sessions. They never know from pot to pot what is going to happen, they only know their expected average return over a large sample, and this is what they play for. A lot of depression is caused in Poker due to players expecting to see instant returns on their efforts. Sadly the game is just not built that way. The winning player's margin is so small, that it can take a very long time to see any meaningful results. For example if you're an NL2 cash player (Blinds $0.01/$0.02) with a modest winrate of 3bb/100 hands, then this translates to $0.06 / 100 hands. This is a winrate of $0.0006 per hand of Poker. If that same player plays 78 hands per hour then their hourly rate is $0.05 per hour. (5 cents per hour). This is equivalent to a tournament player grinding $0.50 SNGs with an ROI of about 10%.. (Roughly). You would probably make more money walking around for that hour looking for coins on the ground, and this is why many players choose to multitable.



Here's another example: A 5% winning player at $3/$6 can expect to make 5bb/100 hands = $30. If that player is also doing about 78 hands per hour then they can expect an average hourly rate of about $23 per hour. This is meaningful money. (This figures are approximate but they are fine for getting my point across). After 8 hours at this rate, that's like a full day's pay. So a player who is winning at a rate of 5% is feeling ok about the time they're putting in, and so they don't mind losing 9 pots out of every 20. But at the micros it tends to cause a lot of pain because there's nothing to show for the time spent. The same applies to SNG players who have positive ROIs but aren't seeing the effect because the amounts are so small. Moving up is the only way to solve this problem but it has to be done by beating each of the limits in succession. If you skip over the lower limits and can't beat them then what skills are you going to bring to the higher stakes games? The answer is none because you won't have them. These skills are practiced and perfected using amounts of money that don't matter until you are ready to up the ante.



And just to note, these figures don't even include the rake! You have to beat that too AND have a positive ROI or bb/100. So again, only the very best players are going to achieve this consistently without relying on luck. At the higher limits, these winrates translate to bigger and more useful amounts of money, and the rake% are also lower which increases the good player's winrate. So my point is, this game is going to be loaded with losing sessions and winning sessions spread out in random patterns. If you expect a reliable pattern in your results then you are going to be very disappointed and therefore become depressed. It's very easy for the whole game to seem like a conspiracy against us when we are in that mindset. But the key to success is getting control of your mind first and how it deals with these emotions that Poker generates. Play for the long term. Maybe take a break for a few months and save up a larger bankroll. Then you can come back and play for more meaningful amounts of money. That way, your modest wins will seem much more significant. But again, don't forget to learn the skills required to beat the limit you're playing at. Best of luck. R

this is why i love poker. Although tiny, even a beginner has a chance to beat a pro. unlike all other sports where its simply imposssible.
:ciao:

 

[dbchristy]

This may or may not help. When Chris F did the bankroll challenge, he said it took 9 months to get to a hundred bux. He eventually went to freerolls only until he got to 20 bux. If you dont do this, it seems like a endless circle of cashing in a freeroll and then going to a small mtt and back to broke. Im gonna try to do freerolls until 20 Ill let ya know

 

[3cent]

the real truth :

THERE'S NO SPOON

CARDS ARE ONLY A MIRAGE

 

[bmw1983kaz]

Hi there, at least one person per day writes a post on this topic on a Poker forum. I think what often happens is that people have the wrong idea about how profitable Poker is. You are playing a very difficult game where the biggest winners are only making a modest profit margin. This margin is a lot smaller than most people realise. The sickest pros have an average winrate of somewhere in the region of 5% (Over many thousands of hands).

That is not taking into account the odd mistake here or there, by that I mean the money lost due to making mistakes. Isolated making a mistake here or there is no big deal but when you look at the big picture it's a real worry.

Most of us just don't take this into consideration.

Just take the example of pro players making one big blind an hour on average, well all I need to do is make one call that was a mistake in hindsight to wipe out all the profit made. And that's assuming the "pro" is making one big blind per hour profit and not 1/2 big blind for example. It makes sense when you look at it this way that to make a profit in any form of speculation, whether that be card player hitting the tables or punter at the horse races -it's limiting your mistakes is where your profit is at not making right moves etc etc... and really the only reason why these guys win a noticeable amount of money is because they risk big and have bankroll management proper sorted. You can start off at the low limits iif you want/need to but don't expect to make anything money wise that you notice until everything clicks, slow and steady wins the race.. well at the lower levels anyways.

Go big or go home I suppose, unless you have proper patience and no expectations.​

 

[dino]

I would highly suggest to read some "strategy articles" on top of every CC Page.
If you're constantly losing, then you need to change your approach to the poker, change your game, learn more about pot odds, implied odds, how to play position, etc... then apply a bit to your game, it will be better for you in the long run.
Take a break few days from poker, read and re-read few articles, then hit the tables again.

Wish you good luck.

Hello everyone,

Every time I start to try to build a bankroll I always keep getting bad beats and cannot make hands.

Any advice to get over the hump. It just seems losing is a habit and not just an occurance.

What is the optimal way to play poker? Aggressive,conservative?

I am sick and tired of losing constantly.

 

[bobgio]

Maybe you should fold more.
I find that when I constantly chase the flush or straight it can kill my bankroll slowly
On the other hand, drawing a flush or straight, or possibly 3 of kind if a pair hits on the board even though you were drawing to a flush or straight, could give a monster hand in the end as the other players might not put you on that. Especially of they make 2 pair or pair an Ace. Then they might be overestimating their hand and you can pile up the chips.
So you have to decide.
Do you want to preserve chips and fold (i.e. fold to win patiently when you get the hands)
or do you want to accept the occasional gusher hands that propel you to the stack you were hoping for?

 

[JOSEALBERTV]

The best thing is to take a break, and take advantage of that time to analyze your game more, this way you can see more positive results.

 

[garibe]

I went through this whole topic. Just want to share my experience and the tips that made me realize how to improve the game and finally win something. (btw - I only play tournaments).

I started playing online in 2007 and by 2009 I had the luck to be able to get something like 20 bucks just playing freerolls and .11c 360players tourneys on pokerstars. I stopped playing around mid-2009 because of college and my career right after.

Then, comes 2016 and I try online poker again. Just to play 300 mtts (freerolls) on ACR and 888 (the only ones available in the country I was) to not make a single cent.

Why I was not able to get to the money?

- The only study I had was from books written before 2004;

- The online game of poker had changed DRASTICALLY compared to the early days;

- I thought that I was better than I actually was (which means, I was really BAD at the game and did not know anything of it).

I move to the US in 2018. End of 2020 I see that PokerStars is going online in the state I live. With that, I start playing on PS and ACR again.

Instead of jumping into games, I looked for INFORMATION. And my friends, information is not for free. Free information is LITTLE information and will not make you improve a lot, although it is improvement.

So, the things I did to finally start winning something:

- SNG. I joined a study group and paid 100 dollars for a complete S&G course with the basics of the game, strategy, game/mtt stages, stack sizes, position and finally RANGE CREATION and RANGE STUDY OF OPPONENTS.

- Played the games and used the knowledge aquired;

- Understood that I am still really bad at the game;

- After some winnings in Freerolls and micro stakes mtts I went to get more INFORMATION. this time I bought a MTT course that added even more plays to my game and understanding of more complex strategies.

Right now, after 5 months of play (I am not grinding it, I play 1mtt/day during the week and something around 8 during the weekends) I was able to get a bankroll of 100dollars.

That was just the first step. In general, also adding a poker tracker to study is definetely making a huge difference to me. Where I can see which positions im not playing well, the hands I have doubts I can run into free solvers online and of course, look for winner players and "scholars" to check the solvers results because that can also cause you trouble if you dont know how to do it.

So now, the main thing I understood:

- VARIANCE.

theres nothing you can do against it. The way to improve is to check the hands where some bad stuff happened and figure out if that was be correct decision.

Poker is a game of long term results. (btw writing it helps me remind these things as well and not go on tilt or depression thinking that I "deserve" to win.)

 

[CDNMAN 42]

STATS

Hi there, at least one person per day writes a post on this topic on a Poker forum. I think what often happens is that people have the wrong idea about how profitable Poker is. You are playing a very difficult game where the biggest winners are only making a modest profit margin. This margin is a lot smaller than most people realise. The sickest pros have an average winrate of somewhere in the region of 5% (Over many thousands of hands). In plain English, this means that on average, out of every 20 pots they play they will win 11 of them and lose 9. I realise that these are ideal generalisations but I'm just trying to explain it clearly. The number 9 and 11 are not that far apart. And it gets worse. These wins and losses do not appear in a neat line. They can be spread out in any sequence throughout a player's session. This is why pros can often have long strings of losing sessions. They never know from pot to pot what is going to happen, they only know their expected average return over a large sample, and this is what they play for. A lot of depression is caused in Poker due to players expecting to see instant returns on their efforts. Sadly the game is just not built that way. The winning player's margin is so small, that it can take a very long time to see any meaningful results. For example if you're an NL2 cash player (Blinds $0.01/$0.02) with a modest winrate of 3bb/100 hands, then this translates to $0.06 / 100 hands. This is a winrate of $0.0006 per hand of Poker. If that same player plays 78 hands per hour then their hourly rate is $0.05 per hour. (5 cents per hour). This is equivalent to a tournament player grinding $0.50 SNGs with an ROI of about 10%.. (Roughly). You would probably make more money walking around for that hour looking for coins on the ground, and this is why many players choose to multitable.



Here's another example: A 5% winning player at $3/$6 can expect to make 5bb/100 hands = $30. If that player is also doing about 78 hands per hour then they can expect an average hourly rate of about $23 per hour. This is meaningful money. (This figures are approximate but they are fine for getting my point across). After 8 hours at this rate, that's like a full day's pay. So a player who is winning at a rate of 5% is feeling ok about the time they're putting in, and so they don't mind losing 9 pots out of every 20. But at the micros it tends to cause a lot of pain because there's nothing to show for the time spent. The same applies to SNG players who have positive ROIs but aren't seeing the effect because the amounts are so small. Moving up is the only way to solve this problem but it has to be done by beating each of the limits in succession. If you skip over the lower limits and can't beat them then what skills are you going to bring to the higher stakes games? The answer is none because you won't have them. These skills are practiced and perfected using amounts of money that don't matter until you are ready to up the ante.



And just to note, these figures don't even include the rake! You have to beat that too AND have a positive ROI or bb/100. So again, only the very best players are going to achieve this consistently without relying on luck. At the higher limits, these winrates translate to bigger and more useful amounts of money, and the rake% are also lower which increases the good player's winrate. So my point is, this game is going to be loaded with losing sessions and winning sessions spread out in random patterns. If you expect a reliable pattern in your results then you are going to be very disappointed and therefore become depressed. It's very easy for the whole game to seem like a conspiracy against us when we are in that mindset. But the key to success is getting control of your mind first and how it deals with these emotions that Poker generates. Play for the long term. Maybe take a break for a few months and save up a larger bankroll. Then you can come back and play for more meaningful amounts of money. That way, your modest wins will seem much more significant. But again, don't forget to learn the skills required to beat the limit you're playing at. Best of luck. R

I don't doubt your stats, as depressing as they are, are accurate and as such would discourage a lot of players...however, on the positive side, I used to play a lot of live games in Canadian casinos (before COVID) and I usually played $1/$3 NLHE with a minimum of a $200 buy in, and I did fairly good at this level..then one night there were no spots available at my chosen game so I opted for a $3/$6 Limit game. In the 5th hand although I had folded pre flop two players got very aggressive and yes there turned out a bad beat, quad 10s beaten by a straight flush..the bad beat pot was over $375,000. and my table share was $12,900. not too bad for a $3 investment. So although normally winnings are in the small per hour category there are times that a monster win can happen..

 

[alabos]

you need to adjust at your table.....but for sure if you go aggressively you will go up fast or loose fast.......that the way i think and when i go up i play more conservatory......depend of all players and table you play

 

[tourpro99]

My keys were good bankroll management---never play for more than 5 percent of my current bankroll---and try to play opposite to how the table is playing...if it's tight I play loose and vice-versa.

 

[LetterRip]

Hello everyone,

Every time I start to try to build a bankroll I always keep getting bad beats and cannot make hands.

Any advice to get over the hump. It just seems losing is a habit and not just an occurance.

What is the optimal way to play poker? Aggressive,conservative?

I am sick and tired of losing constantly.

Play smaller fields - 6max or 9max single table tournaments? These should reduce your variance. You will play fewer hands per game, and thus fewer opportunities for high variance hands to hit you.

 

[ezehector4]

You need to have strong bankroll management as well as a strong mindset.

 

[bioman420]

In this case, friend, the way is to review the way you are playing, train more in freerolls, or even in the fictional one, but the right thing is to give some time in this interval, it won't be anything not to study a little more about the game, migrate for sports betting to recoup your spent bankroll, throwing a few dollars at the casino might help you in some way.

 

[Plut41]

I went through this whole topic. Just want to share my experience and the tips that made me realize how to improve the game and finally win something. (btw - I only play tournaments).

I started playing online in 2007 and by 2009 I had the luck to be able to get something like 20 bucks just playing freerolls and .11c 360players tourneys on pokerstars. I stopped playing around mid-2009 because of college and my career right after.

Then, comes 2016 and I try online poker again. Just to play 300 mtts (freerolls) on ACR and 888 (the only ones available in the country I was) to not make a single cent.

Why I was not able to get to the money?

- The only study I had was from books written before 2004;

- The online game of poker had changed DRASTICALLY compared to the early days;

- I thought that I was better than I actually was (which means, I was really BAD at the game and did not know anything of it).

I move to the US in 2018. End of 2020 I see that PokerStars is going online in the state I live. With that, I start playing on PS and ACR again.

Instead of jumping into games, I looked for INFORMATION. And my friends, information is not for free. Free information is LITTLE information and will not make you improve a lot, although it is improvement.

So, the things I did to finally start winning something:

- SNG. I joined a study group and paid 100 dollars for a complete S&G course with the basics of the game, strategy, game/mtt stages, stack sizes, position and finally RANGE CREATION and RANGE STUDY OF OPPONENTS.

- Played the games and used the knowledge aquired;

- Understood that I am still really bad at the game;

- After some winnings in Freerolls and micro stakes mtts I went to get more INFORMATION. this time I bought a MTT course that added even more plays to my game and understanding of more complex strategies.

Right now, after 5 months of play (I am not grinding it, I play 1mtt/day during the week and something around 8 during the weekends) I was able to get a bankroll of 100dollars.

That was just the first step. In general, also adding a poker tracker to study is definetely making a huge difference to me. Where I can see which positions im not playing well, the hands I have doubts I can run into free solvers online and of course, look for winner players and "scholars" to check the solvers results because that can also cause you trouble if you dont know how to do it.

So now, the main thing I understood:

- VARIANCE.

theres nothing you can do against it. The way to improve is to check the hands where some bad stuff happened and figure out if that was be correct decision.

Poker is a game of long term results. (btw writing it helps me remind these things as well and not go on tilt or depression thinking that I "deserve" to win.)

Thanks for sharing! So how would you describe these courses? We're they actually good? Whenever I see stuff online it really just basics that peopIe repeat over and over. Started with 2$ and got up only to 25$ within 3-4 weeks by playing 0,25 spin n go's. Trying to play brutally honest, solid poker but I am stuck at 25$

 

[Zirkzee]

I'm assuming that you play tournaments to build a bankroll. It is completely normal that you cannot always place yourself in the prize money. It can be easy that you do not make the prize money for 10 tournaments in a row even though you do everything right. You will not be able to avoid a situation in the tournament in which you will risk your tournament life in 50:50 hands. And even if you are 80:20 ahead with AA or KK against another pair, you have to get through first. After all, you lose every fifth hand in this constellation. In freerolls, the variance is even higher, as many players with marginal hands are already all-in pre-flop. There is not much post-flop play there because you look old even with aces against four opponents. So that you can isolate opponents preflop you almost always have to put your power hands all in preflop so that not so many call. In tournaments with buy-ins, you have to play differently. There I wouldn't go all in preflop before I had less than 10 big blinds. Nobody wants to waste their buy-in, so the opponents play tighter and will not take so much risk and go all in preflop with all possible hands. You can therefore raise preflop bluff with hands like A2-A9 or K4-K9. But as soon as someone 3-bets you, you're out. If the flop is not draw-heavy and you have less than 3 opponents, you can win the pot with a c-bet even if you haven't hit anything. Divide your open-raising range into a 3-bet / fold and a 3-bet / call range. Your range depends on your position and your reads on your opponents. You can raise further against tight opponents than against loose. I would never limp into an unopened pot. There is either a raise or a fold. If two opponents have already called the big blind, a limp with speculative hands such as suited connectors or small pocket pairs makes sense.

 

[karaafrika]

Hello, you are not alone.
If your losses are temporary, then it is tolerable.

 

[Daen27]

Patience is the main thing in . I collected a bankroll after a month of playing, every day for several hours of activity I played for free and micro.