Tired of losing over and over

K

karl coakley

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Hi there, at least one person per day writes a post on this topic on a Poker forum. I think what often happens is that people have the wrong idea about how profitable Poker is. You are playing a very difficult game where the biggest winners are only making a modest profit margin. This margin is a lot smaller than most people realise. The sickest pros have an average winrate of somewhere in the region of 5% (Over many thousands of hands). In plain English, this means that on average, out of every 20 pots they play they will win 11 of them and lose 9. I realise that these are ideal generalisations but I'm just trying to explain it clearly. The number 9 and 11 are not that far apart. And it gets worse. These wins and losses do not appear in a neat line. They can be spread out in any sequence throughout a player's session. This is why pros can often have long strings of losing sessions. They never know from pot to pot what is going to happen, they only know their expected average return over a large sample, and this is what they play for. A lot of depression is caused in Poker due to players expecting to see instant returns on their efforts. Sadly the game is just not built that way. The winning player's margin is so small, that it can take a very long time to see any meaningful results. For example if you're an NL2 cash player (Blinds $0.01/$0.02) with a modest winrate of 3bb/100 hands, then this translates to $0.06 / 100 hands. This is a winrate of $0.0006 per hand of Poker. If that same player plays 78 hands per hour then their hourly rate is $0.05 per hour. (5 cents per hour). This is equivalent to a tournament player grinding $0.50 SNGs with an ROI of about 10%.. (Roughly). You would probably make more money walking around for that hour looking for coins on the ground, and this is why many players choose to multitable.



Here's another example: A 5% winning player at $3/$6 can expect to make 5bb/100 hands = $30. If that player is also doing about 78 hands per hour then they can expect an average hourly rate of about $23 per hour. This is meaningful money. (This figures are approximate but they are fine for getting my point across). After 8 hours at this rate, that's like a full day's pay. So a player who is winning at a rate of 5% is feeling ok about the time they're putting in, and so they don't mind losing 9 pots out of every 20. But at the micros it tends to cause a lot of pain because there's nothing to show for the time spent. The same applies to SNG players who have positive ROIs but aren't seeing the effect because the amounts are so small. Moving up is the only way to solve this problem but it has to be done by beating each of the limits in succession. If you skip over the lower limits and can't beat them then what skills are you going to bring to the higher stakes games? The answer is none because you won't have them. These skills are practiced and perfected using amounts of money that don't matter until you are ready to up the ante.



And just to note, these figures don't even include the rake! You have to beat that too AND have a positive ROI or bb/100. So again, only the very best players are going to achieve this consistently without relying on luck. At the higher limits, these winrates translate to bigger and more useful amounts of money, and the rake% are also lower which increases the good player's winrate. So my point is, this game is going to be loaded with losing sessions and winning sessions spread out in random patterns. If you expect a reliable pattern in your results then you are going to be very disappointed and therefore become depressed. It's very easy for the whole game to seem like a conspiracy against us when we are in that mindset. But the key to success is getting control of your mind first and how it deals with these emotions that Poker generates. Play for the long term. Maybe take a break for a few months and save up a larger bankroll. Then you can come back and play for more meaningful amounts of money. That way, your modest wins will seem much more significant. But again, don't forget to learn the skills required to beat the limit you're playing at. Best of luck. R



LoL, The reality of poker....

Kind of reminds me of golf, a few mins to learn a lifetime to master.

Not only do you have to learn a profitable game, you also need to learn how to manage your sessions and bankroll which will kill you just as fast as leaks.
 
Sil3ntness

Sil3ntness

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How many hands are you playing? If you put in a ton of volume variance should smoothen itself out in the long run. One of the things that pro poker players have is discipline and mental fortitude. You can't let bad beats get you down. If you lose to a lot of bad beats take a break until you can relax and then try again.

Poker is a journey and not a race. Eventually losing AA to KK or KK to AA will start to become a slight annoyance instead of a total doom and gloom situation.
 
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Rolex

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Yeah I'm in the same position only way I see making any money is to hit a big score
 
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Zzzonked

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Ragequit, that was the best reply/explanation ever. Hats off to you (y)
 
kratos

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I made a thread just like this one.At Breags Beats and Chalenges.I advise you to take a break.
 
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Honest

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Have you ever heard the saying, "it takes a community to grow a child into an adult"?
It's true don't you think, your parents haven't taught you all your life skills, nor have you learnt them all on your own.


How is this relevant?

I can tell by the way you framed your question, you're not actively involved in much discussion or reading that can help you improve your game

So my suggestion to you would be to get involved in the community more, like you have here. Try to filter out the things that don't work for you and absorb and maintain the things that do.
 
h1seless

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Hello everyone,

Every time I start to try to build a bankroll I always keep getting bad beats and cannot make hands.

Any advice to get over the hump. It just seems losing is a habit and not just an occurance.

What is the optimal way to play poker? Aggressive,conservative?

I am sick and tired of losing constantly.
I have the same situation, no matter how much I play hands, no matter what kind of hands I open, I'm always weaker than my opponent, and when I have a hand my opponent never goes to bluff, it's the law of poker, it's all a hoax
 
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colbear

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Are you switching levels switching games or just losing at regular game
 
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rudy988

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Hello everyone,

Every time I start to try to build a bankroll I always keep getting bad beats and cannot make hands.

Any advice to get over the hump. It just seems losing is a habit and not just an occurance.

What is the optimal way to play poker? Aggressive,conservative?


I am sick and tired of losing constantly.

Make your bankroll stronger , or if you can't win the current limit (whatever you're playing) , move down the limit , and try to improve your game ;) Hope it helped
 
Lena M

Lena M

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Hello.
In such cases, when you lose, you need to take a break, just relax from the game. It helps me a lot. After such a rest, my game is much better. I focus more on the game process and allow fewer mistakes. Good luck.
 
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Smokewood

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sammy22

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Which poker books have you read?
I would suggest, since you posted in the tournament section, "Modern Tournament Poker" by Dan Harrington
https://www.amazon.com/Harrington-M...preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

Read it, play a tournament, read it again
Rinse and repeat as needed.



I want to get back into MTT’s after being away from the game for the last 4-5 years. I read the original Harrington books when they 1st came out over 10yrs ago, but I remember them being very good.
Would you suggest I re-read his original books or should I get his most recent book that you mentioned here?
 
kittykittykat

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I don't know if you play tournaments or ring games. I am a tournament player. My advise for tournament play, if you are losing a lot, tighten up your play, don't call a big bet on a draw no matter how many outs you have. Watch your position. Try not to risk your tournament life by calling an all-in bet without nuts. With patience you will find yourself at final tables.
 
hugh blair

hugh blair

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I don't know if you play tournaments or ring games. I am a tournament player. My advise for tournament play, if you are losing a lot, tighten up your play, don't call a big bet on a draw no matter how many outs you have. Watch your position. Try not to risk your tournament life by calling an all-in bet without nuts. With patience you will find yourself at final tables.



Hey all relate to this thread and do not know how many times I lost with nutsA AA preflop
Bnut straight flop losing to flush on turn or river Cnut flush unpaired board turn then bam paired river house for opponent nh gg bye bye 0000s all these hands played all in :hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

Quote
Try not to risk your tournament life by calling an all-in bet without nuts.
Agree with this statement but need to add without nuts on RIVER.:eek:
Good luck everybody:D
 
malakata19

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It is difficult to create a bankroll from scratch and on the other hand keep it is also difficult, there will always be badbeats and ups and downs and the key is to realize where we are at the right time. I think most of us make the mistake of playing at levels where we should not because we do not have enough funds and when we lose what little we have we must start again. The management of the bankroll is a question of discipline and not all of us achieve it so easily. Good luck at the tables !!!
 
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kasapcho

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part of the game - if u play correct u will wil long term
 
Ragequit

Ragequit

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Yeah more of the same. You've got to realise that losing happens almost as often as winning in Poker. It's staggering how close in frequency wins and losses are to each other. You also need to remember that this is a zero sum game and your losses are someone else's wins. Would you want to always win? If you say yes, then shouldn't your opponent enjoy the same privilege? If course! So therefore accept their success as much as your own, take the bad days as much as the good and have faith in the law of large numbers. R
 
h1seless

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Poker is a game for intelligent people, there are people who know how to predict the outcome, but there are those who see for sure that they are ahead and pour in the bankroll))
 
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RounderRob

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seems to me that when your bankroll surpasses your initial deposit the site crashes down on you to diminish it
 
Ragequit

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Mindset, mindset, mindset. All of these theories about rigging exist only in the mind of a depressed Poker player. There is no grand conspiracy against any player who deposits money. Money is the fuel which drives the Poker engine. If a poker site made sure certain players won more than others, then 1000s of players would quit the game. The Poker site would then lose millions in Rake and billions in Reputation. As soon as you put money into the pot in Poker it becomes quantised (like Schrödinger's Cat). It is now fuzzy money. You've both won it and lost it but you don't which one yet. You only know that good players win more often than bad ones. But you don't know which one you are yet. Or maybe you do, but you can never be sure. Can you? That's the point. Poker is Chaos. In all chaotic systems, anything can and does happen. Accept that you are a part of it and enjoy the ride that you signed up for.


R
 
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N

NBB

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Hello everyone,

Every time I start to try to build a bankroll I always keep getting bad beats and cannot make hands.

Any advice to get over the hump. It just seems losing is a habit and not just an occurance.

What is the optimal way to play poker? Aggressive,conservative?

I am sick and tired of losing constantly.
I have the perfect solution to you dilemma of “Always losing”
The solution is straight forward…………. “Just stop playing poker” …….. lol ………
Just a little humor to add to the forum for today’s posts
 
AizenFalck

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Great explanation, thanks for that, but what about playing tournaments, what are the odds of playing just once a week and win a big pot like for example winning the Sunday Million or the Sunday Storm at PS?
 
cskwin

cskwin

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Hello everyone,

Every time I start to try to build a bankroll I always keep getting bad beats and cannot make hands.

Any advice to get over the hump. It just seems losing is a habit and not just an occurance.

What is the optimal way to play poker? Aggressive,conservative?

I am sick and tired of losing constantly.
Taking a break will really helps. If you are a beginner you must focus on the following to improve,
- Kind of hands you loose
- Kind of players you played with?
- Type of game you played most ? - Tourney or cash game
- Try to learn the strategies of basics while playing.

If you have more experience and still getting bad streak, better to stay away for some time and refresh your mind. Hope that Helps.
 
walluyo

walluyo

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That's why we need a job besides playing poker...
 
D

Dash1234

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I've been playing on bovada and ignition casino and if you like to lose these are the site's for you the money and compliant's I have put into these two site and always lose there Texas hold'em site is the most pathetic I've ever played on the odds drastically don't match up you have the winning hand all the way through to you get to river to lose to some who had a shit hand going in if anyone played on one of the two sites know what I'm talking about it's a meager rip off I suggest to STAY AWAY from these sites
 
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