Should I fold a set of jacks after the flop?

[abwil2]

When short stacked JJ is not a calling hand. with 15bb's any hand is a waste of chips to just call with. 30 bb's maybe a limp and then u can fold if needed but id shove without thought to begin with with JJ and short stacked

 

[pcgnome]

LOL. We've already shot this dead horse. Are we going to drag it through the streets now?

 

[baudib1]

I've seen all-in pocket jacks get cracked too many times.

So if you see all-in pocket aces get cracked will you start calling with them too?
What exactly is your plan? You don't even seem to understand what you should be doing. You want to be able to fold JJ in case you get a bad board?

30 bb's maybe a limp

no

 

[pcgnome]

I used to limp in w/AA from early position sometimes looking for a re-raise though. That one used to work pretty good.

 

[pcgnome]

Would you have been upset if he had called pre if you had shoved?

It was only a free-roll.

 

[Arjonius]

It was only a free-roll.

This statement seems to suggest that you feel you should play this situation differently in a freeroll vs a buyin. Barring highly unusual circumstances, why should that matter?

 

[pcgnome]

It was a freeroll.
It didn't cost anything.
It wouldn't have hurt my bank-roll if I had tried something fancy and results oriented.
I was already in the $$$.
I could play the next one for free.
There will always be another free-roll.
My BR has been slightly improving lately - if I lose a buyin game,
I can get the money back by playing a free-roll.
I considered the all-in pre-flop, but it seemed kind-of boring and dull at the time.
If the guy with the KQ had folded after the all-in, Then I only get about 1600 chips.
If the board pairs after the flop, I am in the gold.
If there were over-cards after the flop, I could have easily folded.
No matter. Did I mention that it was a free game.
You guys are tilting me with your repetitive posts.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Shove pre.

 

[pcgnome]

LOLOL. Now we've come full circle from where we started at the beginning. Can we just get this thing over with now?

 

[BlueNowhere]

It was a freeroll.
It didn't cost anything.
It wouldn't have hurt my bank-roll if I had tried something fancy and results oriented.
I was already in the $$$.
I could play the next one for free.
There will always be another free-roll.
My BR has been slightly improving lately - if I lose a buyin game,
I can get the money back by playing a free-roll.
I considered the all-in pre-flop, but it seemed kind-of boring and dull at the time.
If the guy with the KQ had folded after the all-in, Then I only get about 1600 chips.
If the board pairs after the flop, I am in the gold.
If there were over-cards after the flop, I could have easily folded.
No matter. Did I mention that it was a free game.
You guys are tilting me with your repetitive posts.

So 52% of the time you don't flop a set and an overcard hits you fold? That is lolbad and I have no idea why you are still trying to justify this play and then say things like this and accuse people are being repititive when you keep posting more reasons for them to correct you on.

 

[Tammy]

It was a freeroll.
It didn't cost anything.
It wouldn't have hurt my bank-roll if I had tried something fancy and results oriented.
I was already in the $$$.
I could play the next one for free.
There will always be another free-roll.
My BR has been slightly improving lately - if I lose a buyin game,
I can get the money back by playing a free-roll.
I considered the all-in pre-flop, but it seemed kind-of boring and dull at the time.
If the guy with the KQ had folded after the all-in, Then I only get about 1600 chips.
If the board pairs after the flop, I am in the gold.
If there were over-cards after the flop, I could have easily folded.
No matter. Did I mention that it was a free game.
You guys are tilting me with your repetitive posts.

If that's how you really feel, why bother posting the hand for analysis?

 

[pcgnome]

So 52% of the time you don't flop a set and an overcard hits you fold? That is lolbad and I have no idea why you are still trying to justify this play and then say things like this and accuse people are being repititive when you keep posting more reasons for them to correct you on.

I don't know where you got the 52%. Anyways, I said over-card(s)[plural]
Right now, I am just killing time on the computer, because I can't leave the house or go anywhere until I get the go-ahead from my doctor.

 

[BlueNowhere]

52% is the chance of an overcard hitting and you not hitting a set. That means 52% of the time you planned on folding, that is bad.

 

[pcgnome]

52% is the chance of an overcard hitting and you not hitting a set. That means 52% of the time you planned on folding, that is bad.

If you guys think that I fold JJ 52% of the time post-flop, I'm okay with it.:top:

 

[BlueNowhere]

wtf are you on about? You said you plan on folding to an overcard and that means you fold 52% of the time. You say it like I give a **** how you play. It's no odds to me if you don't listen, although you'd be wise to take it as you've posted some horrible reasoning and you clearly only posted this thread because of the result. I think everyone who saw this thread put him on QK because like most donks you're not interested in the correct play but how to make ridiculous, results orientated play. You carry on being a losing player and I'll carry on being a winning player, that's fine by me.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

OK I've got it. Shove pre w/15 BB at the final table-In the money w/JJ.
This is thread getting to be like a old broken vinyl record, because you keep repeating yourselves. I've got it.

It was a freeroll.
It didn't cost anything.
It wouldn't have hurt my bank-roll if I had tried something fancy and results oriented.
I was already in the $$$.
I could play the next one for free.
There will always be another free-roll.
My BR has been slightly improving lately - if I lose a buyin game,
I can get the money back by playing a free-roll.
I considered the all-in pre-flop, but it seemed kind-of boring and dull at the time.
If the guy with the KQ had folded after the all-in, Then I only get about 1600 chips.
If the board pairs after the flop, I am in the gold.
If there were over-cards after the flop, I could have easily folded.
No matter. Did I mention that it was a free game.
You guys are tilting me with your repetitive posts.

People are repeating it because it's important.

Also it's not so much what you said, more like "you should almost never be flat calling preflop raises with 15BB". The hand you have, and the fact that you're at the final table and in the money and that it's a freeroll are pretty irrelevant and show a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of what is important in relatively short-stacked tournament play. If you'd mentioned being in position I could have accepted that as a defense (it would still be wrong because being in position with 15BBs isn't a huge advantage but it would have at least shown that you're thinking along the right lines), but instead you're dwelling on small, unimportant details and silly "if _____ then ____" and "HEY IT'S A FREEROLL WHO CARES RIGHT?" scenarios and missing the bigger picture - that bigger picture being that calling off such a large portion of your stack against two players with pretty wide ranges thus leading to the distinct possibility that you'll have no idea where you are postflop is just a bad idea in general.

Plus is "it's a freeroll" supposed to be a reason for not shoving pre? Because that's horribly wrong - if anything you should be more inclined to shove preflop here in a freeroll because you'll get looked up by hands you're ahead of/dominate far more often than in a tourney with any sort of entry fee.

Finally UTG+1's range for raising pre-flop and leading the flop assuming he's an average (freeroll) player is probably something like AA-99, AJ-KJ, and some random flush/combo draw hands with a possibility of QJ/88. KQ is one hand out of a whole host of hands he could have had, so if you really thought there was a huge chance he had KQ, well, you were either wrong at the time or are being results-oriented now.

 

[shinedown.45]

It all comes down to math, the numbers say you have to shove pre-flop as your "M" is a mere 5, and the shove/fold range is 10 or less and with JJ this was a push pre-flop.

Don't be upset with us, we're here to help you, you have been here long enough to know what we're about.

Hope the Doctor gives you the OK to get out of the house soon, sounds like your upset you can't leave the house so you're taking your frustrations out on those who are trying to help you.

 

[c9h13no3]

The problem seems to be that this is a pretty basic spot and if you have trouble with this you are likely spewing like a fire hydrant in other areas.

Seriously, if you can't get this spot, quit playing for money until you suck less.

 

[jazteck]

Here's the situation. I am at the FT & ITM on Carbon. There are 10 players left.
The ante is 50 blinds 200/400
I am in the cut-off w/6158 chips I am dealt
UTG+1 bets 867
UTG+3 calls
I call
Flop -
UTG+1 bets 2467
UTG+3 calls
What should I do here? I don't want to fold, but UTG+1 has about the same amount of chips as I do, and could very easily have a KQ. Even if he has a straight, I will still have 7 outs.

I remember a similar situation in a live game when I 1st starting playing hold-em.
I had a set after flop. The villain asked me how many chip I had, said he was all in, and that he had a flush. I had no clue as to how to make a decision, So I called hoping that I would get lucky.
I am just wondering if I played it right this time.

There is no right or wrong answer here. It's a coin flip. Come across this 10 times and call all of them, you''ll win 5 times. Spots like this...read the player and go with your gut.

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

Dude don't get so mad at people who are replying to your thread and questions. Otherwise don't post it, and i'm not positive but I think you can even delete it.

On another note what site are you playing freerolls on? Considering stack sizes and blinds at 200/400 while being at the final table it seems like a giveaway of money really..

 

[cardriverx]

It was a freeroll.
It didn't cost anything.
It wouldn't have hurt my bank-roll if I had tried something fancy and results oriented.
I was already in the $$$.
I could play the next one for free.
There will always be another free-roll.
My BR has been slightly improving lately - if I lose a buyin game,
I can get the money back by playing a free-roll.
I considered the all-in pre-flop, but it seemed kind-of boring and dull at the time.
If the guy with the KQ had folded after the all-in, Then I only get about 1600 chips.
If the board pairs after the flop, I am in the gold.
If there were over-cards after the flop, I could have easily folded.
No matter. Did I mention that it was a free game.
You guys are tilting me with your repetitive posts.

if its just a free game and you dont care why post it here?

 

[BlueNowhere]

There is no right or wrong answer here. It's a coin flip. Come across this 10 times and call all of them, you''ll win 5 times. Spots like this...read the player and go with your gut.

Lol, it's not even close to being a coin flip, read the various replies posted. Also even if it was a coinflip with dead money in pot it's a snap call

 

[wagon596]

Played in my 3rd live tourny today,,,Had pocket jackes ,, just limped in ,,flop came K,2,2 I bet 1,000 ,,,other player raises 2,000,,,I fold,,,now i wish I had shoved pre-flop...oh well, still learning...

 

[ph0n3_j4ck]

In this position I think you should just call and hope the board pairs up or shove it all in.

 

[pcgnome]

if its just a free game and you dont care why post it here?

I've been trying to kill this post. I've already said way back "I've got it! shove-pre!" It's really easy to remember. Yet this post lives on....