How we play with small stack. ADVICES

BogdanStark

BogdanStark

Visionary
Hey guys! This is good moment to talk about how we play with small stack in the tournament (doesn't meter freeroll or buy-in).

First moment: we want to double up, so sit and wait for the strong hand.
First mistake: even 66+ seems to us like a strong. With small pair we often call big raises from big stack guys and what we get? BAD BIT in the result. (big stacks can close straight with only 1 card, or get 2 better pairs then yours, and so on ...)
Firs advice:

- Ace heigh pocket hand better then little pair
- Wait for TT+ hand
- DON'T call raise, better be raiser! Wait when all before you folded, and make all-in
- Don't play any call. Be ready make all-in with you hand

Second moment: tilt after losing.
Second mistake: be sure, that you complied conditions of the first moment (read higher).
Second advice:

- Don't play all-in even with AK against chip-leader of the table. Trust me, he win with his 72o
- Don't puzzle if you lose with JJ+ hand (verify that all-players before you folded and you was raiser)

Third moment: before becoming small stack, try to avoid any trouble. Feel confident and don't male anything stupid moves. (I mean middle stage of tournament, when you was big stack and became small stack).
Third mistake: often you win strong can even huge stake in the middle stage. And with only one mistake you can lose half part of chips.
Third advice:

- If you lose half part of chips try to keep your mind cool. You have still fairly stack to play tight.
- If you lose half part of chips, try to change your game strategy for this moment. If you play more loose, play tight and vice verse.


So, I wait posts from you to know, how my article was important or not for you. Give me an answer about mistakes maybe I allowed.
 
E

erekelan

Rising Star
Thanks for a nice post. At the moment the third moment in your post is the weakest part of my game. Good inputs, I am working hard on it an improving.
 
BogdanStark

BogdanStark

Visionary
Thanks for a nice post. At the moment the third moment in your post is the weakest part of my game. Good inputs, I am working hard on it an improving.

I'am happy to be useful. I wish you good luck and congratulate for visit CardsChat =)
Try hard and you became nice poker player. Read, learn, write!
And little advice: if you lose some, maybe all your little bankroll, don't grieve! You'll can win some other freerolls and win more money.
 
milka1605

milka1605

Legend
Awards
2
Approximately so I can always do .Well with small deviations after an unsuccessful game, I sometimes worry. I do not agree with one sentence. (- If you lose half the chips, try to change your game plan at the moment. If you play more freely, playing tight and vice versa.) As you can play freely if you play tight before? I personally continue to play tight, and even become more cautious. If I lose even half of what is left it is almost a disaster.
 
MasterTur

MasterTur

Rock Star
Nice post BogdanStark, really helpfull.
Well I play only freerolls and micro, and sometimes I've lot of problems, because we have a lot of loose people on this tournaments.

Well.... I was in my bankroll with 3,30 dolars, playing only the 0,55 cents (the big and the hot), SnG 0,25 45p and freerolls. Never deposit on PS.
I play some tournaments and now I has 0,03cents :/

On this tournaments and with low bankroll is very hard to make some money, and I think I play correct.

First moment: I play very tight, because people will call with anything and you have, so i only play with AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, JJ, TT, some times depeding of my position I play AJ, ATs, KQs.

The other things I fold.

Sometimes I stay with 10-8BB and don't have a hand strong, so i need to shove some AT, A9, maybe KQ, JTs, 9Ts.

If I survive this early stage, in the middle I start to play more hands, normally in this stage people start to play more tight, and afraid and the crazy guys "all in" just down already.

So i play 66+ trying to get a set, i play the suited connectors, and try to steal and bluff sometimes.

In the bubble, I always play more agressive, trying to see who is folding everytime, and stealing the blinds, and defending the BB and SB.

When ITM in the first 2 levels (+/-) I play more tight because all this guys who survive the bubble, and got 10BB or less are going to go all in everytime, so I play more tight for dont compromise my stack play a bad hand. And according people go leaving, I gonna play more range of hands.

I don't know if that is the way to play this tournaments, because I'm not having a great result, sometimes I get a premiation and sometimes just lose for a bad beat.
 
BogdanStark

BogdanStark

Visionary
Nice post BogdanStark, really helpfull.
Well I play only freerolls and micro, and sometimes I've lot of problems, because we have a lot of loose people on this tournaments.

Well.... I was in my bankroll with 3,30 dolars, playing only the 0,55 cents (the big and the hot), SnG 0,25 45p and freerolls. Never deposit on PS.
I play some tournaments and now I has 0,03cents :/

On this tournaments and with low bankroll is very hard to make some money, and I think I play correct.

First moment: I play very tight, because people will call with anything and you have, so i only play with AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, JJ, TT, some times depeding of my position I play AJ, ATs, KQs.

The other things I fold.

Sometimes I stay with 10-8BB and don't have a hand strong, so i need to shove some AT, A9, maybe KQ, JTs, 9Ts.

If I survive this early stage, in the middle I start to play more hands, normally in this stage people start to play more tight, and afraid and the crazy guys "all in" just down already.

So i play 66+ trying to get a set, i play the suited connectors, and try to steal and bluff sometimes.

In the bubble, I always play more agressive, trying to see who is folding everytime, and stealing the blinds, and defending the BB and SB.

When ITM in the first 2 levels (+/-) I play more tight because all this guys who survive the bubble, and got 10BB or less are going to go all in everytime, so I play more tight for dont compromise my stack play a bad hand. And according people go leaving, I gonna play more range of hands.

I don't know if that is the way to play this tournaments, because I'm not having a great result, sometimes I get a premiation and sometimes just lose for a bad beat.


You know, I've been starting with the same problem, no money, no deposit...
But I find specials private freerolls at ALL poker clients I had know. I built special tournaments calendar at google calendar, in which recorded all the tournaments I played.

I never played buy-in tournaments at the beginning.
If you like poker stars, wait until you became a Freeroll Club member and start build bankroll. One more opportunity in PS is Weekly Freerolls, when you can win ticket to Saturday's and Sunday's nice cash tournament.
 
O

omote23

Rock Star
Nice post BogdanStark, really helpfull.
Well I play only freerolls and micro, and sometimes I've lot of problems, because we have a lot of loose people on this tournaments.

Well.... I was in my bankroll with 3,30 dolars, playing only the 0,55 cents (the big and the hot), SnG 0,25 45p and freerolls. Never deposit on PS.
I play some tournaments and now I has 0,03cents :/

On this tournaments and with low bankroll is very hard to make some money, and I think I play correct.

First moment: I play very tight, because people will call with anything and you have, so i only play with AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, JJ, TT, some times depeding of my position I play AJ, ATs, KQs.

The other things I fold.

Sometimes I stay with 10-8BB and don't have a hand strong, so i need to shove some AT, A9, maybe KQ, JTs, 9Ts.

If I survive this early stage, in the middle I start to play more hands, normally in this stage people start to play more tight, and afraid and the crazy guys "all in" just down already.

So i play 66+ trying to get a set, i play the suited connectors, and try to steal and bluff sometimes.

In the bubble, I always play more agressive, trying to see who is folding everytime, and stealing the blinds, and defending the BB and SB.

When ITM in the first 2 levels (+/-) I play more tight because all this guys who survive the bubble, and got 10BB or less are going to go all in everytime, so I play more tight for dont compromise my stack play a bad hand. And according people go leaving, I gonna play more range of hands.

I don't know if that is the way to play this tournaments, because I'm not having a great result, sometimes I get a premiation and sometimes just lose for a bad beat.

Actually, If you play pokerstars, try to play PSO open skill league, If you learn and use special strategy that only works on PSO open skill league, You can earn at least $0.50 per month. (and if you earned at least 20vpp on previous month, you can earn at least $2.50 xD!)

And today, Pokerstars 0.25 SnG is really scary now. Players' skill is significantly improved. (they even use Squeeze, Re-steal, Polarizing, Float etc...) Even Team pokerstars pro joins this tournament and massacre bad players like me.....
 
BogdanStark

BogdanStark

Visionary
Actually, If you play Pokerstars, try to play PSO open skill league, If you learn and use special strategy that only works on PSO open skill league, You can earn at least $0.50 per month. (and if you earned at least 20vpp on previous month, you can earn at least $2.50 xD!)

And today, Pokerstars 0.25 SnG is really scary now. Players' skill is significantly improved. (they even use Squeeze, Re-steal, Polarizing, Float etc...) Even Team pokerstars pro joins this tournament and massacre bad players like me.....

You know, I never played SnG, sooth to say I really bad in it. Ones I attempt play one SnG, but was beating very fast.
And didn't keep any enjoying you know...everything happens very quickly
but sometimes you can catch SnG with very tight players(((
So I think (IMHO) SnG are very very very unpredictable
 
O

omote23

Rock Star
You know, I never played SnG, sooth to say I really bad in it. Ones I attempt play one SnG, but was beating very fast.
And didn't keep any enjoying you know...everything happens very quickly
but sometimes you can catch SnG with very tight players(((
So I think (IMHO) SnG are very very very unpredictable
W.. wait.. I think Large field MTT is more unpredictable.
2~3k players, a lot of bingos, donks, regs, great players.. etc...
 
Stevan

Stevan

Visionary
Let's say that you have 800 and average stack is 3.5k.
You have only two ways to play your hand. Shove or fold.
It depends on the blinds aswell but not much you can do.
Sometimes if you have a bad day and get like A 7 and the blinds are eating you and you decide to fold, thinking you can get better cards. I think that it's mistake but we all think differently. I found myself most dangerous when playing short stack.
 
onondaga

onondaga

Ukraine
Community Guide
Awards
14
UA
how we play with small stakes? depends on tourney structure and where are we now. what i like in your post is that when you call (better raise) u must be ready to make all-in/ what i dont like (dissargee with you) when u say for waiting TT+/ and dont call all-in with chipLeader having AK, yes the short game must be more tighter but dont forget about agression! agression sometimes is better than patience! not everyone with short stake in the middle of the tourney will bluff you, :D so i believe when someone make re-raise or allin that he/she had a good hand (not including all-in which is = ~1-2.BB), and very often they, damn, bluff me :D About AK, i just like this hand and cant fold it/
 
CAMurray

CAMurray

CardsChat Elite
Awards
4
Hey guys! This is good moment to talk about how we play with small stack in the tournament (doesn't meter freeroll or buy-in).

First moment: we want to double up, so sit and wait for the strong hand.
First mistake: even 66+ seems to us like a strong. With small pair we often call big raises from big stack guys and what we get? BAD BIT in the result. (big stacks can close straight with only 1 card, or get 2 better pairs then yours, and so on ...)
Firs advice:

- Ace heigh pocket hand better then little pair
- Wait for TT+ hand
- DON'T call raise, better be raiser! Wait when all before you folded, and make all-in
- Don't play any call. Be ready make all-in with you hand

Second moment: tilt after losing.
Second mistake: be sure, that you complied conditions of the first moment (read higher).
Second advice:

- Don't play all-in even with AK against chip-leader of the table. Trust me, he win with his 72o
- Don't puzzle if you lose with JJ+ hand (verify that all-players before you folded and you was raiser)

Third moment: before becoming small stack, try to avoid any trouble. Feel confident and don't male anything stupid moves. (I mean middle stage of tournament, when you was big stack and became small stack).
Third mistake: often you win strong can even huge stake in the middle stage. And with only one mistake you can lose half part of chips.
Third advice:

- If you lose half part of chips try to keep your mind cool. You have still fairly stack to play tight.
- If you lose half part of chips, try to change your game strategy for this moment. If you play more loose, play tight and vice verse.


So, I wait posts from you to know, how my article was important or not for you. Give me an answer about mistakes maybe I allowed.

For me its all about never loosing my fold equity. I always look for read based opportunities preferably with isolated position. To be honest, at that point, the cards are secondary.
 
BogdanStark

BogdanStark

Visionary
You've made some good points, but



You lose a lot of credibility when you make statements like this.

Oh, you really believe yourself? So I recommended to you make a proportion. Count how many times you WIN with STRONG hand (AQs+, JJ+) and LOSE against cheap leader! Yes I made it 17/5 LOSE win!!!!! HoldemManager will help you!

I'am very upset while reading what did you write..."lose a lot of credibility" It's not fair.
 
Lucothefish

Lucothefish

Visionary
Oh, you really believe yourself? So I recommended to you make a proportion. Count how many times you WIN with STRONG hand (AQs+, JJ+) and LOSE against cheap leader! Yes I made it 17/5 LOSE win!!!!! HoldemManager will help you!

I'am very upset while reading what did you write..."lose a lot of credibility" It's not fair.
Your sample size is too small.

I did what you suggested. I used poker tracker 4.

Over a sample size of 50,000 hands, range of (JJ+, AQ+) only, only hands that were all in preflop, this gave me 570 hands.

Those 570 hands have won 61.95% of the time, with an ROI of +71.5%.

AK vs 72o is a 68% favourite. That means over a large sample AK will beat 72o 2/3 of the time. It is simply bad advice when you tell people "don't put your chips in as a 68% favourite against the chip leader, trust me". I dont want to sound too harsh here though because I agree with a lot of what you posted, but when you get a good hand, not even a great hand, and you're short stacked, you should be happy to push all in against any stack size.
 
BogdanStark

BogdanStark

Visionary
Your sample size is too small.

I did what you suggested. I used poker tracker 4.

Over a sample size of 50,000 hands, range of (JJ+, AQ+) only, only hands that were all in preflop, this gave me 570 hands.

Those 570 hands have won 61.95% of the time, with an ROI of +71.5%.

AK vs 72o is a 68% favourite. That means over a large sample AK will beat 72o 2/3 of the time. It is simply bad advice when you tell people "don't put your chips in as a 68% favourite against the chip leader, trust me". I dont want to sound too harsh here though because I agree with a lot of what you posted, but when you get a good hand, not even a great hand, and you're short stacked, you should be happy to push all in against any stack size.

Yes, I completely agree with you. Sample is to small. But I mean the fact of all-in preflop vs Cheap Leader (in situation when you want double up). So, this is not right take all your 570 hands from statistic (you need select manually those all-ins against cheap leaders).

Of cause push in this case could possible double up me and maybe this is only one way to continue tournament.

I shall accept your words about "not so successful" advice from my side because of small hands sample.

By the way, how did you think, are the same situations (when I want double up against cheap leader) depends on a series of misfortunes or its just a statistic?
 
Lucothefish

Lucothefish

Visionary
Yes, I completely agree with you. Sample is to small. But I mean the fact of all-in preflop vs Cheap Leader (in situation when you want double up). So, this is not right take all your 570 hands from statistic (you need select manually those all-ins against cheap leaders).

Of cause push in this case could possible double up me and maybe this is only one way to continue tournament.

I shall accept your words about "not so successful" advice from my side because of small hands sample.

By the way, how did you think, are the same situations (when I want double up against cheap leader) depends on a series of misfortunes or its just a statistic?
Yeah it would take too long to find hands where I'm both short stacked AND raising into the table CL. I started to look through but sorry, too much work

Actually, the whole thing about being chip leader is an interesting one. If you have two players in the final two, both of equal skill, and one of them has 75% of all chips in play, that person will win the tournament exactly 75% of the time. Being chip leader is an advantage all by itself :)

Your 17/5 is just unlucky, but the worst thing you can do is let it affect your ability to make the correct decisions at the table. To give you an extreme example, what if you pushed all in and lost with AA seven times in a row. Are you unlucky? Yes, very very unlucky! Does that mean you should start folding AA preflop? Of course not, your play was correct every single time :)

When you push all in with AK and get called by 72o, you should be happy because you are making money - even when you lose. So keep playing, and good luck at the tables lol
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Legend
Awards
6
this is ridiculous and should be considered for the 'rigtard' thread imo

(although it'd be great to see more players following such rubbish advice!)
 
BogdanStark

BogdanStark

Visionary
this is ridiculous and should be considered for the 'rigtard' thread imo

(although it'd be great to see more players following such rubbish advice!)

Very nice very nice!
Please, read above! "I shall accept your words about "not so successful" advice from my side because of small hands sample"

Better share your opinion than call mine - rubbish
It is absurd...
 
onondaga

onondaga

Ukraine
Community Guide
Awards
14
UA
My vision!

First moment: we want to double up, so sit and wait for the strong hand.
"what kind of strong hand do u mean? later u write not to call allin with AK, is AK not strong?"
First mistake: even 66+ seems to us like a strong.
"66+ is 77 - AA, for sure when im short i push allin with 99+, maybe its looking fishy but ill do it"

Firs advice:

- Ace heigh pocket hand better then little pair "if mean AK, AQ, AJ and AT, dont think A8 is better than 99"
- Wait for TT+ hand "i dont think u have time to wait.... and u can never get TT+"
- DON'T call raise, better be raiser! Wait when all before you folded, and make all-in "u can be raiser even when someone raise (re-raise) "
- Don't play any call. Be ready make all-in with you hand " I LIKE THIS!"

Second advice:

- Don't play all-in even with AK against chip-leader of the table. Trust me, he win with his 72o "thats nice hand, and i complitely dissagree with this advice"

Third moment: before becoming small stack, try to avoid any trouble. Feel confident and don't male anything stupid moves. (I mean middle stage of tournament, when you was big stack and became small stack).
"AA preflop 3bet, flop with A u can also lose to higher combination, every move pre/after flop can be stupid after river."

Third advice:

- If you lose half part of chips try to keep your mind cool. You have still fairly stack to play tight. "yes, tight-agressive"
 
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