Final Table with AA: What would you do?

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korbal29

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You are at the final table wsop, 4 players left including you. The 4 players have equal amounts of chips.
You are in the big blind , player 1 goes allin, player on the button goes allin and the player on small blind goes allin also.
You look : you have AA , What do you do?
 
4kingwildo

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You are at the final table WSOP, 4 players left including you. The 4 players have equal amounts of chips.
You are in the big blind , player 1 goes allin, player on the button goes allin and the player on small blind goes allin also.
You look : you have AA , What do you do?


Lil cymbal monkey in my head will start the parade same time. seriously, even it is a joke, what can I do? fold? that's just tiny rockets )
 
tazer

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I feel like it depends on what your goal is for the tournament. Say you fold and you can get heads up but you'd be a big underdog with chip stacks. If you shove as well and win you are in great shape to win the tournament.

Goal to win tournament = Shove/Call
Goal to money ladder = Fold
 
Alizona

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Interesting spot. :)

So let's see our options...
1. We fold. Unless there's a very odd (and very rare) 3-way chop, we are guaranteed to get 2nd place money, but we'll also have a 3-to-1 chip deficit against our heads-up opponent.
2. We call and win. Obviously we get 1st place money immediately.
3. We call and lose. Again, unless there's a very odd tied hand, the tournament will be over. One person will win 1st place money, while the other 3 players will split the combined 2nd, 3rd and 4th places monies equally... let's just say it will be more than 3rd place money was, but less than 2nd place money.

Given all these options, I think quite clearly we need to play the hand. We should have the most equity in this pot (duh LOL), and winning the hand ends the tournament. Losing the hand costs us some amount, but the worst we can do is get between 2nd and 3rd place money. If we fold, we might only get 2nd place money because there's no guarantee we will overcome the 3:1 chip deficit and win. Our best shot is right here and right now. Be brave and call. Good luck!! :D

P.S. Just my opinion here! I fully admit my analysis may be flawed but I'm calling.
 
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korbal29

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I have never folded AA preflop , but if there is a moment to do it and I honestly say it,is now.
AA facing 3 quality hands is not a guarantee win . Would I call and hope for the best? No way , I will fold and play against 3 to 1 disadvantage. I wait and shove with high value hand if I win we are even in chips.

PS : Thats me and from my lifetime tournament experience , I did overcome chips disadvantage many times and won tournaments :)
 
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korbal29

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I feel like it depends on what your goal is for the tournament. Say you fold and you can get heads up but you'd be a big underdog with chip stacks. If you shove as well and win you are in great shape to win the tournament.

Goal to win tournament = Shove/Call
Goal to money ladder = Fold
This is the world series of poker , unlike any other tournament so you are there not only for the money but also the glory and the prestige.
By the way in your comment you said (in great shape to win the tournamen) ,if you call and win : tournament is over :)
 
tazer

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This is the World series of poker , unlike any other tournament so you are there not only for the money but also the glory and the prestige.
By the way in your comment you said (in great shape to win the tournamen) ,if you call and win : tournament is over :)


My mind didn't read equal chips. I think I read similar stacks. So just assuming someone had someone else covered, vice versa, etc.. That's why I said great shape. Oops lol
 
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CSLysander

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This is the time to play the good hands when you can get them. This is also about glory, not money. You do not play that deep to say you folded pocket aces and lost because you got garbage the rest of the tournament.
 
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korbal29

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This is the time to play the good hands when you can get them. This is also about glory, not money. You do not play that deep to say you folded pocket aces and lost because you got garbage the rest of the tournament.


I dont agree with you. Just because I folded AA doesnt mean I lost the tournament. Any other tournament than the World series ,I will make instant call, but here I will fight but against the winner of the hand.
 
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CSLysander

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I dont agree with you. Just because I folded AA doesnt mean I lost the tournament. Any other tournament than the World series ,I will make instant call, but here I will fight but against the winner of the hand.


At this point, it would be the most positive EV play. Can you lose? Sure, but at this point you already will know what cards can induce an all in from who you are playing. You are going to have to either gamble with what you have or what you do not know is coming.
 
roger perkins

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Interesting spot. :)

So let's see our options...
1. We fold. Unless there's a very odd (and very rare) 3-way chop, we are guaranteed to get 2nd place money, but we'll also have a 3-to-1 chip deficit against our heads-up opponent.
2. We call and win. Obviously we get 1st place money immediately.
3. We call and lose. Again, unless there's a very odd tied hand, the tournament will be over. One person will win 1st place money, while the other 3 players will split the combined 2nd, 3rd and 4th places monies equally... let's just say it will be more than 3rd place money was, but less than 2nd place money.

Given all these options, I think quite clearly we need to play the hand. We should have the most equity in this pot (duh LOL), and winning the hand ends the tournament. Losing the hand costs us some amount, but the worst we can do is get between 2nd and 3rd place money. If we fold, we might only get 2nd place money because there's no guarantee we will overcome the 3:1 chip deficit and win. Our best shot is right here and right now. Be brave and call. Good luck!! :D

P.S. Just my opinion here! I fully admit my analysis may be flawed but I'm calling.
I was ready to fold but you made a great point and changed my mind. Since they all have the same amount of chips you either win the whole thing or split the money evenly. I think you are right its a no brainer. SHOVE IT IN.
 
Alex70793

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What a strange question, there is nothing to think about.
Of course I put all-in.
 
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korbal29

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I was ready to fold but you made a great point and changed my mind. Since they all have the same amount of chips you either win the whole thing or split the money evenly. I think you are right its a no brainer. SHOVE IT IN.
Split evenly ? why is that ? where do you get it?
 
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korbal29

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What a strange question, there is nothing to think about.
Of course I put all-in.
So you push all in and pray? Never seen AA lose in a heads up situtation ? Never mind against 3 other players holding quality hands , in the World series of poker.
Anyway ,this situation was proposed to the top poker players back in the 1990s by a poker magazine and the survey came back like 50%-50%.
Players that shoved seems like they didnt feel confident to be able to overcome 3 to 1 disadvantage in chips
 
ramdon p358

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It all depends on how they play. By betting all the chips preflop you will most likely have pairs in hand like KK, QQ or even AA. Call
 
Alex70793

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So you push all in and pray? Never seen AA lose in a heads up situtation ? Never mind against 3 other players holding quality hands , in the World series of poker.
Anyway ,this situation was proposed to the top poker players back in the 1990s by a poker magazine and the survey came back like 50%-50%.
Players that shoved seems like they didnt feel confident to be able to overcome 3 to 1 disadvantage in chips
A 50% chance of standing up against three opponents is a very good chance.
 
roger perkins

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Split evenly ? why is that ? where do you get it?
Meaning the 2nd 3rd and 4th place money would be pooled together and split evenly for the 3 players that lost. Being that they all had the same amount of chips when eliminated. That is also assuming that 2 or even 3 of the players did not have the same hand and won the pot. The first place money would not be split.
 
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karl coakley

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I would fold. This would end poorly for someone, wouldn't be me. AA doesn't do well against 3 other hands
 
Matt_Burns88

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I agree with the responses saying it depends what you're looking to get out of the game. Some people value the prestige of winning the WSOP and the bracelet, others would value the guaranteed money.


The likelihood is that at least 2 players will be eliminated after this hand. Either you will have lost, won, or have a 3:1 chip deficit.

I think I would consider folding if I felt a had a reasonable edge over the other opponents. A 3:1 chip lead is easily overturned in a few hands; a single double up means even stacks and then it's anyone's game. This is very much the lower variance route and, of course, means that you have locked up 2nd place money (provided there is not a split).

If I felt like the other players had a major advantage over me, I would call and take the chance. Yes, we're going to lose around 30% of the time, but if all our opponents have a significant edge over us, then we're going to finish 4th way more than 30% of the time anyway, so it makes calling the more profitable play.
 
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Sbrzz

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It means that the money from the second, third and fourth place would be grouped and divided equally by the 3 players who lost. They all had the same amount of chips when they were eliminated. This also assumes that 2 or even 3 of the players do not have the same hand and win the pot. First place money would not be divided.


For this reason, folding is better. Especially because pulling the pot is no guarantee that you will win the heads up.

And at least folding already has the value of second place guaranteed.
 
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Charbilkh

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You are at the final table WSOP, 4 players left including you. The 4 players have equal amounts of chips.
You are in the big blind , player 1 goes allin, player on the button goes allin and the player on small blind goes allin also.
You look : you have AA , What do you do?






I'll be glad if they are all in already its the best hand pair of aces
 
ACESOVEREZZZ

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Go ALl in

With pocket rockets and others going all in I would without a thought CALL -- Yes I know Aces do get beat often but all going all in odds are some have smaller pocket pairs at best. Get ready to Win with pocket rockets:D
 
rock0001

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i would insta call because most likely you will have more than 50% chances of winning the hand and thats a profitable call in the long run.
 
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korbal29

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For this reason, folding is better. Especially because pulling the pot is no guarantee that you will win the heads up.

And at least folding already has the value of second place guaranteed.
Finally someone figured out that the best option is to fold and not get caught in the AA hype 🙂
 
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SharkFinn

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Very interesting question. I did a rough EV calc on this and it seems that calling is the correct move in terms of EV of winnings.

I assumed that:
1. If you call you win 59% of the time. That's the equity of AA against 3 ranges of 77+, AQ+ according to Equilab.
2. If you fold and go heads up against a tripled up stack you'll go on to win 25% of the time. That's based on a 50% chance of successfully doubling up to even the stacks, and then 50% chance of going on to win from there.
3. Payout structure is 1 for fourth, 1.3 for third, 1.7 for second, 2.6 for first which I think is a typical structure for a large MTT.

Based on these assumptions the EV of calling is 8% higher than that of folding. Varying each of the assumptions in what I think are reasonable ranges, calling was always higher EV by between 5% and 18%.

If you keep the rest of the assumptions above the same, if you fold you would need to win 40% of the time against the tripled up opponent to match the EV of calling. I think that would be very difficult to do even if you felt you were much better than all three opponents.

So looks to me like calling is the correct option.
 
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