All in minus 1 chip.

[jordanbillie]

Hmmm, if there was only a way to last longer in an MTT without leaving myself with only 1 chip because I am so concerned with small pay jumps. But gosh, I guess there isn't. I guess the only way for me to try and move up the pay ladder as a short stack is to commit 99.9% of my stack and then fold. Those pay ladders sure are nice, though. But with antes, I guess I'm all-in the next hand. I better run out the clock on this hand and the next because I don't have any other options. Yup, this is the best strategy I can think of to try and move up the pay ladder for those extra coins that'll pad the BR nicely. Wow, a pay jump to .09 more? I'm sure glad I gave up 99.9% my stack to achieve that BR boost!

I'm taking back my apology as this is still a stupid strategy. If your concern is small pay jumps, you literally do not need commit 99.9% of your stack to get there.

But hey, what do I know right? If this works for you and you're happy holding onto that 1 chip, hoping for a mini pay jump, keep doing it. I'm sure your min-cash results are way better than mine will ever be.

I don't think anybody is advocating for folding the remaining 1 chip. The 1 chip strategy works when your opponent just calls your bet and if you lose you still have one chip left. Now I see why you so passionately disagree with the OP, I think you are slighlty misunderstanding the strategy. It's a rare thin spot, but in theory in could technically work.

 

[blix177]

Hmmm, if there was only a way to last longer in an MTT without leaving myself with only 1 chip because I am so concerned with small pay jumps. But gosh, I guess there isn't. I guess the only way for me to try and move up the pay ladder as a short stack is to commit 99.9% of my stack and then fold. Those pay ladders sure are nice, though. But with antes, I guess I'm all-in the next hand. I better run out the clock on this hand and the next because I don't have any other options. Yup, this is the best strategy I can think of to try and move up the pay ladder for those extra coins that'll pad the BR nicely. Wow, a pay jump to .09 more? I'm sure glad I gave up 99.9% my stack to achieve that BR boost!

I'm taking back my apology as this is still a stupid strategy. If your concern is small pay jumps, you literally do not need commit 99.9% of your stack to get there.

But hey, what do I know right? If this works for you and you're happy holding onto that 1 chip, hoping for a mini pay jump, keep doing it. I'm sure your min-cash results are way better than mine will ever be.

Think you need to look at pay jump relative to your buy-in and not actual amount.

The $6.60 $5k Mtt usually have it starting at $0.80 1-8th
The $33.00 $10K usually pay jump by $10. Or 1/3rd of the buy in.
The $27.50 $50k usually $2.50 pay jump 1/10th.
The $2.20 $8k usually jump $0.20 cents 1/10th

But right after the bubble on a deep field like the $2.20 4-5k players you usually get 2-3 pay jump the orbit after being in the money.

Will be in the anniversary million this weekend. Should be a 4000 player+ entry. I really like to get a extra $25-30 if it means just holding on to my hand for extra 1 minute off my time bank.

 

[Oxinthewater]

Hmmm, if there was only a way to last longer in an MTT without leaving myself with only 1 chip because I am so concerned with small pay jumps. But gosh, I guess there isn't. I guess the only way for me to try and move up the pay ladder as a short stack is to commit 99.9% of my stack and then fold. Those pay ladders sure are nice, though. But with antes, I guess I'm all-in the next hand. I better run out the clock on this hand and the next because I don't have any other options. Yup, this is the best strategy I can think of to try and move up the pay ladder for those extra coins that'll pad the BR nicely. Wow, a pay jump to .09 more? I'm sure glad I gave up 99.9% my stack to achieve that BR boost!

I'm taking back my apology as this is still a stupid strategy. If your concern is small pay jumps, you literally do not need commit 99.9% of your stack to get there.

But hey, what do I know right? If this works for you and you're happy holding onto that 1 chip, hoping for a mini pay jump, keep doing it. I'm sure your min-cash results are way better than mine will ever be.

I think you are confused with a different thread where somebody advocates leaving a bit behind and folding when theres another all in caller. This one does not involve folding, just running down the clock incase the hand is lost. There's virtually no trade off

 

[partz]

interesting strategy. i may try it sometime, see were it goes xD

 

[blix177]

It worked today. Was 139 remaining player left. Went all min minus a .08bb play the hand by using as much time as possible. Before the hand ended was 135th and made the pay jump.

 

[blix177]

Again trying to work the pay jump.

Went all in with AKs, left a few chips behind. Got called. Players pool at 119 pay jump at 117. This time it didn't work out was player 118. But the theory does work. Had I have an extra 15 seconds I would have been the 108-117 player pool. $2 extra on a $11 buyin is like 20% ROI for no risk.

 

[Poker_Mike]

This is a strategy I been using. And it looks like it could have helped a lot of players IN THE MONEY, going for a pay jump.

In a big field, 3000 players or so, lots of time a pay jump happen every 5-6 minutes. If you press all in and get called, you miss the opportunity to use your remaining time bank, milking the clock for the pay jump. If you go all in minus 1 chip, you get called you still can use your clock.

If you manage to out wait the other tables and get a free pay jump that is free money. On the low end that is free tournament fee, on the high end that is a 1/3 of a buy in.

For a lot of players that are right around the break even mark, this can push you into the green zone.

So, the only time I do this is with a very strong starting hand and I don't want to scare my opponents from calling. Maybe they are playing 5 tables and would auto-muck if my "all-in" sign flashed.

If I want to run down the clock to ladder-up then go ahead and run down the clock.

I have also done this by accident using the slider and I didn't slide the pointer all the way.

My worst result was intentionally doing this w AA and I lost my internet connection and lost the hand!!!

Good luck !

 

[Parsorandini]

Hmmm, if there was only a way to last longer in an MTT without leaving myself with only 1 chip because I am so concerned with small pay jumps. But gosh, I guess there isn't. I guess the only way for me to try and move up the pay ladder as a short stack is to commit 99.9% of my stack and then fold. Those pay ladders sure are nice, though. But with antes, I guess I'm all-in the next hand. I better run out the clock on this hand and the next because I don't have any other options. Yup, this is the best strategy I can think of to try and move up the pay ladder for those extra coins that'll pad the BR nicely. Wow, a pay jump to .09 more? I'm sure glad I gave up 99.9% my stack to achieve that BR boost!

I'm taking back my apology as this is still a stupid strategy. If your concern is small pay jumps, you literally do not need commit 99.9% of your stack to get there.

But hey, what do I know right? If this works for you and you're happy holding onto that 1 chip, hoping for a mini pay jump, keep doing it. I'm sure your min-cash results are way better than mine will ever be.

This might be the dumbest post I've seen in a long time, and you tried making the original poster look dumb too. Classic

 

[hugh blair]

It worked today. Was 139 remaining player left. Went all min minus a .08bb play the hand by using as much time as possible. Before the hand ended was 135th and made the pay jump.

While at the lower limits 0-$5 entry I rarely do this probably a leak still though that I need to correct at the higher limits I always use my time wisely,
Agree nice strategy every last dime and dollar profit must be squeezed from every game we play if do this a hundred or a thousand times it soon adds up good game.

 

[taurusix]

Hmmm, if there was only a way to last longer in an MTT without leaving myself with only 1 chip because I am so concerned with small pay jumps. But gosh, I guess there isn't. I guess the only way for me to try and move up the pay ladder as a short stack is to commit 99.9% of my stack and then fold. Those pay ladders sure are nice, though. But with antes, I guess I'm all-in the next hand. I better run out the clock on this hand and the next because I don't have any other options. Yup, this is the best strategy I can think of to try and move up the pay ladder for those extra coins that'll pad the BR nicely. Wow, a pay jump to .09 more? I'm sure glad I gave up 99.9% my stack to achieve that BR boost!

I'm taking back my apology as this is still a stupid strategy. If your concern is small pay jumps, you literally do not need commit 99.9% of your stack to get there.

But hey, what do I know right? If this works for you and you're happy holding onto that 1 chip, hoping for a mini pay jump, keep doing it. I'm sure your min-cash results are way better than mine will ever be.

I have to agree here since I dont see much value in this strategy either.
We cleared up that this strategy does not necessarily work for Hand-for-Hand scenario, and you are supposed to apply it in situations very close to next pay jump, correct me if wrong.
Well, firstly, if you are so close to the next pay jump, why don't you just skip/fold the hand and wait for next round when you secured upper payout level. Secondly, why can't you just use stalling spending full time bank before taking any action. You can keep updating the standings at the same time, and if you reach next pay jump meanwhile you shove, if not you fold.
The only thing this strategy does compared to simple stalling is - it wins several extra seconds that not necessarily guarantee you the next pay jump, since the less players remain in a tournament the longer it takes for them to be eliminated.

 

[KristaK]

hi hi!! :ciao:
yes i seen this done occasionally
desperation raise, entire stack less one chip
usually the player needs wager that remaining chip to remain in the pot?
other players remain in the action & do wager

i more often see very short stacked players run out all their time before a wager
to remain in tourney as long as possible hoping for a payjump

i puzzled see this when is hand for hand play, that helps in that situation?

 

[rmcmullen2003]

if you have 50,000 chips and you bet 49,999 leaving you with 1 chip wouldn't any decent player who is going to call 49,999 just raise to 50,000 to put you all-in especially if you are close to the next pay jump? The goal is to knock people out so why would anyone just call leaving you with one chip? It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Psyanide14]

I often see this done live as well. I’ve been watching several pokerstars championship lately and see players going almost all in nd using the clock and their “time” chips in hoping other players will bust and they can move up the money. Especially non professional players who got in on satellite or other means and an extra $5k means a lot.

 

[Bluffzone68]

if you have 50,000 chips and you bet 49,999 leaving you with 1 chip wouldn't any decent player who is going to call 49,999 just raise to 50,000 to put you all-in especially if you are close to the next pay jump? The goal is to knock people out so why would anyone just call leaving you with one chip? It makes absolutely no sense.

Hi
I agree completely with this logic.
I would push all in if I am the opponent.:heeeellll

 

[rmcmullen2003]

Hi
I agree completely with this logic.
I would push all in if I am the opponent.:heeeellll

Right... I mean I get milking the clock to get people knocked out to try to move up the pay ladder. But I just think there are better ways to go about it than jammin' your stack -1 chip, for instance, sit out til you get blinded out would be a better strategy in my opinion. If you are that short stacked you are worried about getting to the next pay level then you should be in a fold or shove situation anyway so why dick around for an extra 15 or so seconds...

 

[Oxinthewater]

I'm stunned by how many people are not getting this.

I have to agree here since I dont see much value in this strategy either.
We cleared up that this strategy does not necessarily work for Hand-for-Hand scenario, and you are supposed to apply it in situations very close to next pay jump, correct me if wrong.
Well, firstly, if you are so close to the next pay jump, why don't you just skip/fold the hand and wait for next round when you secured upper payout level. Secondly, why can't you just use stalling spending full time bank before taking any action. You can keep updating the standings at the same time, and if you reach next pay jump meanwhile you shove, if not you fold.
The only thing this strategy does compared to simple stalling is - it wins several extra seconds that not necessarily guarantee you the next pay jump, since the less players remain in a tournament the longer it takes for them to be eliminated.

You can't stall prior to the decision because the time bank will not trigger unless you have money invested into the pot. Investing money into the pot allows you to use your time bank

Hi
I agree completely with this logic.
I would push all in if I am the opponent.:heeeellll

Of course the opponent will often push all in - then you have invested into the pot and can use your timebank to call.

Right... I mean I get milking the clock to get people knocked out to try to move up the pay ladder. But I just think there are better ways to go about it than jammin' your stack -1 chip, for instance, sit out til you get blinded out would be a better strategy in my opinion. If you are that short stacked you are worried about getting to the next pay level then you should be in a fold or shove situation anyway so why dick around for an extra 15 or so seconds...

Getting blinded out is a terrible strategy as you forego any chance of finishing high in the tournament so the trade off is huge. Making a shove when it's correct to do (+ev, ICM taken into account), but using this trick to take your time (incase you lose) is simply making the correct call while taking the edge of the downside - there is no trade off, other than loss of timebank which you can rebuild.

Still, I shouldn't argue if others don't want to use this

 

[Luvepoker]

Interesting thought I guess. I have seen this a few time when I have played but if i have more chips I put them all in when I am playing the hand.

 

[blix177]

I'm stunned by how many people are not getting this.


You can't stall prior to the decision because the time bank will not trigger unless you have money invested into the pot. Investing money into the pot allows you to use your time bank


Of course the opponent will often push all in - then you have invested into the pot and can use your timebank to call.




Getting blinded out is a terrible strategy as you forego any chance of finishing high in the tournament so the trade off is huge. Making a shove when it's correct to do (+ev, ICM taken into account), but using this trick to take your time (incase you lose) is simply making the correct call while taking the edge of the downside - there is no trade off, other than loss of timebank which you can rebuild.

Still, I shouldn't argue if others don't want to use this

Thank you, sometimes I wonder is my English that poor that people just don't comprehend the idea!

 

[Zorba]

This might be the dumbest post I've seen in a long time, and you tried making the original poster look dumb too. Classic

His post is one of the only posts that make sense, he didn't try, he succeded. :top:

:bandit:

I have to agree here since I dont see much value in this strategy either.
We cleared up that this strategy does not necessarily work for Hand-for-Hand scenario, and you are supposed to apply it in situations very close to next pay jump, correct me if wrong.
Well, firstly, if you are so close to the next pay jump, why don't you just skip/fold the hand and wait for next round when you secured upper payout level. Secondly, why can't you just use stalling spending full time bank before taking any action. You can keep updating the standings at the same time, and if you reach next pay jump meanwhile you shove, if not you fold.
The only thing this strategy does compared to simple stalling is - it wins several extra seconds that not necessarily guarantee you the next pay jump, since the less players remain in a tournament the longer it takes for them to be eliminated.

That's because there is no value to it, I don't know about others, but I play to win, not bubble.

:bandit:

if you have 50,000 chips and you bet 49,999 leaving you with 1 chip wouldn't any decent player who is going to call 49,999 just raise to 50,000 to put you all-in especially if you are close to the next pay jump? The goal is to knock people out so why would anyone just call leaving you with one chip? It makes absolutely no sense.

I'm a shit player and I would.

:top:

I'm stunned by how many people are not getting this.

I'm stunned that anyone would think this would be profitable, sitting out that hand gives more chance to get to the next pay jump, using time bank with 1 chip remaining is ridiculous, sit out that hand and you still have your stack and time bank to take you to the next pay jump.

:dancing2:

 

[Poker_Mike]

I'm stunned by how many people are not getting this.

You can't stall prior to the decision because the time bank will not trigger unless you have money invested into the pot. Investing money into the pot allows you to use your time bank

Of course the opponent will often push all in - then you have invested into the pot and can use your timebank to call.

The Original Poster plays on ACR and yes you can run down your time bank without being in a hand.

So I don't see the advantage of waiting until you are in the hand to run down your timebank.

If you need the payjump then just run the clock down while you are waiting to fold preflop. There is not an "extra" timebank when you are in a hand. Your timebank is yours to use as you see fit - obviously.

One disadvantage to running down your timebank is that you won't have it to use in future hands if you really need 15 seconds to think about something.

Good luck !

 

[danydidi]

i have never understood that allin minus 1 chip

 

[jordanbillie]

Lol. I just had a guy do this in a 6 max PKO hyper. Obviously i raised the extra chip to get him allin for the bounty. Nice try bud!

 

[DTaboada]

Nice tip. I will try it. Never had thought by this point of view.

 

[mkdrummey]

Only ever done that in play money for a laugh. Surely if you have a few blinds you can achieve the exact same by playing the clock and limping, then playing the clock again if a player raises? If you don't have any stack left then you just play the clock down until the ante puts you all in.

Is your strategy of leaving one chip behind to play all in if another player raises? Leaving one chip back looks no stronger than shoving all in in the first place.

 

[rmcmullen2003]

Would it not make more sense to use your time bank all the way up pre-flop then make a min. raise then maybe your opponent calls. The flop comes and use all the time you can then check and your opponent bets, then you make a min. raise, he min. re-raises, you min. re-re-raise and so on using all the time you can on each turn? If you really want to milk the clock that seems a lot better strategy then shovin all but 1 chip in. The bottom line is milking time to place better/make more $$$ is not a new strategy. It is not a secret or something unique. No player is going to rush their turn so they make less money.