Ace King short stack shove?

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Fire_Womble

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I recently played a hand in a $0.55 buy-in knockout tournament on pokerstars. This hand occurs when we are already in the money and I've already made double my buy-in back from knockouts. Blinds: 500/1000 Ante: 150

UTG player with 160,000 chips raises to 2,500. Action folds round to me in late position, I look down at :as4: :kh4: and with only 17,000 chips behind I shove. I get called by the player on the button who has 27,000 and the big stack UTG folds. He shows AQo
:ad4:
Board comes:
:6s4::jc4::2c4::qs4::9d4:

He wins with a pair on the turn and I am out of the tournament, I realise I was a 75% favourite before the board ran out but what I would like to know is whether there is a better way to play AK/AQ in a short stack situation such as this? I always find myself shoving in these spots and I cant remember the last time I won the hand so much so I am starting to dread being dealt AK/AQ/AJ.

Any advice would be appreciated, cheers.
 
Last edited:
takinitSLEAZEE

takinitSLEAZEE

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Sorry about the beat. I wouldn't feel too bad since you were under 20 BB's. The shove was correct, imo. It just sux that the button turned the Q. It seems that the button would've re-raised if not shoved behind you, so it was off to the races. Keep on grinding away and don't sweat the small stuff. Oh yeah, congrats on the cash! :top:
 
X

xRanieri

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I recently played a hand in a $0.55 buy-in knockout tournament on pokerstars. This hand occurs when we are already in the money and I've already made double my buy-in back from knockouts. Blinds: 500/1000 Ante: 150

UTG player with 160,000 chips raises to 2,500. Action folds round to me in late position, I look down at :as4: :kh4: and with only 17,000 chips behind I shove. I get called by the player on the button who has 27,000 and the big stack UTG folds. He shows AQo
:ad4:
Board comes:
:6s4::jc4::2c4::qs4::9d4:

He wins with a pair on the turn and I am out of the tournament, I realise I was a 75% favourite before the board ran out but what I would like to know is whether there is a better way to play AK/AQ in a short stack situation such as this? I always find myself shoving in these spots and I cant remember the last time I won the hand so much so I am starting to dread being dealt AK/AQ/AJ.

Any advice would be appreciated, cheers.



Unlucky my friend. Yes you played correct. I don't play NLHE tournys too much, and don't know much about ICM but I think that particular situation is solved. If you're a tourny player I highly suggest programs like ICM calculators that help you find optimal strategies for stuff like this. Again, Idk much about NLHE tournys.
 
TheDude6622

TheDude6622

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You just have to remember, the odds are in your favor in this situation. The more times you go against AQ when you have AK, the more you should win. People do get lucky but you did make the right decision.
 
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Dark Army

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A lot of people are going to shove with AKos in all sorts of situations. So we can't really argue too much with your decision.

However....

Seeing that you had 17 BB's, I would have been tempted to call the 2500 and see a flop instead. Because it came down so dry, it stands to reason it completely missed your opponent who raised pre flop. You're shove may have had a better chance of winning post flop by repping Jacks. Of course, your opponent has tons of chips so he may have called anyway. Pre flop though, most people will call an all in with AQ especially against a short stack.

I'd rather call and see a flop. When you get below 10 BB's, it's fold everything until you get a shove worthy hand. You weren't quite to that point yet IMO.
 
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jbear54321

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I think that you made the right move by going all in. You were short stacked and had one of the best starting hands.
 
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Steve Deeble

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At that point based off your chip stack it was a necessary decision to push all-in.
 
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scubed

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I agree with the majority of the replies. AK is a shove in this spot.
 
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ekgbeat

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With your stack size, I think you played it fine, it was just a cooler. Sometime is like to mix in limp shoves to get more money in the pot. That play depends on how aggro players are and their stack size.
 
FIERROS

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You miss this time you will get them next time.
 
orchidra

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I recently played a hand in a $0.55 buy-in knockout tournament on pokerstars. This hand occurs when we are already in the money and I've already made double my buy-in back from knockouts. Blinds: 500/1000 Ante: 150

UTG player with 160,000 chips raises to 2,500. Action folds round to me in late position, I look down at :as4: :kh4: and with only 17,000 chips behind I shove. I get called by the player on the button who has 27,000 and the big stack UTG folds. He shows AQo
:ad4:
Board comes:
:6s4::jc4::2c4::qs4::9d4:

He wins with a pair on the turn and I am out of the tournament, I realise I was a 75% favourite before the board ran out but what I would like to know is whether there is a better way to play AK/AQ in a short stack situation such as this? I always find myself shoving in these spots and I cant remember the last time I won the hand so much so I am starting to dread being dealt AK/AQ/AJ.

Any advice would be appreciated, cheers.

Yes, bad luck.

While your shove was not a bad move, I would most probably have taken the approach mentioned by Dark Army. While it's always nice to see an AK, it's still a drawing hand. With 17 BB, you still had a few rounds before you needed to hit panic button (shove). I must add, I'm a very patient player (well, most of the time anyway).

A lot of people are going to shove with AKos in all sorts of situations. So we can't really argue too much with your decision.

However....

Seeing that you had 17 BB's, I would have been tempted to call the 2500 and see a flop instead. Because it came down so dry, it stands to reason it completely missed your opponent who raised pre flop. You're shove may have had a better chance of winning post flop by repping Jacks. Of course, your opponent has tons of chips so he may have called anyway. Pre flop though, most people will call an all in with AQ especially against a short stack.

I'd rather call and see a flop. When you get below 10 BB's, it's fold everything until you get a shove worthy hand. You weren't quite to that point yet IMO.
 
R1temp

R1temp

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You had a chance to win about 70%. You made the right decision.
 
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pineknob

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I don't know why you would do any other thing unless there a bunch of other people in the hand with a chance to move up in $$ if they were also short stacked.
 
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ph_il

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17 BBs effective, iso-jamming and going heads up w/ AK is the best option.

You don't want to 3bet because you have to call a shove (or you should) and you lose fold equity. You don't want to flat and see a cheap flop because you lose value on your hand when it hits and villain folds to a bet. You also put yourself in a tough spot and don't know where you are in the hand if villain c-bets.

Its best to just get it in and not even worry about it. You have good equity against a lot of hands.
 
Chief talking bull

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I think you did the right thing. It just didn't work out. If I had a nickel for every time I got beat by a three outer, I'd have a lot of nickels. Poker happens, you have to just keep grinding.
 
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brettlums

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Absolutely have to shove that hand there, an unfortunate run out but the play was correct either way
 
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Pickat

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I am not a great player but I hold my own and I would have played that hand the same way everytime . You just got unlucky . Better luck next time . I know it seems he variance is always against us but it is just variance and it evens out in the long run .
 
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UncleConRon

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My opinion

Did you notice the previous flops. If the previous flops had kings on it probably is a good idea to fold slick. Another way to tell is if you had slick before and won twice fold it the third time. A sixty percent win for slick is a good percentage.
 
RutgersOneTime

RutgersOneTime

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I think under 20 BB's this is the correct call. Unfortunately, this is gambling for you! Better luck next time!
 
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Dark Army

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.........You don't want to flat and see a cheap flop because you lose value on your hand when it hits and villain folds to a bet. You also put yourself in a tough spot and don't know where you are in the hand if villain c-bets.

So never call a raise with AK? Just go all in every time or else you lose value?

He had 17 BB's, not 10. And the BB still has to act. He's not quite at that moment of desperation where he really needs to risk it all.

Villain raised UTG which indicates a strong hand. If villain was in a late position it's easier to jam because the raise can be made from a wider range. But UTG?

Sure, you can go all in. Without seeing anyone else's cards, AK wins about 66% of the time. My preference in that spot with 17BB's is to see a flop. If I lose, I'm not much worse off.
 
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Deemajor44

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You definitely made the right call but hey thats poker yah cant win them all:burnout:
 
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bright019

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Moving all in is the best play here.
A standard re raise would be a mistake because it would be 5500 or more and that means you put in 1/3 of your stack and that makes you pot committed and therefor you have to move all in .

Flatting isn't a option i.m.o. First off all is the UTG opening range in this case with his big stack very wide. Most of the times you are ahead. Flatting can only give the players to come the right odds to call. The button would also have called in that case for sure and maybe even the BB would have called. Look at the flop and then wonder who would have had the best hand in a multiway pot. My guess is that probably UTG range connects best with the flop and if the BB would have stayed in the pot even more connects..

With going all in you got the result that you want , all in with the best hand and heads up , a 3 : 1 favorite. It proofs you made the right move and that's all that matters , the rest is of no importance anymore , that's just poker.
 
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bzvz222

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I agree, moving all in is the only option here.
 
0546474

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I think in the knockout tournament it was the right decision !!!.
 
fernandovr

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You had no way to do it differently, 20bb- AK is great a shove. I think any player would make the same move.
 
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