SNG. Calling for pot odds with a weak hand.

[Blazing_Saddler]

This is something i get in a mess with sometimes, I think I fold sometimes when i should call.

The example I am going to post is a typical situation, I am holding a weak hand, but one that if it hits hard could break one or more.

Stage #871922595 Tourney ID 1869807 Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $30 - 2007-08-26 18:58:39 (ET)
Table: 15879267 (real money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 1 - YEO9999 ($1840 in chips)
Seat 2 - STREETENDER ($1540 in chips)
Seat 4 - KID069 ($2790 in chips)
Seat 5 - MELODI ($1070 in chips)
Seat 6 - YANKEES421 ($1760 in chips)
YEO9999 - Posts small blind $15
STREETENDER - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to STREETENDER [10h 8s]
KID069 - Raises $90 to $90
MELODI - Calls $90
YANKEES421 - Folds
YEO9999 - Calls $75

I am in the big blind, and it costs me 60 to see a flop, for a pot of 300

This is just an example, I am intersted in this subject as a whole

 

[mikespyrs]

For what it is worth

I'm new to this but the big stack raised and the smallest stack called. The small blind called. You have 3 to compete with and if you are going for the straight draw you want to get in cheap. I think folding was the right call.

 

[ChuckTs]

In cash games with the same stacks, a call isn't so bad, but tourneys are different. Just because you get odds to call something doesn't mean you should.

Metagame, survival, and other factors have to come into play, and I'm folding this nearly all the time.

 

[oluaris]

i would fold in this situation.

if everyone else folded to me, i would call for the heads up. if i don't hit the flop hard, i'll fold.

 

[dj11]

5 to 1 odds, and you will need runner runner runner. But if you think about it in a different way, almost all hands start out needing runner runner runner.

From a purely pot odds POV, you aren't in that bad of shape to call. This was made possible by the call from YEO. The two of you against raiser, diminishes his big pair odds of winning ever so slightly.

The problem of course is position. You have to act, or get to act before raiser. So does SB. If you don't hit then it's easy to lay down.

I call based on the pot odds.

 

[Blazing_Saddler]

I am not really a cash game player, although I would like to be in the future, for now just working at something which I do reasonably well at, which is SNG

I nearly always fold in this situation, based on what was mentioned, Tournament survival, chips can be frittered away before you know it. I often lay down draws on the flop, even with easily the odds to call, because a couple of draws, and your chips are almost gone. I prefer to push my chips in if i think I have a good draw, and there is some chance the opponent will fold.

However, I was just checking if I was making a huge mistake, but it seems like most favour with a fold, although a call isn't the worst play in the world, guess it also comes down to being able to play the flop afterwards.

I actually called on this occasion, hit an 8, but folded anyway, as there was an Ace also, which out of those players there was bound to be at least one.

I do actually like to see a flop with 67 78 against certain players, some players play very passively on the flop, but can't let go of their big PP, when you hit a straight, I always look for these players who make micro bets at you, they are real good for a double up

 

[royalburrito24]

In tournaments and i see this type of situation i almost always call unless its a raise that is going to effect my stack greatly. I see this type of situation very often in the early stages of tournaments and I make the call because i know if I hit big, i will win a very large pot. The odds of me winning the hand might not neccessarily be very high, but hey, 5-1 pot odds isnt so bad

 

[Blazing_Saddler]

In tournaments and i see this type of situation i almost always call unless its a raise that is going to effect my stack greatly. I see this type of situation very often in the early stages of tournaments and I make the call because i know if I hit big, i will win a very large pot. The odds of me winning the hand might not neccessarily be very high, but hey, 5-1 pot odds isnt so bad

Yep, I am kind of caught in between both theorys. Fold and reserve chips for a better spot, Although where I play you get 1500 chips, and the blind structure is one of the better ones I have seen.

Or call, and hope to hit big and bust one or more players. I think what made me lean towards folding as a rule, is hitting the flop, but not hard enough to continue, but then getting drawn in on a draw, which i was getting the odds to play, but was crippling my stack. (Hope that makes sense )

That was when I was a weaker player, I am far better at getting away from hands now. I had a similar situation last night, Cost me 60 in to a pot of 360 I had 67. I called that one hit my 7 top pair, was able to let go when bet out without being over interested in fighting for it.

 

[Irexes]

I call in an MTT and fold most of the time in a SnG. In sit and gos you have so few bullets in your gun that they need to be conserved, and as said above position is hurting you here.

In an MTT with more play I'll call this pretty much everytime given the blinds and stacks as the implied odds are big and the impact on $ win rate of building a big stack early is huge. Easy to let go on the flop if you miss.