My next move?

[Egon Towst]

Ok, I like the concept of taking down the pot now. You're in a tournament situation and the safe route works for me.

Notice the phrase I`ve highlighted, guys. Remember this is an SNG. Some of us have talked about fixing the bet at a level which will encourage other players to chase draws against the odds.

With respect, that logic is more applicable to ring games. In an SNG, it could be disastrous if an opponent were to do that and hit his card.

I agree that Tim`s bet was too large, but I prefer the colour of Myx`s thinking on it.

 

[robwhufc]

Ok. Let's take that limping K, 9o was a mistake which I agree. It puts me in a tricky situation that I could lose a lot of chips. Wouldn't it be better to take the pot right there and avoid getting deeper into trouble than just make a pot size bet with the risk of being outdrawn? In other words, i made a preflop mistake. Now, I have a chance to take a small pot now and not take the chance to be outdrawn despite my preflop mistake. Last question, I swear.

Hope you dont think we're all ganging up on you but you've got some great players giving you good advice on this thread. I made a suggestion on another thread (one where I may have overstood tha mark - sorry, but i am trying to help), which was, next time you play, don't call - ever! Now your decisions are easy - is k9 good enough with 6 - 7 players left to act to commit a lot of chips too? Answer no (if you call, more often or not you ARE committing a lot of chips because you'll feel compelled to call future bets if you've got part of the flop or a draw). And when you do hit a flop hard, you've just GOT to make it pay - here's a stat - you'll hit 2 pair 2% of the time - you may not get a better hand than this, so 400 chips just isn't enough - you want 1,000 + so you'll need to stick your neck out a bit. Think of it this way - you've got a low risk opportunity to win 600, 800, 1,000 chips, by dangling a carrot - later on, if you still want to accumulate chips (which of course you must do to win a tournament) then you are going to be taking MUCH more risk in hands to win the same amount, and that doesn't make sense does it? And re your question about what happens if a jack flops?, i'll fire one back - what happens if it doesn't? (which of course is far more likely).

 

[t1riel]

Hope you dont think we're all ganging up on you...I'll fire one back - what happens if it doesn't? (which of course is far more likely).

Nope, not at all. I know everyone is giving me advice to help me. If a Jack doesn't come up, many other cards still concern me. For instance, a 10, a Queen, an 8 and an Ace. If neither of those come up, I'll check to see where the other players stand. I made my point on the flop, now it's their turn. If someone makes a decent bet, it might be a good chance to raise becuase it's a great chance I STILL have the best hand.

 

[robwhufc]

Nope, not at all. I know everyone is giving me advice to help me. If a Jack doesn't come up, many other cards still concern me. For instance, a 10, a Queen, an 8 and an Ace. If neither of those come up, I'll check to see where the other players stand. I made my point on the flop, now it's their turn. If someone makes a decent bet, it might be a good chance to raise becuase it's a great chance I STILL have the best hand.

Ace? Why? Because they may get a better 2 pair? 10? Because that would make trips? You cant be afraid of that if you've got 2 pair, you'll never play any hand! 8? an opponent will need 2 specific hands to beat you, so you cant be afraid of that. A jack or queen, yep, that's not good, but now you see why you dont limp in? You've got 8 cards to play against, much more likely someone's got the Q or J needed to complete straight - raise and get the J 8's to fold (though not neccesarily with K9!0.

 

[zebranky]

Nope, not at all. I know everyone is giving me advice to help me. If a Jack doesn't come up, many other cards still concern me. For instance, a 10, a Queen, an 8 and an Ace. If neither of those come up, I'll check to see where the other players stand. I made my point on the flop, now it's their turn. If someone makes a decent bet, it might be a good chance to raise becuase it's a great chance I STILL have the best hand.

Once again, you're UTG - checking is the last thing you ever want to do, unless you're planning to fold to any serious bet that is made. Given that getting to the flop may have been a mistake ( I'm not necessarily agreeing with that idea, but discussing why is a longer discussion than I want to try when it doesn't relate to this thread), you want to maximize your position by betting. A bet coming from an early position will get more respect than from the button, so use that. I think you have to bet out on the flop - there's shouly only be one hand that could beat you out there (QJ), because every other better hand should have raised preflop. I would have no problem making the pot-sized or better bet. You should take down the pot. A number of hands might call or min-raise you, but you're ahead of most of the likely ones (QJ should be the only hand that would raise a large amount).

If you see the turn, here's how I play it:
8 or lower, I'd say keep firing. Its extremely unlikely that anyone has turned a better hand.
9 - no contest - you've pretty much locked in the best hand, so keep betting, but don't push people out.
10, J, Q A - its check-fold time, unless you are going against someone who consitently tries to bluff/buy out the pot.
K - there's only one real hand to beat you (KT) -but if you figure out the odds that all 4 K's are out there, AND that the one person who has the other K has one of the 3 T's that breaks you... Its slim. Play just like the 9.

2 cents...

 

[joosebuck]

....Wouldn't it be better to take the pot right there and avoid getting deeper into trouble than just make a pot size bet with the risk of being outdrawn?..

you have to think of it like you are a casino laying them odds that they will hit their draws. sometimes they will. you have to deal with that, but leave the experience thinking you have, in poker reality, gained. then you make a note that they draw against proper odds, and the other 2-3 times their draws miss you gain in poker EV & also in chipstack. you cant be afraid to let them draw, that's what you want. you cant win every pot with your AA over someone's KK on an underboard

 

[joosebuck]

the reason you fold this, is because if you get raised by someone that limped AK or AA, you don't really know where you stand. 2 pair is a tricky hand, and one that I have lost tons of money on in the past. play them fast - but dont be afraid to drop them (especially when the board pairs and/or doesnt help you.)